Root Double- Before Crime * After Days - Kickstarter launched!

[Decay]

Or you could just use Kickstarter with a company well versed in that. Possibly the most efficient way of them all? Almost no downside? Seems great!

[Scorp]

I do not want again come into that discussion about why I think that using Kickstarter for TL is bad. That's coming in every topic like this one. Just consider me as KS and Sekai hater and forget about it, really.

[Dergonu]

I do not want again come into that discussion about why I think that using Kickstarter for TL is bad. That's coming in every topic like this one. Just consider me as KS and Sekai hater and forget about it, really.

Ok I'm sorry, but if you dont want to get into a discussion about it, why come into the thread and comment about it in the first place ..?

[Scorp]

I do not want again come into that discussion about why I think that using Kickstarter for TL is bad. That's coming in every topic like this one. Just consider me as KS and Sekai hater and forget about it, really.

Ok I'm sorry, but if you dont want to get into a discussion about it, why come into the thread and comment about it in the first place ..?

Does this thread about why I think KS is bad for TL? Seems no (*looks at first post* - definitely not, Scorp was never mentioned there). And I really got tired to explain my point of view in every thread regarding KS aspect, Decay saw it numerous times, same as Rooke and maybe you too. Why repeat same thing?

[Maxel]

Using KS to fund All-Ages only VNs = Good

Using KS to fund All-Ages+18+ VNs = Bad

And even then Kickstarter isn't perfect.. The whole Grisaia dakimuras thing... Anyway, I don't mind using KS to sponsor all-ages titles, which require a lot of money to license (Angel Beats/FSN/Mahoyo and other good AA VNs) but for PSV ports it's not that good. The fans of original 18+ versions are hurt by that. 

For now the ranking still remains: Mangagamer>>>>>>>Sekai Project/JAST>>Fruitbat

MG is basically years ahead of others in terms of customer service, PR, website, forums etc. 

FSN will probably be only available through KS, unless Type-Moon will decide to release it by themselves. Even though I would love to see iOS assets ported to PC with voices etc.

[Scorp]

Doddler rewrites Grisaia for PSV now. On PSV would never be 18+ release, by the Sony restrictions I believe, so what else choice could be here? Bad things is that PSV was never hacked as well, so would be no way to reintegrate cutted contents (unless someone would persuade Doddler to integrate backdoor for custom patches, but I believe this would be against Sony rules). 

[Tyr]

You can't just give a license to any idiot with money, that would be monumentally stupid business management.

Instead, they are giving licenses to Dovac

Kickstarter for VNs are bad because it corrupts the idea of Crowdfunding. It's for Indies and Startups to finance their first ambitious project. NOT for established companies to support their every move! If you need to ask for money every fucking time you want to do something, your company is an epic fail economically. MG and JAST don't do this because they are not troll companies like Sekai Project is.
That said, I can't blame Dovac for being a greedy businessman and choosing the option with the most profit. If I had no soul, pride or conscience, maybe I would do the same.

[Darklord Rooke]

 Kickstarter for VNs are bad because it corrupts the idea of Crowdfunding. It's for Indies and Startups to finance their first ambitious project. NOT for established companies to support their every move! 

And yet we are constantly bombarded with examples of successful Kickstarters that do not follow this simple rule. Harebrained studios kickstarter’d Shadowrun, Shadowrun Hong Kong, and now the very exciting new Battletech game.

Kickstarter is a patronage system, and people don’t get to limit what can and can’t be done with that system merely because certain acts offends their particular sense of morals. In other words, if other people want to spend their money supporting these companies and you don’t approve, that’s really none of your business. I will say this though, if you think developers will only need assistance on their first ambitious startup, then I think you have a fairly limited experience of the development world. If that were the case, people would have no need for Publishers.

JAST finances their stuff through J-List. MG took a long time to get to their current, stable position. 

[Tyr]

I have nothing against companies using Crowdfunding for specific means like maybe recovering from a financial flop and checking if people still have interest in their products, like Overdrive did with its Green Green Remake.
But I don't like using Crowdfunding as a business model. I mean using Crowdfunding every time. It's wrong. It sends the message that this stuff is too niche to publish it normally (which is an insult to honest companies like MG trying their best to establish an honest business). It also leads to many censored all-ages version because porn is not accepted on Kickstarter. Finally, I don't think that this will last very long. This bubble will burst when people are finally tired of being exploited and realize that they don't support the English VN scene and instead are killing it. Hopefully.

In other words, if other people want to spend their money supporting these companies and you don’t approve, that’s really none of your business.

It's my business, because of stupid people backing butchered releases, I can't have nice things anymore.

[Yuuko]

Crowdfunding every time.

Sekai didn't use crowdfunding on G-senjou so that's a start I hope....

[Dergonu]

 It also leads to many censored all-ages version because porn is not accepted on Kickstarter.

Crowdfunding every time.

Sekai didn't use crowdfunding on G-senjou so that's a start I hope....

And yet they still decided to remove the H-content, even though it wasn't on kickstarter ...

[Scorp]

Crowdfunding every time.

Sekai didn't use crowdfunding on G-senjou so that's a start I hope....

Oh, please, do not start this again! Already discussed that in G-Senjou thread. Sekai did NOTHING. All did AB2 and pondr with the_noob_avenger. This is perfect example how to make money without laying a finger (I am exaggerate, obv, but you got the idea - amount of involvement is nowhere near what does MG and Jast for their localizations). They would KS all other projects, as why not? This gives lot of free money, so why not? While MG struggles to get the things profitable with their 18+ Kara no Shoujo 2 releases - Sekai blatantly cut the game and push it on Steam - eat what you got served and praise Dovac the poor, who is living on the edge, struggling for every penny each day to deliver you VNs... Bueh. You sponsor the company, who does not care about authenticity, about giving uncut uncensored versions (which I always want to get when get VN release in the west), to give you full experience and even more.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Scorp
hater gonna haaaaate, added more hate

[Maxel]

SP is starting with 10 new Indie titles and 5 OELVN titles, so please guys... calm down. At least that's what I get from watching all their Monthly Wrap-ups.

[CeruleanGamer]

*splashes holy water on everyone* Begone evil spirit of Sekai Project. You are corrupting everyone and causing them to fight and argue pointlessly.  

Edited December 6, 2015 by CeruleanGamer

[Darklord Rooke]

But I don't like using Crowdfunding as a business model. I mean using Crowdfunding every time. It's wrong. It sends the message that this stuff is too niche to publish it normally (which is an insult to honest companies like MG trying their best to establish an honest business).

There’s nothing wrong with recognising the fact that some stuff is too niche to really succeed down normal publication routes. You bring up MG but it took many years, and a focus on mainly nukige titles, to actually bring some amount of stability to the company. And even then Steam probably changed the game for them. Sekai's going for a faster growth, but doesn't want to adopt as much risk. You may not like them shedding their responsibility of risk-taking, but others are fine with it. The idea that using Crowdfunding every time is wrong is actually a statement that is quite wrong (ignoring the fact that this is based all on perspective.) I'll go into a bit of detail below.

People use kickstarter because creating ambitious games (most of the time) costs money (the quality of Indie games has increased dramatically since Kickstarter.) People fund companies on kickstarter because people recognise that ambitious games (most of the time) costs money. They want this quality and they are willing to pay to get it. People also realise that traditional means of publications are not always the best sources of revenue generation for niche games. There is nothing wrong with this, it’s a statement of fact. The top-down isometric RPG has been revived via Kickstarter, and yet Spiderweb studios was happily succeeding in this space beforehand. The fact that Spiderweb studios was succeeding in this space doesn't negate the arguments that Kickstarter has rejuvenated that sector, or that the general rule has been 'it's virtually impossible to get an isometric CRPG published via normal channels.'

Many people who are anti-kickstarter don't have the benefit of being a hardcore fan of a genre which was dead for a decade, and only recently revived (in dramatic fashion) because of Kickstarter. I keep telling people, become a fan of a genre of games which are extinct, hang around for a decade with nothing new to play, then witness Kickstarter result in multiple, high quality releases for the first time in God knows how long, and maybe your perspective may change on the issue. I'll bring up Harebrained Studios again, Harebrained Studios has used Kickstarter 3 or 4 times, but people don't care. Because of them, we're going to get a turn-based, mouth watering, strategic RPG with mechs set in the classic Battletech setting. They wouldn't have been able to create such a game without kickstarter because the audience they're targeting doesn't generate enough sales for them to create such games. That doesn't mean they've failed as a company, and in fact, Harebrained studios is one of the beloved Indies of the RPG industry. And the RPG fanbase definitely don't consider them 'dishonest.'

So continual use of Kickstarters is not 'wrong' at all. It depends on the circumstances. It doesn't mean every company who continually uses Kickstarter is a totally cool company, but I haven't really seen actual logical arguments as to why this kickstarter (for an excellent all-ages VN) is 'the work of the Devil.' I see a lot of people trotting out the same, tired, Kickstarter lines though. 

It also leads to many censored all-ages version because porn is not accepted on Kickstarter.

Sekai produces 18+ versions of their games of DP. Furthermore, all ages is becoming a thing more because of Steam than Kickstarter. SP should have released their 18+ versions quicker, no doubt about that, but you can't say that they aren't there. The fact that there are versions which are censored shouldn't concern you when there is the option to purchase the 18+ version. Everybody has their unique thought and perspectives on things, and if they wish to purchase an all-ages version then that is their prerogative. They may be getting an incomplete version of the game, but that's their choice.

This bubble will burst when people are finally tired of being exploited and realize that they don't support the English VN scene and instead are killing it. Hopefully.

Killing it? Hyperbole. I'd love to hear the explanation for this.

 

It's my business, because of stupid people backing butchered releases, I can't have nice things anymore.

No actually, it isn't. And you're not entitled to nice things in the first place. I could say 'the fact that my neighbour is living means I can't have a 50 inch, ultra HD television set. That means my neighbour's health is my business because if he were to suddenly die in mysterious and violent circumstances then there would be nothing to stop me entering his house and taking it.' But there is, actually, a whole bunch of laws and social constructs.

Your right to nice things comes provided it doesn't disrupt society's order, and you pretty much have no say on what people choose to spend their money on. And nor should you, because that opens a Pandora's box you really don't want to go down.

[Decay]

As long as people remain happy to pay for stuff 6 months to a year in advance, they will never get tired of being "exploited." I don't really see how that's exploitation in the first place. The bubble will only burst if they stop getting what they paid for.

[Suzu Fanatic]

Personally I'd "like" to get Root Double, but I'm getting a bit tired with the whole pre-purchase process Sekai is angling at. I'm already waiting for about 6 other titles to come to life that I have backed as it is. Esp. when you consider the technical conundrum that they "could" just take the money and run - it would be business suicide, sure - but crowdfunding currently does not count as legally-binding purchases, but rather donations, at the core.

 

Not really inclined to throw any more of money into the void until I see some concrete results (on new titles, rather then re-sold fan TLs with some polish, and short indie titles)

[Decay]

"Something is happening on the 28th." I'd put good money on that being the kickstarter start date. I may be jumping the gun a little here, but this is the only "surprise" from Sekai Project that feels realistic right now.

[Deep Blue]

Winged Cloud is back with Sekai Project and they are releasing Sakura: New Year?

[Kawasumi]

Winged Cloud is back with Sekai Project and they are releasing Sakura: New Year?

thought the same thing, but the I remembered that they work with mangagamer now.

[Deep Blue]

Winged Cloud is back with Sekai Project and they are releasing Sakura: New Year?

thought the same thing, but the I remembered that they work with mangagamer now.

it will be a xmas miracle, they get back together 

[VirginSmasher]

Winged Cloud is back with Sekai Project and they are releasing Sakura: New Year?

thought the same thing, but the I remembered that they work with mangagamer now.

it will be a xmas miracle, they get back together 

It'd be a miracle if Winged Cloud stopped making stupid fanservice games and actually put effort into writing something worth reading.

[Decay]

So I guess what happened on the 28th wasn't the launch of the kickstarter like I at first suspected, but the announcement of the kickstarter's launch date. I guess I was close enough?

Anyways, get your wallets ready January 5th.

[grim_tales1]

$100 seems a lot for physical copy of the game imo.

[Suzu Fanatic]

I'm not too impressed with their timing tbh. Seems like a pretty obvious passive-aggressive tactic.

 

Also, they really should have went with the KS when people still had initial hype - right after the announcement at the Con's. As it stands, don't think I will be supporting it, despite RD looking interesting.