(Confirmed fake) White Album on Steam Greenlight

[Nosebleed]

3 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

Starting a Greenlight costs $100.  Is trolling the Internet worth that much to you?

That's the sad part, you would think the $100 price tag to launch a page would stop people from uploading shit that will never go on Steam, but it doesn't, and the abuse seems to only be getting worse, you can read countless stories on how people upload whole Unity engine asset packs on Steam Greenlight (Which ALSO cost money on the Unity store) and sometimes even manage to get a game on Steam, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Steam really needs to get rid of the Greenlight system and make something with actual moderation.

[sanahtlig]

14 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Steam really needs to get rid of the Greenlight system and make something with actual moderation.

As far as I know, Greenlit games are reviewed by Valve before they're allowed to be sold.

[Nosebleed]

6 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

As far as I know, Greenlit games are reviewed by Valve before they're allowed to be sold.

Lol, that's a funny joke.

Steam Greenlight has no moderation, because "the community" is the one who is supposed to be in charge there. In theory they had good intentions with such a system, it was by the community for the community, but it's turned into a cesspool that needs to be terminated.

The only cases where a game will be taken down by Valve is if it's copyright infrigement (like this case) or if they break the community guidelines (like sexually explicit content), and usually you have to report it for it to get noticed. Other than that, anything goes on Steam Greenlight, and even in these 2 cases (as we can clearly see here), the perpetrator usually gets away with it.

[sanahtlig]

15 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Lol, that's a funny joke.

Steam Greenlight has no moderation, because "the community" is the one who is supposed to be in charge there. In theory they had good intentions with such a system, it was by the community for the community, but it's turned into a cesspool that needs to be terminated.

The only cases where a game will be taken down by Valve is if it's copyright infrigement (like this case) or if they break the community guidelines (like sexually explicit content), and usually you have to report it for it to get noticed. Other than that, anything goes on Steam Greenlight, and even in these 2 cases (as we can clearly see here), the perpetrator usually gets away with it.

I have some insight into the process from talking to Fruits JAM.  I don't think it's quite as easy as you say.

[Nosebleed]

15 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

I have some insight into the process from talking to Fruits JAM.  I don't think it's quite as easy as you think.

I don't know what goes on backstage, but I see constant crap appearing on Steam Greenlight, so if there's moderation, it's clearly not doing its job properly. I am judging from the perspective of someone who whenever opens the Greenlight tab constantly sees trash nobody wants, trash that overshadows actual good games that have to risk never being seen because there's just so much shit going up on Greenlight.

Almost everybody who uses Steam complains about its flawed Greenlight system. It's constantly abused to upload shitty games and asset flips with zero moderation, this has been common knowledge for some time now.

If this is so common, then I have no reason to believe Valve has attempted to improve Greenlight moderation in any way.

What we need is a system with curation that happens before the game even goes on Greenlight, not one where everything goes and the consequences are dealt with later, and the $100 price tag is not the answer. And when I say curation, I mean a team that evaluates whether or not something should even be on Steam, not just a team that evaluates whether or not a game breaks the guidelines.

[sanahtlig]

50 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

What we need is a system with curation that happens before the game even goes on Greenlight, not one where everything goes and the consequences are dealt with later, and the $100 price tag is not the answer. And when I say curation, I mean a team that evaluates whether or not something should even be on Steam, not just a team that evaluates whether or not a game breaks the guidelines.

They had a system like that.  Under that system, VNs weren't allowed on Steam because they weren't "games".  Do you really want Valve deciding for you what you should be able to buy or even show interest in?  And if not the old system, what would you replace it with?  What has no value to you might have value to someone else, and vice versa.

[Nosebleed]

12 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

They had a system like that.  Under that system, VNs weren't allowed on Steam because they weren't "games".  Do you really want Valve deciding for you what you should be able to buy or even show interest in?  And if not the old system, what would you replace it with?  What has no value to you might have value to someone else.

Yes, a system like that makes sense, a publisher should decide its own catalog if they want to keep their integrity, not the other way around. It would also allow for other platforms to actually compete with Steam. I would take a system that prevents all the asset flips from happening any day of the week now.

Of course if all you care about is covering all bases with no regards for integrity, then such a system doesn't work.

Edit: I'd also like to mention such a system can be updated and adapted and still keep its integrity, so VNs don't have to suddenly disappear from Steam.

I just think Greenlight's current state is simply not salvageable, there needs to be a line somewhere.

[Decay]

Also, valve does actually have some sort of internal approval process even with greenlight. That's how that Ona Ken thing was denied, if you remember that. They also check for copyright infringement and that kind of thing. It's not purely "anything goes."

Edit: As for actual content curation, yeah, Valve had that and it was extremely unkind to all Japanese games, not just VNs. 

[sanahtlig]

12 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Yes, a system like that makes sense, a publisher should decide its own catalog if they want to keep their integrity, not the other way around. It would also allow for other platforms to actually compete with Steam. I would take a system that prevents all the asset flips from happening any day of the week now.

Of course if all you care about is covering all bases with no regards for integrity, then such a system doesn't work.

And if such a system were still in place, MangaGamer's catalog would still be mostly nukige, Tokyo Babel likely wouldn't have been released in English, Seinarukana would be JAST's last RPG (Aselia appears to have been rejected by Valve before), Sekai Project would have to Kickstart EVERYTHING (and might not even exist because there'd be no destination platform to sell their games on), and MiKandi Japan probably wouldn't have gotten into VN publishing.  Be careful what you wish for.

[Nosebleed]

I edited my post but just to re-iterate, I don't want a system meant to ban VNs or Japanese games (just because the old one was like that doesn't mean a new one has to be too), I'm just saying there should be a line somewhere rather than there not being a line at all.

The biggest problem with Greenlight is that because it's such an open platform, it's flooded with mostly trash games (and I'm not talking about games that look average/generic, that's most of them, I'm talking MS Paint graphics games, which is a thing that happens), so even if you have great devs there with awesome games, a lot of the time they might not be noticed because there's just so much stuff on there, and that's not really helpful to either the devs or the consumer that has to sift through all the bullshit (and most of the times they probably won't bother).

Some might say that's the price we have to pay for having an open platform, I disagree, I think there can be limits and still allow for a platform to be open to the public, it's just that said public should also have an incentive to put in the effort to make their game look decent.

As for copyright infrigement, I know Steam takes action against it (as we see here) so I'm not blaming them for not taking a stance, but it's still baffling how this stuff manages to go up in the first place.

[sanahtlig]

1 hour ago, Nosebleed said:

I edited my post but just to re-iterate, I don't want a system meant to ban VNs or Japanese games (just because the old one was like that doesn't mean a new one has to), I'm just saying there should be a line somewhere rather than there not being a line at all.

The biggest problem with Greenlight is that because it's such an open platform, it's flooded with mostly trash games (and I'm not talking about games that look average/generic, that's most of them, I'm talking MS Paint graphics games, which is a thing that happens), so even if you have great devs there with awesome games, a lot of the time they might not be noticed because there's just so much stuff on there, and that's not really helpful to either the devs or the consumer that has to sift through all the bullshit (and most of the times they probably won't bother).

Some might say that's the price we have to pay for having an open platform, I disagree, I think there can be limits and still allow for a platform to be open to the public, it's just that said public should also have an incentive to put in the effort to make their game look decent.

As for copyright infrigement, I know Steam takes action against it (as we see here) so I'm not blaming them for not taking a stance, but it's still baffling how this stuff manages to go up in the first place.

Higurashi's no Naku Koro ni's original graphics were considered "trash".  And if no one had bought the game in Japan because of it, the graphics would've stayed that way.  Would you doom the next Higurashi-level OELVN to failure because it couldn't be sold on Steam?

I think what you want isn't content curation, but a higher bar for Greenlight success.  Maybe even force Greenlight campaigns to fundraise using a backer model (perhaps gather a set number of pre-orders that would be charged if the project was Greenlit, with the funds held by Valve until the product was released).  That would force Greenlight users to be more choosy since they'd actually have to put money behind their votes.

[Asonn]

20 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

And if such a system were still in place, MangaGamer's catalog would still be mostly nukige, Tokyo Babel likely wouldn't have been released in English, Seinarukana would be JAST's last RPG (Aselia appears to have been rejected by Valve before), Sekai Project would have to Kickstart EVERYTHING (and might not even exist because there'd be no destination platform to sell their games on), and MiKandi Japan probably wouldn't have gotten into VN publishing.  Be careful what you wish for.

I wish it would happen, I don't need translated mediocre games and occasionally good ones. I just read my shit in Japanese. Nothing against translated VNs of course but if this was in place, we finally could get rid of the cancerous Sakura games

[Nosebleed]

11 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

Higurashi's no Naku Koro ni's original graphics were considered "trash".

"Were"

Confession: I still refuse to read Higurashi with the original graphics and think the author should hire an artist instead of releasing the games in their original state.

11 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

I think what you want isn't content curation, but a higher bar for Greenlight success.  Maybe even force Greenlight campaigns to fundraise using a backer model (perhaps gather a set number of pre-orders that would be charged if the project was Greenlit, with the funds held by Valve until the product was released).  That would force Greenlight users to be more choosy since they'd actually have to put money behind their votes.

Perhaps that would work better than content curation, there's not really a way to know anything, but something that works as a way to improve the quality of stuff that goes on Greenlight as opposed to what we have now is better than nothing really.

A system that would at least clearly separate the games with a lot of interest from the games nobody wants to see, for example.
We're also currently unaware of how many upvotes a game needs to pass Greenlight, which I think is something that should change (not sure if there's estimates but I've never seen any numbers).

However, I doubt any of these things will happen, it seems Valve is very set on the "The community is the one in charge" model.

One can dream though.

[sanahtlig]

14 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

However, I doubt any of these things will happen, it seems Valve is very set on the "The community is the one in charge" model.

The system I propose keeps the community in charge (which I think is a good model) while encouraging Greenlight users to take their role as curators seriously.  I think it would work.  The amount of funds raised could also be displayed and used to sort games on Greenlight, making it easy to identify the games with the most potential at a glance.  A pre-order commitment (or even just a small pledge towards a pre-order) is so much more valuable as a vote of confidence than simply checking "yes" on a poll.

[FrozenRaven]

3 hours ago, Asonn said:

I wish it would happen, I don't need translated mediocre games and occasionally good ones. I just read my shit in Japanese. Nothing against translated VNs of course but if this was in place, we finally could get rid of the cancerous Sakura games

I have never played any of the Sakura games so I can't really say but I think those games seem to have some amount of effort put into it which is a lot more than some of the games that get passed greenlight 

And to all those guys getting mad at the people greenlighting White Album just keep in mind that not everyone is as informed as you. 

[Decay]

9 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

I'm mad because in order to be informed, all they'd have to do is do a few google searches and look at the "creator's" profile.  Seeing someone celebrate an obvious troll because they're too stupid/lazy to figure out that they're a troll tends to piss me off a little 

Why would they, though? Why would they doubt it in the first place? The only reason why someone would do further investigation is if there's reason to doubt. But people who aren't plugged into the community wouldn't have the knowledge necessary to doubt it. And even then, you say that they should do these things, but did YOU? No. You just sat back, spread your own misinformation, and let everyone else do the investigation for you. That's a weird kind of double standard you're imposing on the regular steam users.

[sanahtlig]

52 minutes ago, Zenophilious said:

I'm mad because in order to be informed, all they'd have to do is do a few google searches and look at the "creator's" profile.  Seeing someone celebrate an obvious troll because they're too stupid/lazy to figure out that they're a troll tends to piss me off a little 

I also find your crusade quixotic and more than a bit condescending.  Why should everyone on Greenlight have to go investigate Japanese-language pages to confirm the authenticity of a Greenlight before they vote?  What harm are they doing by not doing so?  None, I'd argue, and in fact if the Greenlight grabbed a lot of attention and Leaf actually heard about it, the result could be positive.  On the other hand, what would holding everyone to your standard accomplish?  Nothing, and in fact it'd just discourage people from voting and showing enthusiasm on Greenlights, reducing the usefulness of Greenlight overall.  There's absolutely zero reason to hold your average Steam user (who is just clicking a button to show support) to the standard of a media outlet which serves as an information broker.

FYI, I upvoted the Greenlight before confirming it was fake.  I didn't withdraw the upvote afterwards.

[InvertMouse]

Damn sorry guys I didn't know this was fake ...

[FrozenRaven]

35 minutes ago, InvertMouse said:

Damn sorry guys I didn't know this was fake ...

Don't worry about it a lot of people didn't know either, including me lol.