Valve threatening to remove VNs with adult content from steam?

[phantomJS]

Apparently @sanahtlig was talking about this:

https://techraptor.net/content/huniepop-other-adult-games-facing-removal-steam-store

Seems like even indirect help to install 18+ content page is not allowed.

What do you guys think?

[Ranzo]

Fucking valve they let a torrent of horrible, shitty, broken, asset flipping, fucking garbage games pollute their storefront every day and then get peeved about this. What a joke.

[Darklord Rooke]

It's always been their unofficial policy, but it was inconsistently applied. This lead to various people, including some connected with MG, to bemoan publicly the inconsistent application of the rules. Well HOORAY FOR EVERYONE looks like they're getting consistent, I hope everybody is happy  

[bakauchuujin]

Seems Nekoworks also got the same order regarding Tropical Liquor, because of this I think it is likely that many others will be hit by this very soon.

 

Edit: Seems Lupiesoft is also hit, gues we will soon hear titles from other companies like MG and SP getting threatened 

Edited May 18, 2018 by bakauchuujin

[sarkasmus]

Maybe I misinterpret what's wirtten in the article, but to me it doesn't sound like it's about the patches.

It seems more like Steam wants them to censor the already censored games even further.

[Dreamysyu]

2 minutes ago, sarkasmus said:

Maybe I misinterpret what's wirtten in the article, but to me it doesn't sound like it's about the patches.

It seems more like Steam wants them to censor the already censored games even further.

The thing is, from what I get, Steam doesn't even tell them what is wrong with their VNs. Basically, they say "follow the rules, or we'll delete your games".

[sanahtlig]

3 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

The thing is, from what I get, Steam doesn't even tell them what is wrong with their VNs. Basically, they say "follow the rules, or we'll delete your games".

Reminds me of the parenting style where a child misbehaves, 3 years pass, and then you slap her.  When she asks, "What was that for?!", you slap her again.

[sarkasmus]

1 minute ago, Dreamysyu said:

The thing is, from what I get, Steam doesn't even tell them what is wrong with their VNs. Basically, they say "follow the rules, or we'll delete your games".

That's the problem, but that's just another reason I don't think it's about the patches that's something they would've mentioned directly.

I think it's more likely they changed their definition of pornographic content from actual H-Scenes to highly suggestive content and simply expect everyone to share their opinion about it.

[r0xm2n]

I am starting to have it upto here with all this stupid censorship. For the most frivolous reasons too. This is so last century. Censorship can, and WILL be abused, for one reason or another. Every time.

On the other hand, this is just further proof we need the ability to self publish (one that can't be censored). That centralized platforms have to fade away.

[mitchhamilton]

meh, just means people will have to buy their porn somewhere else. i mean, sure this sucks for vns because the publicity they got from steam and such but its been years and whatever new customers were gained from steam might stay loyal to vns enough to buy them from their sources.

[Darklord Rooke]

20 minutes ago, sarkasmus said:

That's the problem, but that's just another reason I don't think it's about the patches that's something they would've mentioned directly.

I think it's more likely they changed their definition of pornographic content from actual H-Scenes to highly suggestive content and simply expect everyone to share their opinion about it.

There's a common misconception hanging around the definition of pornography. Porn does not equal h scenes. I'm going to grab the first def I come across cause I'm lazy

Pornography (noun): printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate sexual excitement.

[poptartguy87]

A lot of folks on the dev side of things are having collective strokes right now. Around this time last year, Steam told lots of developers and localization publishers alike that "what was okay" was 1. Proper age-gating for games with sexual content and 2. Censorship of genitalia. This is basically a complete 180.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the Maidens of Micheal disaster? I've also seen some people say it might have something to do with supposedly new digital age restriction laws in Washington (the state where Valve is based), which doesn't quite add up - why would eroge and games like Huniepop get hit, but not Western(-style) AAA games that also have sexual/adult content like Witcher 3?

It doesn't help that Valve has a weird way of managing things internally which is what results in all these inconsistencies and flip-flopping.

[sarkasmus]

4 minutes ago, Darklord Rooke said:

There's a common misconception hanging around the definition of pornography. Porn does not equal h scenes. I'm going to grab the first def I come across cause I'm lazy

Pornography (noun): printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate sexual excitement.

I know the textbook definitions, those don't neccessarily equal the ones used by companies for their guidelines though. Meaning the latter can change over time and if it isn't communicated properly, things like this happen.

[bakauchuujin]

5 minutes ago, poptartguy87 said:

why would eroge and games like Huniepop get hit, but not Western(-style) AAA games that also have sexual/adult content like Witcher 3?

Because it is much easier for people to prosecute niche things, if everyone knows about something you get a large backlash, but if you target something not well known in the mainstream it is hard to get people on your side since they have no idea what it is. This means that the vague laws regarding porn that can be found in many countires can be ignored in regard to some fiction due to it being mainstream, but applied to other fiction due to it being niche even though they both break the rule.

[Dergonu]

Hopefully this will finally lead to more companies selling adult titles off steam, like MG, instead of using steam + those silly patches as their only distribution platform. 

[mitchhamilton]

13 minutes ago, bakauchuujin said:

Because it is much easier for people to prosecute niche things, if everyone knows about something you get a large backlash, but if you target something not well known in the mainstream it is hard to get people on your side since they have no idea what it is. This means that the vague laws regarding porn that can be found in many countires can be ignored in regard to some fiction due to it being mainstream, but applied to other fiction due to it being niche even though they both break the rule.

er, it might also have something to do with scenes with full on penetration in either the characters mouths, vagina or ass or sometimes all 3 while in the end they cum all over the heroine.

[Hetzer123]

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Edited October 2, 2019 by Hetzer123

[Yuuko]

Everything is okay because DLsite has announced that they will start publishing games on Steam!!

...

 

or not?

Edited May 18, 2018 by Kiriririri

[VirginSmasher]

I'm pretty sure I predicted this whole thing happening at some point back in 2016. This is what happens when you become overly reliant on a platform that was already inconsistent with its 18+ content rules to begin with. Sure, it did improve the number of releases and grew the VN medium to heights that nobody predicted, but this was always gonna come back and bite the medium in the ass. If Valve actually become serious about this sort of thing, then I can see a few things happening.

1. A lot of JP VN companies will no longer have an incentive to localize their titles if Steam wipes out VNs from its catalog. Quite a few companies only got into the West because of the promise of Steam sales, like Frontwing.
2. Quite a few localization companies will be forced to localize more VNs that sell well as they find that the lack of Steam sales will cripple some of their financial gains. Aka, Mangagamer will possibly go back to 2012 Mangagamer.
3. With less JP companies becoming involved in the West, fan TLs will slowly start to come back into the spotlight. Have fun with mediocre TLs.

The only benefit I see from Steam doing this is that Moenovel can't half-ass their censored releases anymore, at least in terms of h-content.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see where the scene goes from here. Let's see how these localization companies adapt to these new changes. 

[Darklord Rooke]

15 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:

Either way, it'll be interesting to see where the scene goes from here. Let's see how these localization companies adapt to these new changes. 

Fakku launches a new platform exclusively for 18+ games.

People install it under protest, but install it all the same.

Fakku slowly takes over the West. Then the world.

[VirginSmasher]

3 minutes ago, Darklord Rooke said:

Fakku launches a new platform exclusively for 18+ games.

People install it under protest, but install it all the same.

Fakku slowly takes over the West. Then the world.

It'll be either Fakku or Dlsite at this point. 

Either way, I'm just glad the overreliance on the belief that Steam will be able to sell VNs for a company is coming to an end. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the long run.

[Dreamysyu]

21 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:

The only benefit I see from Steam doing this is that Moenovel can't half-ass their censored releases anymore, at least in terms of h-content.

If they continue to censor their game Konosora-style and don't release the 18+ version to begin with, Steam won't have any reason to delete their games. It means in the worst case Moenovel is pretty much the only VN company that is not going to be affected by this.

[VirginSmasher]

9 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

If they continue to censor their game Konosora-style and don't release the 18+ version to begin with, Steam won't have any reason to delete their games. It means in the worst case Moenovel is pretty much the only VN company that is not going to be affected by this.

If it has anime art, somebody will find a way to complain about it. 

[Infernoplex]

36 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:

With less JP companies becoming involved in the West, fan TLs will slowly start to come back into the spotlight. Have fun with mediocre TLs.

I agree with other points you made, but this one I just can't agree with. It sounds like you are implying that the official releases are always much better than fanTLs while that's not really the case. And not all fanTLs are "mediocre" either. Back in the day, official loc companies used to buy those same fanTLs.

[bakauchuujin]

Kindred spirits got hit as well

Edited May 18, 2018 by bakauchuujin