Frontwing's New Game - Hatsuru Koto Naki Mirai Yori

[Chuee]

Well, Da Capo 3 was sold as all-ages for a year without any 18+ version at all. How well did that go for Circus?

 

Well, yeah. It's a fairly dirty practice, but it gets them money. I'm not exactly sure if Frontwing is charging extra to get the 18+ content or not (it says you get a code for a patch if you buy an x-rated version I think). Going for a pure all-ages title doesn't work well unless you're as huge as Key or Type-moon. 

[douggle]

Well, yeah. It's a fairly dirty practice, but it gets them money. I'm not exactly sure if Frontwing is charging extra to get the 18+ content or not (it says you get a code for a patch if you buy an x-rated version I think). Going for a pure all-ages title doesn't work well unless you're as huge as Key or Type-moon. 

Not true at all ever hear of 07expansion? Or Nitro+/5pb. KID used to do them quite well too with the infinity series.

[Decay]

5pb focuses on consoles. KID went bankrupt. 07th Expansion is a small time doujin circle.

[Zodai]

Hey, they aren't as big as KEY or TypeMoon but 07th is at least fairly large by now.

[Decay]

Define "fairly large" because they still don't have a dedicated artist and make VNs on a shoestring budget. They also don't make standard bishoujo titles, which is another requirement for making successful all-ages games, unless you're Key.

[starlessn1ght]

The fact that it's all age in itself doesn't matter.

 

What matters is that a full-length commercial VN is being sold primarily as all-ages. It means that they're trying to reach a wider/different audience than the usual one, whether a western or a japanese one. This could be one of the first of its kind on Steam in japanese.

 

In a market as stale as the eroge market, that's actually a display of ambition.

Is it really in Steam? Soon, Steam will be ruled by VN fans! MUHAHAHAHA

[Decay]

They have not discussed how they're going to release it, or any plans for a western release, but it will probably hit Steam and see an English release, as long as Grisaia goes well.

[Satsuki]

Meanwhile, Grisaia is being defeated by Gaokao, and maybe even Sakura Fantasy.

[starlessn1ght]

Meanwhile, Grisaia is being defeated by Gaokao, and maybe even Sakura Fantasy.

O_O.

[Darklord Rooke]

and maybe even Sakura Fantasy.

 

Don't even go there >:c

 

But Grisaia is moving units at a significantly higher price point.

[douggle]

Meanwhile, Grisaia is being defeated by Gaokao, and maybe even Sakura Fantasy.

Its an all ages port of an 18+ game does that really surprise people?

[AlexZandria]

Of course it's bad. The market is much more limited because of the 18+.

 

That's like saying prostitution is bad (in places where it's legal) because you have to be legal age + to work in the field, or that pornography is bad because you have to be 18+ to watch/preform in it. It doesn't make something inherently bad if it's an 18+ kind of ordeal even with a more "limited" legal audience. If that's what the niche is meant for that's what it's meant for and alienating a niche because it doesn't appeal to a wider audience doesn't do anything to fill the gap it was filling before.

 

Not to say that an All Ages release is bad, but personally I don't like the idea of this being an All Ages release with a "planned" 18+ release. If it is planned from basically the start then the story was made with this in mind (even if they don't base a whole route on sex) it's basically like "we're giving you a working 'beta' or 'demo' and we're releasing the full thing later" instead they're calling it All Ages and 18+. In fact I think things like that aren't really good at reeling in the target audience because you're going to get a bunch of 12 year olds who play the all ages version, become obsessed with the game, find out there is pronz in it and then you're going to have an audience littered with young children. Which A) isn't the kind of person who can walk into the store and pick up a physical release of your 18+ games (which is, ahem, most of them) and B ) they're not the people with the money to be funding your company. So I don't see this "larger audience" as a positive, just a neutral, and I still don't see inherent badness in 18+ games.

 

I just want to do cute zombies and lolis with skulls in their hair. That's all guys. That's what this is really about death + gore + sexy times.

[starlessn1ght]

That's like saying prostitution is bad (in places where it's legal) because you have to be legal age + to work in the field, or that pornography is bad because you have to be 18+ to watch/preform in it. It doesn't make something inherently bad if it's an 18+ kind of ordeal even with a more "limited" legal audience. If that's what the niche is meant for that's what it's meant for and alienating a niche because it doesn't appeal to a wider audience doesn't do anything to fill the gap it was filling before.

 

Not to say that an All Ages release is bad, but personally I don't like the idea of this being an All Ages release with a "planned" 18+ release. If it is planned from basically the start then the story was made with this in mind (even if they don't base a whole route on sex) it's basically like "we're giving you a working 'beta' or 'demo' and we're releasing the full thing later" instead they're calling it All Ages and 18+. In fact I think things like that aren't really good at reeling in the target audience because you're going to get a bunch of 12 year olds who play the all ages version, become obsessed with the game, find out there is pronz in it and then you're going to have an audience littered with young children. Which A) isn't the kind of person who can walk into the store and pick up a physical release of your 18+ games (which is, ahem, most of them) and B ) they're not the people with the money to be funding your company. So I don't see this "larger audience" as a positive, just a neutral, and I still don't see inherent badness in 18+ games.

 

I just want to do cute zombies and lolis with skulls in their hair. That's all guys. That's what this is really about death + gore + sexy times.

 

You're talking as if the 'wider' audience would be just underaged people... Seriously, lots of people don't play porn games, not just underaged.

Let me clarify something here: I saw some posts saying people were fine with VNs being niche, but I'm not. Being niche doesn't just limit the audience, but a lot of other things in consequence. Fan works, for example, at least in West, usually just come with an anime adaptation. And even the variety of genres is affected by that, wider audiences require a more diversified number of genres to choose from, just like anime. More investments too with more ambitious stories, etc. This is why appealing to a wider audience can be very good.

[Satsuki]

Well, 18+ is not bad.

The rising of necrophilia fetish in people these days is

[douggle]

Well, 18+ is not bad.

The rising of necrophilia fetish in people these days is

Unfortunately a lot of people don't feel that way, they think that the porn is senseless and blah blah blah, but the all ages version of Grisaia has been a topic of debate since its announcement, A lot of people really didn't like the idea of getting the vita port and not the original. While we are getting the 18+ edition it won't be on steam due to their policies

[kyrt]

The protag is Yuuji badass ver. 3.0, top left lady is Amane 2.0, top right girl is Mitcher, that queen lady is Yumiko, and bottom left female is Satcher.

So they're missing Makina, 6.5/10.

Obviously the dragon is Makina.

 

In all honesty I would probably buy this.

[Decay]

Don't even go there >:c

 

But Grisaia is moving units at a significantly higher price point.

It pretty much all comes down to the price. If Grisaia was $10 it would probably be outselling Gaokao. Gaokao offers an actual non-ecchi-filled dating sim/VN hybrid of substantial length at a super cheap price, so in a way it was bound to do well. But the translation is utter garbage, possibly machine translated. Looking at Gaokao's steamspy numbers and considering where Grisaia was when SP requested for their games to not be tracked, I'm pretty sure Grisaia is at least pulling in more money. And they'll probably make a ton more once it goes on its first serious (50%+) discount. 

 

The real moral of the Gaokao thing is that your average customer doesn't actually give a shit about translation quality. As long as the text is legible and the girls are cute, they'll buy anything. You know, I actually sort of have a soft spot in my heart for Gaokao, it at least provides more and better content than the Sakura games, even if the English writing is beyond horrible. And the devs seem to want to retranslate it with the money they're earning, so there's that. At first I was kind of incredulous that it was doing so well, but I don't mind it so much anymore.

[Scars Unseen]

You're talking as if the 'wider' audience would be just underaged people... Seriously, lots of people don't play porn games, not just underaged.

Let me clarify something here: I saw some posts saying people were fine with VNs being niche, but I'm not. Being niche doesn't just limit the audience, but a lot of other things in consequence. Fan works, for example, at least in West, usually just come with an anime adaptation. And even the variety of genres is affected by that, wider audiences require a more diversified number of genres to choose from, just like anime. More investments too with more ambitious stories, etc. This is why appealing to a wider audience can be very good.

 

Yeah, I have to laugh at people wanting VNs to remain niche.  It reminds me of black metal fans who can't stand it when bands make music that doesn't sound like it was recorded in a dumpster and call anyone who becomes popular a sell out.  It should be pretty obvious that the inclusion of explicit sex scenes in a VN is going to limit its potential audience.  Even R rated movies conceal most of the action and generally only give the indication that sex is happening rather than going into fine detail of every action. 

 

I do think that H-scenes fit in some visual novels.  Grisaia is one of them simply because sexuality is core to the VNs structure.  I don't think it needs explicit sex scenes, but I am fine with how they fit in(though some do make me cringe).  Most non-nukige VNs, however, could do just as well or better with a simple boot scene.  

[douggle]

 

Yeah, I have to laugh at people wanting VNs to remain niche.  It reminds me of black metal fans who can't stand it when bands make music that doesn't sound like it was recorded in a dumpster and call anyone who becomes popular a sell out.  It should be pretty obvious that the inclusion of explicit sex scenes in a VN is going to limit its potential audience.  Even R rated movies conceal most of the action and generally only give the indication that sex is happening rather than going into fine detail of every action. 

 

I do think that H-scenes fit in some visual novels.  Grisaia is one of them simply because sexuality is core to the VNs structure.  I don't think it needs explicit sex scenes, but I am fine with how they fit in(though some do make me cringe).  Most non-nukige VNs, however, could do just as well or better with a simple boot scene.  

Well, its not necessarily the same thing as people wanting black metal to remain cvlt, a lot of people are worried about things like SJW backlash which was something we already started to see with the Higurashi sprites. And are worried about that affecting things, I personally am all for VN's going mainstream but its definitely a concern a lot of people have.

[starlessn1ght]

 

Yeah, I have to laugh at people wanting VNs to remain niche.  It reminds me of black metal fans who can't stand it when bands make music that doesn't sound like it was recorded in a dumpster and call anyone who becomes popular a sell out.  It should be pretty obvious that the inclusion of explicit sex scenes in a VN is going to limit its potential audience.  Even R rated movies conceal most of the action and generally only give the indication that sex is happening rather than going into fine detail of every action. 

 

I do think that H-scenes fit in some visual novels.  Grisaia is one of them simply because sexuality is core to the VNs structure.  I don't think it needs explicit sex scenes, but I am fine with how they fit in(though some do make me cringe).  Most non-nukige VNs, however, could do just as well or better with a simple boot scene.  

 

Totally in agreement with this. I really don't see the need for explicit sexual content. If it wasn't like that, even having sex scenes, the market would be much bigger.

[Decay]

Well, its not necessarily the same thing as people wanting black metal to remain cvlt, a lot of people are worried about things like SJW backlash which was something we already started to see with the Higurashi sprites.

Oh please. The higurashi thing was one person who admitted to pretending to be many. It was not something worth worrying about.

[douggle]

Oh please. The higurashi thing was one person who admitted to pretending to be many. It was not something worth worrying about.

You didn't spend a whole lot of time on /vn/ or /jp/ if thats what you think dude. It was something people WERE worrying about whether it was one person or many is regardless sjw backlash was something that people were/are concerned about.

[Decay]

I'm not saying it's not something people are worrying about, I'm saying it's not worth worrying about. Being afraid to expand while worrying about the "SJW" specter is pure idiocy. Even if people start raising a big fuss over your VN (they probably won't), that's a good thing. See: Hatred, and how much it profited off the backlash.

[douggle]

I'm not saying it's not something people are worrying about, I'm saying it's not worth worrying about. Being afraid to expand while worrying about the "SJW" specter is pure idiocy.

Ah I got what you mean, yeah that is true. 

[Clephas]

It looks like it is either going to be a fantasy/adventure with a mature protagonist, or a strategy or action hybrid.  I honestly don't know where they plan to go with this, but it doesn't look like it is going to be an excuse for endless H, at least so far.