mitchhamilton Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 reading sabbat of the witch has really pushed my patience over the edge with the genre. like god, they take forever to confess and stuff. its so tip toeing and the same. "What is this feeling? Just thinking of him makes my heart pound." it can still be cute at times but when it just drags on like it has its just tiring. really makes me wish for a mature approach to romance in my vns. both parties are experienced in life and dont get so easily flustered by all that high school crap! but noooooo, they have to appeal to the younger generation to instill an ideal into their heads to procreate since their birthrates are declining! WELL MAYBE IF YOU FIXED THE INSANE WORK HOURS YOUR PEOPLE HAVE YOU WOULDNT BE IN THIS SITUATION, JAPAN!!!! Anyways, thats my rant over, felt like voicing that thought so i did. what are yours? Ramaladni 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 not same, get out boomer Ramaladni, mitchhamilton and DarkZedge 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventuringAtelier Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Well, the market has seen a lot of those, and everyone's mileage varies. As for mine, I'm ok with high school romance just as long as it's not blatantly done for the sake of fanservice and wish fulfillment. VNs are a story-telling medium after all, so a good romance narrative is a given. mitchhamilton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDerpingheimer III Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 it's part of an industrywide plot to undermine 57th prime minister of japan shinzo abe Ramaladni and mitchhamilton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, mitchhamilton said: reading sabbat of the witch has really pushed my patience over the edge with the genre. like god, they take forever to confess and stuff. its so tip toeing and the same. "What is this feeling? Just thinking of him makes my heart pound." it can still be cute at times but when it just drags on like it has its just tiring. really makes me wish for a mature approach to romance in my vns. both parties are experienced in life and dont get so easily flustered by all that high school crap! but noooooo, they have to appeal to the younger generation to instill an ideal into their heads to procreate since their birthrates are declining! WELL MAYBE IF YOU FIXED THE INSANE WORK HOURS YOUR PEOPLE HAVE YOU WOULDNT BE IN THIS SITUATION, JAPAN!!!! Anyways, thats my rant over, felt like voicing that thought so i did. what are yours? Romance is a sign of immaturity, lol. More seriously, you've just repeated the scream of about 80% of all heavy VN addicts (those who have passed 100 played, at the least) in the US... everybody kind of wants the high school settings and high school romance to sort of fall by the wayside for a while. Unfortunately, most JVN companies make most of their money off this type of VN. It is only recently that the market for high school sol has begun to slump enough that the fundamentally conservative Japanese industry began to take notice. You can see this in the lower overall numbers of releases over there as well as the increase in attempts to make games that go past just providing the fake high school romance experience. The breakdown in traditional methods of finding a marriage partner in Japan (arranged marriages, omiai, etc) and the rise of romantic marriages in Japan is one of the prime reasons for the collapse of the birthrate. Romance in marriage was a concept that was virtually nonexistent in Japanese culture until the twentieth century, and even now, marriage meetings/omiai (parents arranging for their children to meet and see if they are compatible) are pretty common in Japan. There is a belief that 'romance' in the sense we think of it, only really happens in high school and the early twenties. Edit: The other reason for the fall of the birthrate is an increasing number of younger people just thinking they can't afford to have kids. mitchhamilton and Templarseeker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventuringAtelier Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Clephas said: More seriously, you've just repeated the scream of about 80% of all heavy VN addicts (those who have passed 100 played, at the least) in the US... everybody kind of wants the high school settings and high school romance to sort of fall by the wayside for a while. Unfortunately, most JVN companies make most of their money off this type of VN. It is only recently that the market for high school sol has begun to slump enough that the fundamentally conservative Japanese industry began to take notice. You can see this in the lower overall numbers of releases over there as well as the increase in attempts to make games that go past just providing the fake high school romance experience. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard from some sources that the reason there are a lot of high school settings in Japanese media is because they see it as the most nostalgic part of life that they unfortunately cannot replicate once they're an adult and graduated from college/university. Is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkZedge Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) I agree with the sentiment, I stopped reading teen based romance vns because of that. in all honesty it takes forever and it's filled with tons of pointless banter that comes off as filler and tires the reader out. Edited February 24, 2020 by DarkZedge Dreamysyu and mitchhamilton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, AdventuringAtelier said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard from some sources that the reason there are a lot of high school settings in Japanese media is because they see it as the most nostalgic part of life that they unfortunately cannot replicate once they're an adult and graduated from college/university. Is this true? The height of SOL sales in JVNs was 2008-2015. Since then, there has been a gradual decline in the numbers of such games produced, their sales, and their quality. This is due to a change in demographics as well as changes in the average consumer's financial situation. The increase in the sales' tax has also induced otakus to be more careful about which games they buy this last year or so (though this is a marginal effect overall), meaning that the more borderline SOL-only companies have gone silent or are producing only slowly with contractor employees only. Companies that have a more varied lineup seem to be doing fine, but the companies that only do SOL high school romance aren't doing well. Edit: As a side-note, more and more, you have companies with no real writing talent that try to make plotge or add plot to their SOL games... and it tends to be wince-worthy. Edit2:... because they don't follow through. AdventuringAtelier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onorub Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 I hilariously ended up getting more into the "high-school-romance-genre" after going through the Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side series and knowing the struggle of saving up money for a yukata or patiently waiting for a flea market sale in order to get nice clothing for cheap, so every time a moege girl shows up in a yukata or in nice casual clothing for a date i go all "YEAH YOU GO GIRL". mitchhamilton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoro Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Maybe you should read NTR or vns with scat to get a fresh breath of air. mitchhamilton and Fiddle 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchhamilton Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, kokoro said: Maybe you should read NTR or vns with scat to get a fresh breath of air. im gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahu157 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 3 hours ago, DarkZedge said: I agree with the sentiment, I stopped reading teen based romance vns because of that. in all honesty it takes forever and it's filled with tons of pointless banter that comes off as filler and tires the reader out. Perhaps you could say DarkZedge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkZedge Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 31 minutes ago, tahu157 said: Perhaps you could say Perhaps.....perhaps I could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GXOALMD Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 In my experience with VNs, romance is one of two things that many VN writers think they can do well but actually they're shit at (the other being foreshadowing). Scrolling through my VN list, the only instances of good romance on my list are Sachi and Michiru's after stories in Grisaia no Meikyuu and Mashiro's route in Aokana. And honestly none of those are stellar examples, they just happen to stand out against a massive backdrop of mediocrity and trash. For me personally, I like high school settings because (despite being nothing like actual high school) they're immediately understandable and allow my focus to be entirely on the characters and story. That said, that main advantage is also it's main weakness as it generally doesn't work as a compelling setting and therefore is a bad choice if you want a novel where the setting plays a big role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, GXOALMD said: In my experience with VNs, romance is one of two things that many VN writers think they can do well but actually they're shit at (the other being foreshadowing). If I may ask, what is it you're looking for in romance stories and do you have examples of it done well even outside VNs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GXOALMD Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said: If I may ask, what is it you're looking for in romance stories and do you have examples of it done well even outside VNs? That's a bit tricky as I actually don't tend to look for romance these days. I also can't really pin down exactly what does or doesn't make for good romance. Looking for examples from other media, the first thing that comes to mind is Toradora (thank you other thread on this site for bringing that to the front of my mind.) For the most part, I found the romance in books to be generally more compelling than in VNs, though it's been a while since I read a regular book and any example I have from those may or may not actually hold up with me today. One more unusual example I have is the TV show Chuck; while it didn't contain many romance scenes, the ones it had tended to just work so well. I also perhaps should specify that I think many VNs tell love stories well and it is specifically the romance aspects of those stories that VNs tend to fall short on. Mr Poltroon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, GXOALMD said: That's a bit tricky as I actually don't tend to look for romance these days. I also can't really pin down exactly what does or doesn't make for good romance. Looking for examples from other media, the first thing that comes to mind is Toradora (thank you other thread on this site for bringing that to the front of my mind.) For the most part, I found the romance in books to be generally more compelling than in VNs, though it's been a while since I read a regular book and any example I have from those may or may not actually hold up with me today. One more unusual example I have is the TV show Chuck; while it didn't contain many romance scenes, the ones it had tended to just work so well. I also perhaps should specify that I think many VNs tell love stories well and it is specifically the romance aspects of those stories that VNs tend to fall short on. I see, thank you. I'm surprised to hear about Chuck, since its one of like 5 or so non-animated TV shows I've ever watched, so it's quite the coincidence to hear about it here of all places. Unfortunately, I do not recall it well enough to agree or disagree with the assessment. Toradora's also a really curious one because while I love the characters, I heavily dislike the plot (I don't think the attraction between the two leads was natural and find that others imposed their views on them in that matter. Especially in Ryuuji's case) and think that most events within were melodramatic, which I almost always dislike. (I was going to link a couple of threads with romance manga and anime to see if you like any of them but I've bugged you enough. Thanks.) mitchhamilton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GXOALMD Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said: I see, thank you. I'm surprised to hear about Chuck, since its one of like 5 or so non-animated TV shows I've ever watched, so it's quite the coincidence to hear about it here of all places. Unfortunately, I do not recall it well enough to agree or disagree with the assessment. Toradora's also a really curious one because while I love the characters, I heavily dislike the plot (I don't think the attraction between the two leads was natural and find that others imposed their views on them in that matter. Especially in Ryuuji's case) and think that most events within were melodramatic, which I almost always dislike. (I was going to link a couple of threads with romance manga and anime to see if you like any of them but I've bugged you enough. Thanks.) Wow, you're like the ~3rd person I've ever met who's watched Chuck. As for Toradora I do want to say that I think the melodrama worked in it as at that age things tend to feel far more significant than they actually are, especially when it comes to emotions. Feel free to link those threads, but I'm pretty new to anime and I've basically not read any manga, so it's distinctly possible I won't be able to speak to any of it. Mr Poltroon and Dreamysyu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchhamilton Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 17 hours ago, Mr Poltroon said: I see, thank you. I'm surprised to hear about Chuck, since its one of like 5 or so non-animated TV shows I've ever watched, so it's quite the coincidence to hear about it here of all places. Unfortunately, I do not recall it well enough to agree or disagree with the assessment. Toradora's also a really curious one because while I love the characters, I heavily dislike the plot (I don't think the attraction between the two leads was natural and find that others imposed their views on them in that matter. Especially in Ryuuji's case) and think that most events within were melodramatic, which I almost always dislike. (I was going to link a couple of threads with romance manga and anime to see if you like any of them but I've bugged you enough. Thanks.) Whaaaaaaaat? What about the part where they had a huge fight in the classroom with weapons that ended with both parties coming out bloodied? that wasn't natural for you!? Mr Poltroon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruberick Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Spice and Wolf has my favourite couple and best portrayal of romance and love not only in anime/light novel (Both are great), but in all of the media I've ever seen. Nodame Cantabile is also pretty good, Kids on the Slope is very organic and genuine and Chihayafuru has less focus on it, but really great characters. All of those would make my top 50 Anime ever. I liked toradora, but also less for the romance and more for the characters and humour. On the topic of High School VNs: I try to mix it up and read High school stuff only with a considerable gap inbetween. (At least when the school and typical school tropes make a lot of the VNs read time) There are some that I genuinely like and recommend, like Chrono Clock and Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai, but a lot of them feel lazy, tired, repetitive... mitchhamilton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventuringAtelier Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 33 minutes ago, Ruberick said: Spice and Wolf has my favourite couple and best portrayal of romance and love not only in anime/light novel (Both are great), but in all of the media I've ever seen. Nodame Cantabile is also pretty good, Kids on the Slope is very organic and genuine and Chihayafuru has less focus on it, but really great characters. All of those would make my top 50 Anime ever. I liked toradora, but also less for the romance and more for the characters and humour. Was this intended for this thread? Silvz and mitchhamilton 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormwolf Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Welcome to the club. With both anime and vn's majorly featuring high schools it's no small wonder people get sick of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialScrolls Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I prefer my romances peppered into a larger narrative. For instance, the blossoming romance in Spoiler Steins;Gate was really adorable and endearing. Now, a game that's straight up "high school romance" as a main plot I think I'd have difficulty with. And I'm surely not a member of the target audience, being twice the age of a high school senior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormwolf Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, ImperialScrolls said: I prefer my romances peppered into a larger narrative. For instance, the blossoming romance in Hide contents Steins;Gate was really adorable and endearing. Now, a game that's straight up "high school romance" as a main plot I think I'd have difficulty with. And I'm surely not a member of the target audience, being twice the age of a high school senior. Roots;double is a good one also is a very good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvz Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 41 minutes ago, ImperialScrolls said: Now, a game that's straight up "high school romance" as a main plot I think I'd have difficulty with. And I'm surely not a member of the target audience, being twice the age of a high school senior. The older someone gets, they get closer to the target audience of these vns GXOALMD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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