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Posted (edited)

I finished G senjou no Mao now. But ....

Spoiler

Question: What is the name of Usami's Daughter in the Epilogue of G-senjou no Mao?
when Usami tells Kyousuke the name of their Daughter the VN ended without displaying her name. Anybody knows it by chance? Kindly Relay it here if Possible.

 

Edited by Dergonu
Don't put spoilers in the title
  • Dergonu changed the title to G-Senjou no Mao question (Spoilers)
Posted

I just want to know, am I the only person who hated that complete asspull of a "plot twist" in G-Senjou no Maou? 

Spoiler

Never (from what I remember) are we ever told that Kyousuke has a brother or siblings. Then literally right before the "twist" we are given an info dump about how Kyousuke has this brother that the story never bothered telling us about even though he plays a significant role in the plot. They didn't even bother to lazily foreshadow it.

Literally this breaks the very first rule of Knox's rules for Mystery stories: "The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow." There are other reasons why I think G-Senjou no Maou is a crappy VN, but this is the factor that has always pissed me off the most. Mostly because I rarely see people talk about this very obvious and significant oversight. At least the soundtrack is good, was probably the only thing that kept me engaged enough to finish the VN... 

Posted
3 hours ago, Zalor said:

I just want to know, am I the only person who hated that complete asspull of a "plot twist" in G-Senjou no Maou? 

  Hide contents

Never (from what I remember) are we ever told that Kyousuke has a brother or siblings. Then literally right before the "twist" we are given an info dump about how Kyousuke has this brother that the story never bothered telling us about even though he plays a significant role in the plot. They didn't even bother to lazily foreshadow it.

Literally this breaks the very first rule of Knox's rules for Mystery stories: "The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow." There are other reasons why I think G-Senjou no Maou is a crappy VN, but this is the factor that has always pissed me off the most. Mostly because I rarely see people talk about this very obvious and significant oversight. At least the soundtrack is good, was probably the only thing that kept me engaged enough to finish the VN... 

Spoiler

The funny part is that I kind of predicted the twist because I didn't believe that the authors were skillful enough to write a good conclusion if the twist didn't happen. 🙂 Like, I literally thought: "Don't tell me that the MC has a twin brother or something?"

Yeah, it was a pretty stupid twist.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

There is no rule saying that someone HAS to follow someone elses ruleset of how mysteries should be. But i agree that it was badly handled.

It's not about following other's rules or not, it's about a belief/mindset ("To be able to create a good mystery, this should be done"). If the nature/object of the mystery greatly bends toward "who is it", there are different possibilities (for example having multiple strong candidates) but an asspull just before the twist clearly is bad writing...

There is no problem in writing about pink elephants suddenly appearing as long as it's well explained in due time (and/or foreshadowed) and it's coherent with the settings.

Posted
11 hours ago, Zalor said:

I just want to know, am I the only person who hated that complete asspull of a "plot twist" in G-Senjou no Maou? 

  Hide contents

Never (from what I remember) are we ever told that Kyousuke has a brother or siblings. Then literally right before the "twist" we are given an info dump about how Kyousuke has this brother that the story never bothered telling us about even though he plays a significant role in the plot. They didn't even bother to lazily foreshadow it.

Literally this breaks the very first rule of Knox's rules for Mystery stories: "The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow." There are other reasons why I think G-Senjou no Maou is a crappy VN, but this is the factor that has always pissed me off the most. Mostly because I rarely see people talk about this very obvious and significant oversight. At least the soundtrack is good, was probably the only thing that kept me engaged enough to finish the VN... 

Spoiler

Well I kinda predicted when Kyouhei's death mystery (He iz a genius too) and when Usami was sure that Kyousuke can't be Mao. I was expecting a showdown between kyousuke and Harumi from the start of VN. I Pretty much got disappointed too.

 

Posted
8 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:
  Hide contents

The funny part is that I kind of predicted the twist because I didn't believe that the authors were skillful enough to write a good conclusion if the twist didn't happen. 🙂 Like, I literally thought: "Don't tell me that the MC has a twin brother or something?"

Yeah, it was a pretty stupid twist.

 

Spoiler

 

LMAO That twin brother part got me! 

 

 

Posted
On 12/15/2021 at 5:04 AM, Chronopolis said:

bruh no spoilers in the thread title. should call it G-senjou no maou ending question or something

edit: to answer your question, I don't think there's an official answer. Some JP person guessed 春菜 (haruna), as it's similiar to usami haru.

Thanks for Answering!
Yeah I will avoid it from Hereon. 

Posted
21 hours ago, Bredan said:

It's not about following other's rules or not, it's about a belief/mindset ("To be able to create a good mystery, this should be done"). If the nature/object of the mystery greatly bends toward "who is it", there are different possibilities (for example having multiple strong candidates) but an asspull just before the twist clearly is bad writing...

There is no problem in writing about pink elephants suddenly appearing as long as it's well explained in due time (and/or foreshadowed) and it's coherent with the settings.

I don't even think plot elements and twists being properly explained or foreshadowed is that important as long they are consistent with what a story attempts to communicate. In a conventional whodunnit a big part of the enjoyment comes from the idea that the audience is given enough clues to figure out the solution themselves, so asspull twists are a complete no go. Other types of stories have different aims though, so there doesn't have to be the same degree of consistency on a purely logical level but rather in terms of ideas/mood/themes and so on. The twist at the end of Planet of the Apes (which you probably know so I don't even need to spoil it here) seems like an asspull when your only criterion for a good twist is "could I have figured it out on my own". It still is a great twist though.

In the case of G-senjou no Maou I'd argue

Spoiler

Maou being Kyousuke's (twin? I don't remember) brother actually makes sense for Kyousuke's character arc: At the beginning of the plot he uses his wits only for his own gain. Then he meets someone who manages to constantly one-up him. Plot twist: this someone his own mirror image, only with a proper agenda. Only once he finds something actually worth fighting for (love) is he able win. I left out the post credit stuff but I think you get the idea.

There's a twist to this post as well: Even though I spent the post so far defending G-senjou no Maou, I don't like it that much. It managed to impress me when I read it when I was new to VNs as a medium but my admiration has cooled down a lot since then. My main gripe is about the VN being kind of lazy and not taking its audience seriously enough. Many of the battle-of-wits moments are convoluted rather than actually clever, and the power of love (yes, it's as stupid as it sounds) doesn't give Kyousuke a new perspective that helps him outsmart his opponent, it just happens to give him the superhuman strength and stamina to beat the bad guy. If it was at least believable cool-headed and cynical Kyousuke would immediately turn into a passionate love-monster that runs up a thirty five story staircase with a broken leg or whatever after one formerly repressed flashback.

 

Posted (edited)
On 12/17/2021 at 9:30 PM, alpacaman said:

Other types of stories have different aims though, so there doesn't have to be the same degree of consistency on a purely logical level but rather in terms of ideas/mood/themes and so on. The twist at the end of Planet of the Apes (which you probably know so I don't even need to spoil it here) seems like an asspull when your only criterion for a good twist is "could I have figured it out on my own". It still is a great twist though.

To me, the fact that the twist of Planet of the Apes is OK has nothing to do with the 'type of story' it is. It is OK because the narration never had any reason to speak of or even come close to speak of the ever remote possibility that this could be earth... until the appearance of those building's remains. Besides, I've read and watched the book and movies an eternity ago and I can't remember everything, but I wonder if there wasn't some kind of foreshadowing related to the moon (a least in the book ?). Can't remember well so I'm not too sure.

Spoiler

On the contrary : neither the MC nor narration nor any other character ever mentioning or alluding to direct family of a suspicious (central ?) character when 'conducting an investigation closely related' seems to be either an asspull or trying voluntarily to forbid the reader to be able to 'get a clue'. Bad writing in my book.

 

Edited by Bredan
Spoiler added
Posted

Is your second paragraph referring to G-Senjou no Maou again? If so, first you should probably hide it behind a spoiler tag:sachi:. Second, I'm not saying it's a great twist, just that it makes at least some sense in the context of the narrative so the twist itself doesn't bother me as much. Also, is it even true there is no proper setup?

Spoiler

The VN very clearly alludes to something important having happened in Kyousukes past and his family situation being somewhat ominous, and Maou being his brother connects the loose ends. I mean this twist was obvious enough for me to have guessed it waaay beforehand. Wasn't his brother dying even mentioned at some point? I don't remember all the details so it might have been just before revealing he was still alive but I'm not really sure how much more obvious they could have foreshadowed the twist without spoiling it early.

My issues with the twist have more to do with it not changing anything substantial, which happens quite often with these "something happened in the past but we can't tell you yet" twists. In this case there even was a chance to do something with the "two sides of the same coin" angle, but the VN was way to busy posing as cool and clever to actually explore the idea. The original Star Wars trilogy has a very similar twist with just as little foreshadowing, but it works because it tells you something about how good and evil are connected, and it serves to humanise the bad guy who had just been a monster behind a mask up to that point. In G-Senjou no Maou it's mostly a gotcha. It's the reveal about Kyousuke's connection with Haru that actually influences his behaviour (in a way I find entirely unconvincing).

 

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