Hello, Goodbye Steam Storepage Removed

[Antera]

Ok its time to RIOT!!! I mean common steam make dame rules clear >_>

[adamstan]

It was there yesterday? (I had it on my Steam wishlist...)

[Alcorin]

Wasn't that precisely the thing that was NOT supposed to happen anymore? Make up your goddamn mind, Steam >:(

[Ranzo]

You say goodbye and I say hello

[Freestyle80]

well MG announced its gonna be released next week just yesterday so shouldnt effect anything 

 

probably delayed release on steam

[ShinRaikdou]

5 minutes ago, Freestyle80 said:

well MG announced its gonna be released next week just yesterday so shouldnt effect anything 

 

probably delayed release on steam

What? It's NekoNyan title. You probably mistake it with " If You Love Me, Then Say So! ", but MG said that they don't have date for Steam release.

[Freestyle80]

39 minutes ago, ShinRaikdou said:

What? It's NekoNyan title. You probably mistake it with " If You Love Me, Then Say So! ", but MG said that they don't have date for Steam release.

ah shit yeah my bad, mixed them up

 

hmm, thats strange then last time Nekonyan didnt seem to have too much issues, dammit steam

 

EDIT: Seems like they have no idea either- 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Freestyle80

[Dergonu]

And once again, Steam picks up their pitchforks. Not only are they removing store pages for VNs, they are banning them, which means that you can no longer submit an altered version; if they ban your title, it's banned for good. No going back. (In the past you could submit a new, altered version to get your game on steam, and they only banned very specific games like Key to Home, but now they aren't allowing this at all, I guess.)

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Dergonu said:

And once again, Steam picks up their pitchforks. Not only are they removing store pages for VNs, they are banning them, which means that you can no longer submit an altered version; if they ban your title, it's banned for good. No going back. (In the past you could submit a new, altered version to get your game on steam, and they only banned very specific games like Key to Home, but now they aren't allowing this at all, I guess.)

How about you show sources for your claims or don't post at all

[Dergonu]

48 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:

How about you show sources for your claims or don't post at all

I don't see why I need to give proof to make a post, but sure. 

It's talked about in this twitter chain, for instance. (And other places on twitter related to VNs; just use the search button.) 

There is also the Imolicious situation, where the devs were simply told they were not allowed to submit their game because it had content exploiting children. (Even though it clearly didn't.) Just look up the dev on twitter for more info. 

And of course, Key to Home, which was already banned a while back. These are just some examples. 

There is also this.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Dergonu
Added more "sources"

[adamstan]

From various discussions it seems that there are two employees at Valve that are on personal crusade against VNs, as they're apparently responsible for almost all recent VN bans.

(from https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/12/valve-reneges-on-not-being-the-taste-police-bans-hello-goodbye-vn-from-steam/72946/)

Quote

Now in majority of these cases (although it hasn’t been confirmed with Cross Love) only two of Valve’s employees have been banning the games from Steam, Jason Ruymen and Arisa Sudangnoi.

And going after censored/all-ages releases is completely ridiculous.

Another one from reddit discussion:

Quote

It's not an oversight, Steam has a flat structure, there's nobody above anybody else to check or prevent anything, they've been pretty proud of it in the past but its flaws are pretty clear these days

That was posetd as response to the "Why nobody supervises it?"

Edited December 5, 2018 by adamstan

[Alcorin]

...Is it bad to hope that they get fired? ;v;

[adamstan]

No, but it's futile

[LemiusK]

Can't say I'm too surprised. This type of heavy censorship feels like it's inevitable, like something that would happen in a matter of time in this day and age, where everything needs to be squeaky clean and "safe for work" for everyone to extreme levels.

Putting that aside, since they also banned censored/all-ages versions of VNs, I think it's more likely due to the second factor regarding Steam users and a number of gamers over the years: a prejudice against VNs. "They are not real video games." I'm not surprised at all someone over at Steam has an axe to grind towards the medium. 

Well, the good news is, Steam is just a platform. It's just one of the ways you could easily access games and softwares. It's not as if the entire Internet is banning VNs from western media for good, so that's something. I understand that Steam is a significant means of convenience for gamers, but Steam is not the be all and end all of video gaming. There are disadvantages in owning digital copies of games, after all, more so if those digital copies were bought from a single corporation like Steam. 

When I was a kid, I was playing games and buying physical copies just fine before something like Steam even existed. And even if you consider the convenience of digital copies, you still have other companies that offer digital copies too, like GOG.

Edited December 5, 2018 by LemiusK

[UnlimitedMoeWorks]

Sigh... I really didn't want to come back to Fuwanovel after having said my goodbyes but...

This news. THIS FUCKING NEWS, pisses me off! Just when I thought I would jump ship from Sony to Steam, this happens. Now I'm convinced Steam has an anti-anime agenda.

Just why? Why does the west hate the anime medium and anything related to it so much? What has anime ever done to deserve this kind of treatment? I don't even... God, this pisses me off so much that it was enough to bring me back here.

[Swim Swim]

Two of Valve’s employees have been banning the games from Steam, Jason Ruymen and Arisa Sudangnoi.

[UnlimitedMoeWorks]

1 minute ago, Swim Swim said:

Two of Valve’s employees have been banning the games from Steam, Jason Ruymen and Arisa Sudangnoi.

Gabe freakin' Newell, what the hell are you doing allowing your very own employees to call the shots on what VNs can and cannot be allowed on Steam? What next? Are they going to go on a crusade and ban all JRPGs with an anime aesthetic?

47 minutes ago, LemiusK said:

I think it's more likely due to the second factor regarding Steam users and a number of gamers over the years: a prejudice against VNs.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's also the case. I've been with the Steam community before, and a lot of the users are so anti-anime that they'll throw slander at anyone who has an anime avatar. If they're giving Valve more incentive to ban these games, this will be problematic in the future.

[Stormwolf]

Just now, UnlimitedMoeWorks said:

Gabe freakin' Newell, what the hell are you doing allowing your very own employees to call the shots on what VNs can and cannot be allowed on Steam? What next? Are they going to go on a crusade and ban all JRPGs with an anime aesthetic?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's also the case. I've been with the Steam community before, and a lot of the users are so anti-anime that they'll throw slander at anyone who has an anime avatar. If they're giving Valve more incentive to ban these games, this will be problematic in the future.

Not to be rude or anything, but didn't you make a dramatic exit from the forums about 10 days ago?

[Swim Swim]

3 minutes ago, UnlimitedMoeWorks said:

Gabe freakin' Newell, what the hell are you doing allowing your very own employees to call the shots on what VNs can and cannot be allowed on Steam? What next? Are they going to go on a crusade and ban all JRPGs with an anime aesthetic?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's also the case. I've been with the Steam community before, and a lot of the users are so anti-anime that they'll throw slander at anyone who has an anime avatar. If they're giving Valve more incentive to ban these games, this will be problematic in the future.

"Dear Mr. Newell

Please open an internal investigation on two employees working for you - Jason Ruymen and Arisa Sudangnoi. They are alleged to be responsible for the continued censorship of niche anime-styled games under the guise of 'child exploitation'. This contradicts Valve's previous statements about not being the 'taste police', and calls into question the legitimacy of your company's commitment to give gamers the freedom to buy and play what they want.

Please resolve this."
 

https://www.valvesoftware.com/it/contact?contact-person=Gabe Newell

[UnlimitedMoeWorks]

3 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Not to be rude or anything, but didn't you make a dramatic exit from the forums about 10 days ago?

Well, this is a special occasion, because this news pissed me off. I just had to come back on to give my two cents, or it would've bugged me for days to come.

While I don't care for VNs very much, what Valve is doing is going way too far, and it may very well affect the future of all anime games on Steam.

Edited December 5, 2018 by UnlimitedMoeWorks

[LemiusK]

12 minutes ago, UnlimitedMoeWorks said:

Gabe freakin' Newell, what the hell are you doing allowing your very own employees to call the shots on what VNs can and cannot be allowed on Steam? What next? Are they going to go on a crusade and ban all JRPGs with an anime aesthetic?

If they're giving Valve more incentive to ban these games, this will be problematic in the future.

Initially, I wanted to say something along the lines of, "Where will such anti-anime sentiment stop? Would Netflix cancel all their anime releases too?" But now that I think about it, anime being brought to the west is a very profitable business. Valve being anti-anime would only be shooting themselves in the foot, losing out on a potential golden goose. It just doesn't make sense.

 

12 minutes ago, UnlimitedMoeWorks said:

I've been with the Steam community before, and a lot of the users are so anti-anime that they'll throw slander at anyone who has an anime avatar.

To be fair, that kind of resentment has been present throughout many non-anime western communities for a long time, not just Steam. The fact that Steam was selling anime-themed video games just gave those detractors a more mainstream forum to openly preach their hatred to more people who would listen, continuing the cycle of blind hate. Plus, it's just that easy to generalize all anime with weeabooism, or generalize anime with VNs at all for that matter.

On a sidenote, I doubt Gabe Newell would bother making any improvements at all for Valve or Steam. For starters... WHERE IS HALF-LIFE 3, DAMMIT?! 

Edited December 5, 2018 by LemiusK

[Stormwolf]

If they're targeting vn's with depiction of child pornography (loli's) then i can't really fault them. Many countries doesn't allow the import of vn's, especially with loli's, and steam could potentially get sued for it and face serious repercussions. They might simply not want to have depiction of children having sex in the first place? It's a grey area for vn's since it's drawn and not real, but that doesn't change a thing once the lawsuits start raining.

I'm sure loli lowers will argue this until their faces turn blue, but the fact is that it's small girls/boys having sex. It will be controversial no matter how you twist and turn it.

Censoring and removing regular vn's is just pure idiocy though and likely nothing but agenda driven.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Stormwolf

[LemiusK]

Just now, Stormwolf said:

If they're targeting vn's with depiction of child pornography (loli's) then i can't really fault them. Many countries doesn't allow the import of vn's, especially with loli's, and steam could potentially get sued for it and face serious repercussions. They might not want to have depiction of children having sex in the first place? It's a grey area for vn's since it's drawn and not real, but that doesn't change a thing once the lawsuits start raining.

I'm sure loli lowers will argue this until their faces turn blue, but the fact is that it's small girls/boys having sex. It will be controversial no matter how you twist and turn it.

Well, to begin with, a lot of VNs begin their game with the message, "All girls depicted are at least 18 years old of age" or something like that if I'm correct. And even if I'm wrong, I don't really recall that many VNs with lolis as a love interest. Those that look child-like, yes, but they are still fully grown women of age who happen to have a younger-looking face.

[Stormwolf]

2 minutes ago, LemiusK said:

Well, to begin with, a lot of VNs begin their game with the message, "All girls depicted are at least 18 years old of age" or something like that if I'm correct. And even if I'm wrong, I don't really recall that many VNs with lolis as a love interest. Those that look child-like, yes, but they are still fully grown women of age who happen to have a younger-looking face.

They do, but when you show a girl looking like she's 9-12, acting like she's that age and even speaking like a kid, then that doesn't hold up. It just doesn't.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Stormwolf

[Swim Swim]

Just now, Stormwolf said:

They do, but when you show a girl looking like she's 9-12, then that doesn't hold up. It just doesn't.

Drawings arent real so they dont have rights and neither ages....You can commit mass murders in several popular western game, yet as I recall murder also illegal in RL. So by ur logic everything should be banned in games thats illegal in RL... Damn, SJW's allows no fun in games