Why do people stop after getting a c&d notice?

[Justin579]

Unless you live in Japan or the title is licensed and you live in the us, what is the company able to do? Call the police from another country to arrest you and pay to send lawyers to another country?

 

I don't see that happening.

[Nosebleed]

22 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

what is the company able to do? Call the police from another country to arrest you and pay to send lawyers to another country?

Yes, that is exactly what they will do. A Cease and Desist is sent to you so you can stop doing what you're doing, or else they will report you to the authorities so they can handle you.

They don't have to pay anything though, what usually happens is the host of the infringing website is contacted and informed of the breach and your website can go poof.

[Justin579]

5 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Yes, that is exactly what they will do. A Cease and Desist is sent to you so you can stop doing what you're doing, or else they will report you to the authorities so they can handle you.

They don't have to pay anything though, what usually happens is the host of the infringing website is contacted and informed of the breach and your website can go poof.

Is there any proof of this? or another case because i don't believe this for a second. You are in another country and aren't breaking any laws there and the police shouldn't have to waste their time on this. Like snowden for a shitty example. nothing happened to him for a "real crime"

[Stormwolf]

Most people probably break into a sweat from the threat alone, and i wouldn't be surprised if the groups fell apart from within from the threat alone.

[XReaper]

1 minute ago, Justin579 said:

Is there any proof of this? or another case because i don't believe this for a second? You are in another country and aren't breaking any laws there and the police shouldn't have to waste their time.

pretty optimistic, eh? tell this to him http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/12/23/kim-dotcom-extradition/77796736/

[Nosebleed]

7 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

Is there any proof of this?

Youtube's entire copyright system operates on this principle.

7 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

 You are in another country and aren't breaking any laws there and the police shouldn't have to waste their time.

But the police don't even get involved, again it's usually just the host of the site that is contacted about it. It doesn't cost a dime to do that.
All hosts have terms of service that websites must follow, and if your website is found to breach those terms and the host doesn't want to battle a cease and desist, then they can terminate you.
It's as simple as that, no law enforcement agents get involved.

Now yes, there are certain hosts in certain locations that don't care about DMCAs and C&D letters, but in the case of fan translators the whole thing is a tad bit different because you're the only person who holds the translation patch and so if they want they know they can invest money to stop you from releasing the patch and actually get real life law enforcement involved and you can go to jail if they find who you are, so it's pretty pointless to try and battle it.

Also, and I think this is a point you're ignoring, even if they can battle it most groups don't really want to or have a reason to battle licensing companies, they actually want to support the game, so they often quit before a C&D even arrives because the game is going to be sold officially and that's a good thing (unless you're a pirate that never pays for their stuff).

[TheFantasm]

Because they want to honor the wishes of the people who created the content? 

[Darklord Rooke]

I should point out that the Federal Court of Australia ordered the ISP addresses and contact information of all people who shared (pirated) 'Dallas Buyers Club' to be turned over to the copyright holders in America so they could pursue further action. After weighing things up they decided it wasn't worth it, but the lesson learnt was you can be exposed while in a different country. Cease and Desist works the same way, copyright doesn't stop once you hit a border.

Copyright is a thing, copyright infringement is a thing, the threat is very real, and it's up to the individual who will be affected to risk actions which potentially endanger themselves in the future - people not affected shouldn't have a say.

Snowden's seeking asylum in literally the only country willing to protect him. He's decidedly unhappy.

EDIT: In April 2015, the Court ordered ISPs to hand over contact information of those who downloaded the movie. However in August 2015 the court ruled that the ISPs needn't hand over contact information because the damages sought by the company was too great. And that in the court's mind, damages should be limited to the cost of the movie + a share of court costs. That being said, it means that Americans can potentially sue Australians for damages for copyright infringement. 

[Justin579]

37 minutes ago, XReaper said:

pretty optimistic, eh? tell this to him http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/12/23/kim-dotcom-extradition/77796736/

that is piracy. not translating something. big difference? 

34 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Youtube's entire copyright system operates on this principle.

But the police don't even get involved, again it's usually just the host of the site that is contacted about it. It doesn't cost a dime to do that.
All hosts have terms of service that websites must follow, and if your website is found to breach those terms and the host doesn't want to battle a cease and desist, then they can terminate you.
It's as simple as that, no law enforcement agents get involved.

Now yes, there are certain hosts in certain locations that don't care about DMCAs and C&D letters, but in the case of fan translators the whole thing is a tad bit different because you're the only person who holds the translation patch and so if they want they know they can invest money to stop you from releasing the patch and actually get real life law enforcement involved and you can go to jail if they find who you are, so it's pretty pointless to try and battle it.

Also, and I think this is a point you're ignoring, even if they can battle it most groups don't really want to or have a reason to battle licensing companies, they actually want to support the game, so they often quit before a C&D even arrives because the game is going to be sold officially and that's a good thing (unless you're a pirate that never pays for their stuff).

 ok so they close your site and you open a new one? You don't go to jail or get in trouble with the law so no problem? And I don't see why they would waste a penny in some kid translating a visual novel, they probably don't even know what that is. Or am i missing something?

[Darklord Rooke]

1 minute ago, Justin579 said:

that is piracy. not translating something. big difference? 

No. Both come under the heading of copyright infringement.

[Nosebleed]

11 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

ok so they close your site and you open a new one? You don't go to jail or get in trouble with the law so no problem? And I don't see why they would waste a penny in some kid translating a visual novel, they probably don't even know what that is. Or am i missing something?

Most Japanese companies don't send c&d's for translation patches though, so you're arguing for a case that has never happened in the past as far as I can tell (feel free to prove me wrong though). The ones that do send c&d's are licensing companies, typically located in the US, so they have to comply with US copyright law, which is one of the most strict out there.

And sure, even if you get c&d'd you can just make a new website, but you still run the same risks, so it's all a matter of "is it worth the effort".

It sounds to me like you're mostly upset that people stop when a licensing company gets the rights to distribute a visual novel in English. But unfortunately, c'est la vie. You have to understand translation groups themselves usually want companies to pick up titles and release them officially. Remember they're doing this out of love for the game/genre/company/medium, so fighting a c&d from the licensing company is pretty counter intuitive.

[Justin579]

9 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Most Japanese companies don't send c&d's for translation patches though, so you're arguing for a case that has never happened in the past as far as I can tell (feel free to prove me wrong though). The ones that do send c&d's are licensing companies, typically located in the US, so they have to comply with US copyright law, which is one of the most strict out there.

And sure, even if you get c&d'd you can just make a new website, but you still run the same risks, so it's all a matter of "is it worth the effort".

It sounds to me like you're mostly upset that people stop when a licensing company gets the rights to distribute a visual novel in English. But unfortunately, c'est la vie. You have to understand translation groups themselves usually want companies to pick up titles and release them officially. Remember they're doing this out of love for the game/genre/company/medium, so fighting a c&d from the licensing company is pretty counter intuitive.

No, no games i am dying to play have been c&d i am just wondering why they stopped. I don't really pay attetion to patches like i used to anyway. And that is why i said "unless a company licences it"

[Ningen]

I would say 95% of the companies don't really intend to do anything after the c&d and just hope you get scared.

 

[Nosebleed]

3 minutes ago, Justin579 said:

No, no games i am dying to play have been c&d i am just wondering why they stopped. I don't really pay attetion to patches like i used to anyway. And that is why i said "unless a company licences it"

Uh, then why did you add the c&d in the title if that wasn't the reason they stopped?
Perhaps the team just lost contact with each other, happens all the time.

[Justin579]

24 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Uh, then why did you add the c&d in the title if that wasn't the reason they stopped?
Perhaps the team just lost contact with each other, happens all the time.

I was not talking about any group i was talking about it just in general.

[Stormwolf]

1 hour ago, Stormwolf said:

Most people probably break into a sweat from the threat alone, and i wouldn't be surprised if the groups fell apart from within from the threat alone.

 

[Qrqe]

 And why would they have to risk themselves? I'd definitely stop as well, putting myself in such a risk even if its a pretty small one so people can play one visual novel and fap to it seems kind of idiotic.
 

[Stormwolf]

Ohh, i don't disagree with half of what you said, but it became stupid at the end. Translators spend thousands of hours translating this "fap" game, and you spend 20-50 hours playing this "fap" game. So i don't throw vn's into a bad light just to prove a point.

Though, instead of being attention whores, after a dmca etc, they could just go completely underground. Or go underground from the start (depending on the project at hand of course)

[Justin579]

3 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Ohh, i don't disagree with half of what you said, but it became stupid at the end. Translators spend thousands of hours translating this "fap" game, and you spend 20-50 hours playing this "fap" game. So i don't throw vn's into a bad light just to prove a point.

Though, instead of being attention whores, after a dmca etc, they could just go completely underground. Or go underground from the start (depending on the project at hand of course)

I always wondered that too. So if they got bored and didn't want to finish it they wouldn't be disappointing anyone either since no one would know.

[Darklord Rooke]

22 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Ohh, i don't disagree with half of what you said, but it became stupid at the end. Translators spend thousands of hours translating this "fap" game, and you spend 20-50 hours playing this "fap" game. So i don't throw vn's into a bad light just to prove a point.

Though, instead of being attention whores, after a dmca etc, they could just go completely underground. Or go underground from the start (depending on the project at hand of course)

And that would be their choice to make, not anybody elses. Especially considering the real threat comes after the patch is released, not during translation.

[Stormwolf]

Of course it's their choice. Don't get your panties in a twist, i've never said otherwise.

[Darklord Rooke]

3 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Of course it's their choice. Don't get your panties in a twist, i've never said otherwise.

Your post became stupid at the end. Throwing out an obvious piece of advice which most translators would have considered then discarded is fine, I suppose, categorising certain translators as 'attention whores' for keeping fans in the know is not.

[Stormwolf]

I love that throwback insult  

Keeping us in the know is good of course, but probably isn't the real reason for doing it all the time. Must be boring working on something, and no one knows about it. Must also be good to get all that praise when working. Yeah, it might just be attention whoring for some people/groups.

[Darklord Rooke]

8 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

I love that throwback insult  

Keeping us in the know is good of course, but probably isn't the real reason for doing it all the time. Must be boring working on something, and no one knows about it. Must also be good to get all that praise when working. Yeah, it might just be attention whoring for some people/groups.

Eh, it's late here (after 1) and people who know me knows I get cranky without sleep ... and because I average only 4 or 5 hours, it's one of the reasons I'm normally cranky.

Most translators in the fan community START partly for the attention, in my experience. The acclaim is a part of their compensation because they can't make any money. Making a dramatic final post wouldn't be THAT out of step with how fan-translators operate, and I'm not going to begrudge them their need to do things publicly.

EDIT: Eh, not worded right. But E-fame is a part of the fan-translation currency, sure. They probably have a good case for it, though.

[spademan]

Honestly if i ever fans translated and got c&d I would probably stop too. Going to assume that most fan tl groups don't actually know eachother IRL, so if we decided to ignore it, and law enforcement ever did get involved I'd highly doubt that some other person on the internet wouldn't give me or my group up to get a lesser punishment for themselves.