What are you playing?

[alpacaman]

20 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Yuuji is quite broken himself, you know. You can probably get the full extent of how broken he is only after you read his full backstory in the second VN, but, in the end, it's him who is the most broken person in that school. I'm not even sure if you can call any of his relationships with the girls "romantic" considering how far he goes sometimes. I think, that's exactly why these relationships do work, and I kind of feel like you came to these conclusion exactly because you watched the anime first, but, well, I won't argue with you.

Kajitsu is not very subtle about Yuuji being broken, so I guessed. But he still has a very dominant personality which imo isn't a good match with someone as fragile as these girls, especially if he should get unstable at some point. Many of the means Yuuji uses to help the girls would be considered abuse if his plans didn't (sometimes magically) work out, and I guess at least the girls would consider their relationships romantic. I tried to ignore the romance in Makina's route and didn't draw conclusions about the other routes' relationships from it because I knew it was going to be weird from the beginning. But still, from all the knowledge I have of the characters and the plot I can't imagine any couplesque relationship between Yuuji and one of the heroines that wouldn't result in him completely dominating the relationship.

But as I said, I'm basing this opinion only on the main and Makina route and the anime, so the character routes in the VN (and the sequels) might add some nuance.

 

58 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, if you connect how the original sprites look to their personalities, then pretty much all of them look... as if they took part in a genocide or something. And the sprites Mangagamer used didn't really click with me either, so whenever I decide to replay it, I'll probably just go with the Umineko Project version (if they finish porting Chiru at that point).

Also, I still wonder if Ange supposed to look fat in the original...

All the sprites are ugly, but Maria looks like someone going through that part of puberty where everyone looks kind of gross, not like a nine year old girl. Her whole way of talking like a three year old only makes it worse. In a different setting she would make a great gnome or something like that while the others would at least pass as hobbits.

[ChaosRaven]

Angelic Howl is the only thing in Grisaia that's really great - the rest is just optional filler text. 

[Thyndd]

28 minutes ago, alpacaman said:

Kajitsu is not very subtle about Yuuji being broken, so I guessed. But he still has a very dominant personality which imo isn't a good match with someone as fragile as these girls, especially if he should get unstable at some point. Many of the means Yuuji uses to help the girls would be considered abuse if his plans didn't (sometimes magically) work out, and I guess at least the girls would consider their relationships romantic. I tried to ignore the romance in Makina's route and didn't draw conclusions about the other routes' relationships from it because I knew it was going to be weird from the beginning. But still, from all the knowledge I have of the characters and the plot I can't imagine any couplesque relationship between Yuuji and one of the heroines that wouldn't result in him completely dominating the relationship.

Hmm I think I'm starting to understand. Yeah, definitely, Grisaia doesn't have the most wholesome romance out there. Yuuji is fucked up and the girls are fucked up, so their relationship is not healthy by any stretch if you stop to analyze it. For me it somehow works because it was interesting, and honestly I thought that Yuuji being an asshole could unironically be what those girls needed the most. Yeah, seriously. When you hate yourself for who and how you are like the last thing you need is an awkward smile and kindness out of pity. I for one don't think it's that unbeliavable that someone as blunt as Yuuji could be the only person those girls would open up to. 

Anyway, if you end up giving it another opportunity, I would still suggest Amane's route. With Sachi you'll come across pretty much every single issue you've had with Grisaia so far (aside from the FBI knocking on your door), so I think it'd be counter-productive. Amane's route is pretty much all backstory, and it's a really good story in and of itself. The romance? Messed up, but at least due to Amane's personality the "dominance" you talked about is less noticeable, so there's that.

 

Ok, so I finished Umineko episode 3. What an episode  Let's break it down a little.

Spoiler

Moral of the story: never trust a witch that has outlived you for a thousand years! Let me tell ya, Beato, I didn't swallow your sudden change of heart, not for even a moment. Though I'll admit that dere Beato was 'cute' (as cute as a serial killer witch can be, at least) and somewhere deep inside I wished she had changed 

Well then, with this episode what it's been made clear is that it does no longer matter whether witches exist or not. What's happening can be explained both by magic and by a human culprit/s, being both perspectives valid, in a way at least, only that the magic disappears when you "open the box", huh. I know for a fact that writers are weirdly fascinated with quantum mechanics and they are constantly trying to introduce quantum bullshit to explain every piece of fantasy that they still want to sound "sciency" (see Muv Luv), but I never thought I'd live to see the day in which quantum superposition would be used as a literary device. That's crazy  I guess some people didn't like the supernatural elements in Higurashi, so Ryukishi thought that he'd make a story with even MORE fantastical elements, but that could be fully explained with none of them, while at the same time still being an integral part of the story. 

I'm still wondering how the message in the bottle fits in here though. My guess is that that diary is used to explain from the human perspective why we are being told the story in such a way that includes all this fantasy, while from the non-human perspective, well, it'd just be the witch recreating the scene over and over. 

This episode also revealed quite a lot of the truth from the human perspective, actually. The hexagonal locked room was quite clarifying, for example. Since they never bother to show how the corpses are found and what people are doing in the meanwhile, I'll have to assume that there's no way anyone could tamper with the crime scene. It wouldn't be fair otherwise. In that case, it's the first time we get a lot of red info without other possible bullshit going on at the same time, so it's very valuable. Let's see:

-Beato's definition of a locked room/s

-There's no more than 18 people on Rokkenjima

-The six (Kinzo and the servants) are dead

-None of them commited suicide nor died from a trap or accident

Yeah, it looks impossible. I was mulling over it for a while, and there's only one possible solution I could think of. Someone is not who they claim to be. Out of those six who died, there has to be an impostor, the original person being already dead. That way, there'd be this little loophole about the "six being dead", but that group wouldn't have been updated to include the impostor, so that person would still be alive to create the locked room. I wished my man Battler, when he ran out of ideas, would have asked Eva-Beato if she could confirm that there were ONLY 3 people alive (Battler, Jessica and Eva) on Rokkenjima. Yeah, something tells me that she would've declined. The roundabout way she declared all of those statements, the only thing we can say for sure is that there are at least 3 people alive, and at least 15 corpses, BUT if one of those corpses was there from the beginning there would be no problem as at every moment the number of humans alive (and therefore, that 'exist') would be <= 18. 

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something and there's another possibility... I can't see it though. If my theory is correct, then the culprit would be one of the servants (I don't think Kinzo would be particularly easy to impersonate, having to keep his death hidden and everything...). Who? No idea yet, to be honest.

Welp, onto episode 4!

 

 

[Larxe1]

https://vndb.org/v19737

Playing Hatsukoi Sankaime, finished Himeka and Misaki's route

Spoiler

What the hell, Himeka's route felt more like a true route compared to Misaki's which required you to finish someone else's route first. Himeka's route was very  dramatic and it spanned decaades(even if the timeskips were somtimes handwaved). Rin and Misaki are so cuteeeee. Rin is one of the cutest children I ever encountered in a VN. I didn't like Himeka much compared to Misaki but I really liked the plot since well, it's the kind of plot I like with all the conflicts and such, with both characters working incredibly hard

4

Good game, also the art for Yurino was kind of off-putting for me. Play for Himeka and Misaki, and also Rin.

[Dreamysyu]

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

With Sachi you'll come across pretty much every single issue you've had with Grisaia so far (aside from the FBI knocking on your door), so I think it'd be counter-productive.

I recommended Sachi because I thought that it manages its romance in the best way... but on second thought, yeah, maybe you're right. On the other hand, I still think that playing Michiru or Yumiko would be even more counterproductive.

19 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

Angelic Howl is the only thing in Grisaia that's really great

You know, I kind of agree with this part of your statement. This part definitely stood out above all others and, if it was released on its own, it could actually make a pretty great short VN. The other parts imo are just a nice way to waste your time. To be honest, I never really understood what exactly makes Grisaia as popular as it is, but I personally enjoyed it, and to me, well, it's pretty much all that matters.

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Ok, so I finished Umineko episode 3. What an episode  Let's break it down a little.

Well, I hope I don't spoil anything that you aren't supposed to know yet, but I'll try to comment on some of your ideas.

Spoiler

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Let me tell ya, Beato, I didn't swallow your sudden change of heart, not for even a moment.

Well, at least admit that Beato would still make a pretty good actress.

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I know for a fact that writers are weirdly fascinated with quantum mechanics and they are constantly trying to introduce quantum bullshit to explain every piece of fantasy that they still want to sound "sciency" (see Muv Luv), but I never thought I'd live to see the day in which quantum superposition would be used as a literary device.

It's a strange phenomenon which seems to imply that we know a lot less about reality than our intuitions tells us, and it's quite natural that many authors are fascinated by it, and considering that even physicists don't understand it very well, most of the works that use it tend to fail in capturing it in a believable way. Still, it's just as much a philosophical problem as it is a physical one, and Umineko mostly focuses on the philosophical side of the problem. Well, it manages to use them in a pretty fascinating way, sure.

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I guess some people didn't like the supernatural elements in Higurashi, so Ryukishi thought that he'd make a story with even MORE fantastical elements, but that could be fully explained with none of them, while at the same time still being an integral part of the story. 

The main problem of the supernatural elements in Higurashi is that the make the mystery impossible to solve, because there are simply too many possibilities. Ryukishi addressed this problem in Umineko by introducing the red truth and making it so the supernatural parts wouldn't really matter in the end. If you assume that all magic scenes are true, than it makes Umineko an interesting fantasy tale with a very unique magic system. If you assume that all of them are just there to confuse you, it would make Umineko a very strange mystery series with lots of seemingly meaningless filler. In the end, it's mostly up to you to decide which interpretation you choose, if we assume that (or before ) one of the interpretations isn't made impossible later in the story.

18 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Someone is not who they claim to be. Out of those six who died, there has to be an impostor, the original person being already dead.

Hmm, interesting. I obviously won't comment on whether you theory is true or not. So, you decide to make a wild guess who the real culprit could be, who would you choose right now?

19 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Welp, onto episode 4!

Well, good luck. What do you think of a certain new character so far, by the way? Actually, I don't know if you noticed that, but she is actually mentioned even in the Episode 1. Well, Umineko will definitely be a very fun VN to reread.

~~~

Well... I should probably also note at this point that Umineko is not always... very clear with what exactly some of its red truths supposed to mean, and it tends to use some questionable word tricks. It could partially be a problem with the translation, actually. Some sentences may have slightly different meanings in Japanese, so some of the red truths might be a bit misleading. But in the end, people actually did managed to find some contradictions with the "official explanation", which caused all these original theories to appear, but I honestly think that they are just overthinking everything a bit too much.

Also, never use Ctrl-Z when typing forum posts. I had to rewrite almost half of this post because of that.

[Stormwolf]

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

I recommended Sachi because I thought that it manages its romance in the best way... but on second thought, yeah, maybe you're right. On the other hand, I still think that playing Michiru or Yumiko would be even more counterproductive.

You know, I kind of agree with this part of your statement. This part definitely stood out above all others and, if it was released on its own, it could actually make a pretty great short VN. The other parts imo are just a nice way to waste your time. To be honest, I never really understood what exactly makes Grisaia as popular as it is, but I personally enjoyed it, and to me, well, it's pretty much all that matters.

Well, I hope I don't spoil anything that you aren't supposed to know yet, but I'll try to comment on some of your ideas.

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, at least admit that Beato would still make a pretty good actress.

It's a strange phenomenon which seems to imply that we know a lot less about reality than our intuitions tells us, and it's quite natural that many authors are fascinated by it, and considering that even physicists don't understand it very well, most of the works that use it tend to fail in capturing it in a believable way. Still, it's just as much a philosophical problem as it is a physical one, and Umineko mostly focuses on the philosophical side of the problem. Well, it manages to use them in a pretty fascinating way, sure.

The main problem of the supernatural elements in Higurashi is that the make the mystery impossible to solve, because there are simply too many possibilities. Ryukishi addressed this problem in Umineko by introducing the red truth and making it so the supernatural parts wouldn't really matter in the end. If you assume that all magic scenes are true, than it makes Umineko an interesting fantasy tale with a very unique magic system. If you assume that all of them are just there to confuse you, it would make Umineko a very strange mystery series with lots of seemingly meaningless filler. In the end, it's mostly up to you to decide which interpretation you choose, if we assume that (or before ) one of the interpretations isn't made impossible later in the story.

Hmm, interesting. I obviously won't comment on whether you theory is true or not. So, you decide to make a wild guess who the real culprit could be, who would you choose right now?

Well, good luck. What do you think of a certain new character so far, by the way? Actually, I don't know if you noticed that, but she is actually mentioned even in the Episode 1. Well, Umineko will definitely be a very fun VN to reread.

~~~

Well... I should probably also note at this point that Umineko is not always... very clear with what exactly some of its red truths supposed to mean, and it tends to use some questionable word tricks. It could partially be a problem with the translation, actually. Some sentences may have slightly different meanings in Japanese, so some of the red truths might be a bit misleading. But in the end, people actually did managed to find some contradictions with the "official explanation", which caused all these original theories to appear, but I honestly think that they are just overthinking everything a bit too much.

Also, never use Ctrl-Z when typing forum posts. I had to rewrite almost half of this post because of that.

I will never understand the Yumiko route. It must be some terribly stupid japanese thinkining. She hated her father and she hated his business. What does she do? Of course she inherits it. The bad end where they made a life for themselves with hard work etc was much better.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Stormwolf

[Thyndd]

 

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

It's a strange phenomenon which seems to imply that we know a lot less about reality than our intuitions tells us, and it's quite natural that many authors are fascinated by it, and considering that even physicists don't understand it very well, most of the works that use it tend to fail in capturing it in a believable way. Still, it's just as much a philosophical problem as it is a physical one, and Umineko mostly focuses on the philosophical side of the problem. Well, it manages to use them in a pretty fascinating way, sure.

Oh yeah, that's for sure, I didn't mean to say that it wasn't fascinating, but that writers using it nonchalantly in order to attempt to justify pretty much any weird fantasy is somewhat puzzling to me. You can just say it's fantasy, and no one would really complain (I never had an issue with this aspect in Muv Luv, for example, for it to be warranted to kill the few operative brain cells I have left with all that infodump bullshit XD). Umineko, as I currently understand it (which may or may not change in less than an hour ), makes clear that it's fantasy, while still using this phenomenon as a metaphor for how this literary metaverse works. It's really clever, and I'm loving it.

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

The main problem of the supernatural elements in Higurashi is that the make the mystery impossible to solve, because there are simply too many possibilities.

Hmm well, it's indeed impossible to solve why the story is repeating itself, but beyond that, most pieces you can actually put together and have a perfectly reasonable explanation... as long as you are willing to accept Hinamizawa syndrom as something not too far away from the realm of reality. Admittedly this can be a bit of a stretch for some people, and as you said, before knowing that it exists it's (almost?) impossible to deduce it from the evidence you are shown... there's just to many variables. However, I personally didn't find it to be that big a deal for the enjoyment of the VN as a whole. As a matter of fact, it's one of my all time favorites 

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

Hmm, interesting. I obviously won't comment on whether you theory is true or not. So, you decide to make a wild guess who the real culprit could be, who would you choose right now?

Hmm... you're putting me on the spot there  The thing is, I can only say that I suspect the culprit to be among those 6 for episode 3. I don't know if it's just one single culprit, and there could be a very complex net of situations and accomplices. Also for what it's worth, I must say that I'm following the classical quote "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". That is, I find it extremely hard to believe that someone could disguise themselves as an already dead person and nobody would notice, even if it's just a servant and not a family member (this is not Meitantei Conan ffs!). On the other hand, if that's not it, that'd mean that the impostor had been impersonating the original for as long as every member of the Ushiromiya familiy can remember. That solves this problem, but creates an even bigger one: how did they fake their death in the hexagonal locked room? In this case there wouldn't be any corpse to use as a substitute. Ok, the red truth could still shamelessly say that the six persons were dead, but what about the people inspecting the victims? ... Is Nanjo an accomplice then?

Furthermore, this would also mean that this culprit would have been faking their death in every episode, since every servant "died" in one way or another... While this would come in handy to explain all those incidents that "only a 19th person could've done", it's still extremely hard to believe... Fuck, I don't know. And to make it worse I, like Battler, don't really want to suspect some people like Kanon and Shannon. Like, in this 3rd episode someone killed George, and I assume it's not Eva (not a logical assumption, it's just that I refuse to believe she'd kill her beloved son), but how could I suspect Shannon? In the 2nd episode someone killed Jessica, and the most suspicious person, as everyone said, would be Kanon. But can I really believe that Kanon would kill her? Damn it. Zenzen dame da.

So ok, I'll throw Genji, Gohda or Kumasawa out there. Not for any particular reason. They are just the ones I feel less conflicted suspecting  

1 hour ago, Dreamysyu said:

Well, good luck. What do you think of a certain new character so far, by the way? Actually, I don't know if you noticed that, but she is actually mentioned even in the Episode 1.

Oh yeah, Ange huh, I certainly remember they mentioned right at the beginning of episode 1 that Battler had a little sister that couldn't come with them because she was ill. As for what I think about her... not much for the time being I guess. What I found most interesting and thought provoking in this Tea Party was the fact that the best way Eva could think of to ruin Ange's life was leaving her the inheritance. All that about not being able to trust anyone anymore... it made me think that it's probably one big reason why you always see rich and famous people married to someone with their same social status. It's not necessarily out of any superiority complex.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Thyndd
Umineko spoilers

[onorub]

Finished normal end of 428 shibuya scramble. I don't think i've ever overthunk a culprit this much.

Spoiler

When the bit about perfectly unperfect plans came up, i seriously though Tama's boss was behind it all because of the amount of accidents and coincidences caused by him. My confirmation bias went as far as theorizing that he put Maria in a jammed catsuit on purpose to hide her for a few hours and kept minorikawa and his boss from solving their money problems (trying to steal the laptop and the winning ticket) to keep the loan sharks active and have an alibi for running all over Shibuya.

 

[Stormwolf]

Finished Sharin no kuni for the second time.

Spoiler

Just as much of a blast as the first time. Well, the only thing that was off was the whole sister always being there wasn't handled as good as it could have been. Even after explanations i couldn't believe she always was there as the pieces didn't seem to fit. Truly epic storytelling nonetheless!

Started Marriage lunatics and i just don't know what to think. Seems to be a longish game, but how is it? Girl after girl pops up and all they're doing is teasingly fighting over the protagonist, when no one can even say why they even like the guy. Being in love from the first second is the worst way to go about things. A steady buildup over time makes for a more engaging story. This dynamic isn't something i can stomach for long. It's truly boring.

[LanThief(HUN)]

5 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Finished Sharin no kuni for the second time.

  Reveal hidden contents

Just as much of a blast as the first time. Well, the only thing that was off was the whole sister always being there wasn't handled as good as it could have been. Even after explanations i couldn't believe she always was there as the pieces didn't seem to fit. Truly epic storytelling nonetheless!

Started Marriage lunatics and i just don't know what to think. Seems to be a longish game, but how is it? Girl after girl pops up and all they're doing is teasingly fighting over the protagonist, when no one can even say why they even like the guy. Being in love from the first second is the worst way to go about things. A steady buildup over time makes for a more engaging story. This dynamic isn't something i can stomach for long. It's truly boring.

it will get intresting after the prologue  They are all the protagonist bride candidates 

[Stormwolf]

6 minutes ago, LanThief(HUN) said:

it will get intresting after the prologue  They are all the protagonist bride candidates 

Yes i know. It's just that nothing is happening. Only cutesy fighting over the protagonist. It's now right before they're starting school but i just had to quit.

[LanThief(HUN)]

1 minute ago, Stormwolf said:

Yes i know. It's just that nothing is happening. Only cutesy fighting over the protagonist. It's now right before they're starting school but i just had to quit.

Well i alredy finishd reading MML but i won't post NSFW pich.

One of the girls ending http://prntscr.com/l5sl2d

[spademan]

Finnaly got to finishing umineko, and after confirming my theories with the manga, I was shell-shocked.

I thought vns like zero escape series, fata and dies were 10/10, but umineko is honestly on it's own god like pillar above the rest.

[YomiPlays]

Actually playing Amairo * Islenauts (VNDB), Hatsukoi 1/1 (VNDB) and Hoshi (VNDB) for the same company. And normal games  Disgaea (Steam) and Stranger of sword city (Steam). Many games ... time.

Any one like the chibis?  Amairo SD.

[Fred the Barber]

16 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

Yes i know. It's just that nothing is happening. Only cutesy fighting over the protagonist. It's now right before they're starting school but i just had to quit.

Yeah, I honestly couldn't deal with MML. I played through the common route and a tiny bit of a character route, and it just feels like nothing ever happens, so I dropped it.

[Stormwolf]

7 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

Yeah, I honestly couldn't deal with MML. I played through the common route and a tiny bit of a character route, and it just feels like nothing ever happens, so I dropped it.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Wont even bother then.

[Zidan209]

After reading most of Fureraba a few months ago, i probably got a moege overdose and played Evenicle, Subahibi and the entirety of the Muv-luv trilogy before returning and finishing Himari's route that i absolutely couldn't stand. As it turns out, i still did not have enough of the "plotge" VNs and picked up Umineko a few days ago. So i just finished episode 1 and praises are the only thing i can think of when trying to describe it. Despite knowing some tidbits about the story that was unfolding prior to reading through it, it was a really great experience, and the writing was absolutely perfect at setting the atmosphere. Can't wait to move on the next episodes and find out more and more about everything.

[KaveAhangar]

I'm currently reading Dies Irae Interview with Kaziklu Bey, hoping that Masada's writing isn't gone fry my brain or something. Haven't gotten very far, so I can't say much at this point. The sound and visuals are great through and it's cool to get more Dies Irae stuff. 

Besides that, I recently finished Tiny Dungeon Black and White. It was ok, I'd say it's a relatively average fantasy VN. I really liked the main heroine Vell, one of the sweetest characters I've ever seen in a VN. It some well written, but surprisingly easy to understand fights too. 

[Thyndd]

Umineko ep 4, and thus the whole first game, finished. Moving onto chiru now!  As always I'mma roughly develop some of my impressions and theories in spoilers, though a good review and a great tl;dr would be just ASKDFHSDJJKLHGASRLMDSCMKZ 

Spoiler

Oh boy, what an episode again. This one was "easier" I guess? Not really, but at least it wasn't harder. Most of the questions were already introduced, so I felt like the focus was more on the characters interactions side. I was told that Ep 4 had the worst pacing out of the four, that it takes its sweet time to start off and maybe I would struggle for the first few hours. It was not the case. I absolutely loved the start and the end (not so much the middle part, which imo was a lot weaker). For one it provides a different perspective of magic seen from the human point of view. I've already said in my previous discussion on Ep 3 that at this point I couldn't care less whether magic "truly" exists. I think I would be doing myself a disservice if I were to reject all magical elements as "false" and thus not a part of the "true story". In the end, whether all the witch's side characters exists in the same plane than humans and directly affect the story is not that relevant. Like, what would change for me? Would it really make sense to think of them as "fictitious" even though they clearly exist, interact and develop in this literary world? I don't think so. If it were to come to that, why am I reading fiction in the first place?  

That said, obviously this episode's intentions were to shed some light onto the nature of magic from the human's side, or, for those readers who reject magic, or, for those as myself who reject it and accept it at the same time. So, magic is this "power" we all have due to the fact that the world as we know it is a totally subjective experience. We as conscious observers of the world construct our own reality, and while it makes sense to assume that there's an objetive world out there, it's bound to be forever out of our reach. This must be one of the oldest topics in philosophy. Anyway, in the end, as they say, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Someone who genuinely thinks the world is a happy, warm place, will easily find love and happiness when looking around them (eeeven though taking this to the exteme leaves you with a veeery high risk of being fooled, but oh well). On the other hand, someone who does not know love is doomed to view the world as an ugly place where everyone, including themselves, is a demon. 'Without love it cannot be seen', huh? Rosa and Maria are prime examples of both cases... With this in mind, witches and other magical beings are but the personification of this power we have to shape our world... and therefore are 'born from humans'. I'm fairly positive this is the conclusion Ange reached and the solution to the apparent contradiction of accepting and denying witches and magic at the same time. Interestingly enough, turning this around, this also means that everything that happens from the witch's perspective must have an equivalent from the human's perspective, even if this relation could be sometimes vague and metaphorical; 

Also, don't really want to dwell too much on the self-evident, but I HAVE to say it. Poor Maria. My heart broke just too many times while reading her flashbacks and learning where her 'uu uu' came from was really the last straw. *Sigh*

Well, let's move onto the final mystery of this episode then, shall we? Who is Beatrice, or rather... katakana Beato, the witch. Ever since the episode 1 one of my biggest questions was why is Beato so hung up on Battler. I said in the respective post that it obviously had to be something more than just 'because she's a cruel witch that enjoys torturing people, especially if they try to deny her', if for nothing else than storytelling purposes. Now we learnt that apparently Battler did something that in some way hurt Beato, or, you know, the person who witch Beato comes from. I believe Beato is the personification of that resentment, that eventually leads that person, the human culprit, to commit the Rokkenjima murders. It's no wonder then that from the witch's perspective it's Beato, the embodiment of that resentment born from Battler's sin, who commits those crimes. Now for the tough part, the identity of that person. Well, I was reviewing the little pieces we are shown about Beatrice's life in episode 3 and thinking about it. If I'm not mistaken, the thing goes like this. Format: (W witches side / H my interpretation from the human side feat. Battler)

"W: Kinzo is a mage who summoned the great Golden Witch Beatrice and fell in love with her / H: Kinzo had a mistress called Beatrice, who probably lend him the gold he needed"

"W: Kinzo imprisoned the witch in a human body so that she couldn't escape / H: Kinzo is a creepy bastard who was so obsessed with his lover that shut her in Kuwadorian for life"

"W: Beatrice had enough so she broke her human cage and freed herself / H: Poor woman had enough and killed herself"

"W: Kinzo created a new vessel for Beatrice and imprisoned her soul again / H: Kinzo and Beatrice had a child. The crazy fucker called her Beatrice and shut the child in Kuwadorian as her mother's substitute"

This should be the Beatrice Rosa met with, and the one who died on that cliff. At this point things get weird. If she's dead (confirmed in Red) it shouldn't be possible for Battler and Maria to have met her. For a while my hypothesis was that maybe Kinzo had not only one child with his mistress, but 2, twins, and called them both Beatrice. This also sounded particularly appealing to explain the multiple personality witch Beato seemed to show sometimes (and not gonna lie, Higurashi also had a slight influence in this ). I've already discarded it though. In this episode 4 they say that at some point the boat captain was instructed to stop carrying supplies to the back harbor, presumedly when the Beato who met Rosa died. If another twin was still leaving there I wouldn't expect this to happen. Then... I realised something, and I don't know if I'm a creep and should be ashamed for even thinking about this, but at the start of ep 3 we got to see kid Beato, when she broke that vase and then Virgilia fixed it for a while. At that time I didn't see anything weird, but while I was rewatching the scene I noticed that she called Kinzo "grandfather". I mean, I don't know if that's literal or it's just a standard way to address the family head... but if it is... well, then this:

"W: Beatrice (child from Kinzo and his mistress) fell off the cliff and her soul was freed, eventually being able to regain a human body / H: Kinzo used to fuck her own daughter (a minor, at that) and out of the incest another Beatrice child came out, being this the person witch Beato was born from"

Ok, I know, that's messed up and if this is just me imagining things I'm gonna be pretty embarrassed and probably blame Euphoria for it  To makes things worse, we now know that there are not more than 17 persons on Rokkenjima at the time the massacre occurs, so, this Beatrice should be among those 17... I mean, there aren't that many options, are they?

Spoiler

Those are the only two ladies whose ages would match. FUCK THEY EVEN HAVE BLOND HAIR AND BLUE EYES LIKE BEATO YOU MO*********R. And... of those two, unfortunately for Shannon she just happens to fit much better in all the theories I've created so far...

And wanna know more? According to witch Beato, when she fell off that cliff she was at last FREE. Where did Shannon come from again? AN ORPHANAGE! I can perfectly picture in my head Shannon's mother (the Beatrice who fell off that cliff) assisting to her daugher's escape from Kuwadorian and the child ending up in an orphanage. Then Kinzo would investigate and come to the conclusion that the child was in Fukuin House, thus his unexplainable interest for that orphanage. It would make so much sense that I want to cry.

This is not with its share of problems though. Shannon clearly died during the first twilight in the first episode for example (and in this exact same episode, when Genji, Kumasawa and Najo were killed Jessica was in holed up in Kinzo's study, so she wouldn't work either). Wasn't she left with half of her face so she was identifiable? Well, though at this point I have serious doubts whether you can take at face value any fact that you are told that happened between 4th and 5th October on 1986 Rokkenjima, to be honest. If it's Shannon who wrote those messages in the bottles she could pretty much fake the story however she wanted.

Man, if this turned out to be the case... at least tell me that Kinzo didn't also abuse his granddaughter. Just no, please. No. Though if so... then It'd be no wonder she wanted to kill the shit out of Kinzo and all his family.

Also, as a side note, I was pretty shocked when they showed that Ange died in 1998. Why? Did Kasumi actually killed her and all that magic scene was just a delusion? Or perhaps did Ange end up commiting suicide in the end??? I don't fucking know.

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Thyndd

[Testarossa]

I'm now playing Kara no Shoujo, about 2 hours in and I'm wondering who thought it'd be a good idea to adapt it in a 2-OVA hentai. 

I'm not using a walkthrough and I know next to nothing about the game, so I expect some surprises along the way.

[alpacaman]

After some hardware troubles I finally got around to reading Umineko. I finished ep 1 and read the first few hours of ep 2 and really got hooked on the weird school festival song. It's really promising so far although I have no idea what direction the story is going to take fill eight 15 hour volumes, considering

Spoiler

everyone dies in episode 1. They build up this Battler vs. Beatrice thing with him not accepting her and trying to solve the epitaph in the next life (?) or whatever but that would probably just be enough material to fill 3-4 episodes. I already read reviews that said Umineko isn't a clear cut murder-mystery story that gives you a classic setup and then puts all the pieces together in the finale so I really don't know what to expect.

All the praise Umineko gets for it's soundtrack is well deserved. While none of the tracks really stuck to me so far (except for the one mentioned above) I don't think I've read another VN where the soundtrack sets the mood for the scenes as well as this one.

Is it just me, or does House in Fata Morgana seem heavily influenced by Umineko? I'm no expert on Japanese scary stories so it's possible that this just is the way artists there tell western-style horror tales, but to me the aesthetics in both titles just seem very similar.

[r0xm2n]

Still reading Muv-Luv Alternative........ my current thoughts are as follows.....

 

OH GOD, WHAT DID I JUST SEE!?

I CANNOT UNSEE THAT!!!

JAPAN, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

WHY GOD DID I BUY THE +18 PATCH!?

 

...... those who have already read the game know exactly what I'm talking about

I'm surprised I was even able to stomach that, good grief.....

[Mr Poltroon]

5 minutes ago, r0xm2n said:

Still reading Muv-Luv Alternative........ my current thoughts are as follows.....

 

OH GOD, WHAT DID I JUST SEE!?

I CANNOT UNSEE THAT!!!

JAPAN, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

WHY GOD DID I BUY THE +18 PATCH!?

 

...... those who have already read the game know exactly what I'm talking about

I'm surprised I was even able to stomach that, good grief.....

Wait until the 'that was practically vanilla' comments.

[Thyndd]

6 minutes ago, r0xm2n said:

Still reading Muv-Luv Alternative........ my current thoughts are as follows.....

 

OH GOD, WHAT DID I JUST SEE!?

I CANNOT UNSEE THAT!!!

JAPAN, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

WHY GOD DID I BUY THE +18 PATCH!?

 

...... those who have already read the game know exactly what I'm talking about

I'm surprised I was even able to stomach that, good grief.....

That was practically vanilla

[alpacaman]

There's this cheaply produced animated movie about the sinking of the Titanic where an evil whaling magnate allies with the sharks to sink the Titanic and something something PROFIT.

Spoiler

The sharks trick a giant puppy eyed octopus named Tentacles into throwing the famous iceberg in front of the ship. Tentacles, noticing his terrible mistake, rushes to the rescue and holds together the crack in the middle of the Titanic long enough so every passenger can leave the ship alive. He sinks with the ship and dies, but in the final wedding scene he's back alive so they made a sequel about him that's taking place in Atlantis or something.

I don't know why I always think about that movie when someone's talking about MuvLuv Alternative.

Edited October 18, 2018 by alpacaman