What are your thoughts on sibling routes in VNs?

[Nosebleed]

I don't really start topics often but this one might be a bit controversial in some ways and i'd like to hear people's opinions.

 

First off i am assuming that the sibling in this scenario is blood-related or at least half-blood related to the protagonist.

Non blood-related characters to me are just like any other character and are not what i want to discuss here.

 

Secondly, by sibling i mean any kind of direct blood relation wether they are older or younger than the protagonist, just to avoid mistakes with the popular Imouto arch type characters.

 

What i want to ask is:

 

1) Do you like routes in Visual Novels where the protagonist ends up with their sibling? Why or why not?

 

2) Do you think it's okay to portray such events in these fictional works that are considered taboo/crime in most countries/societies around the world?

 

My personal answer:

 

1) Yes i do indeed, they are one of my 3 favorite archtypes of heroines and they are often one of the routes i like the most when playing a Visual Novel.

As to why. Personally i think what drives me the most to these routes is the underlying taboo theme within it. The impossible love, something that in real life could not be achieved. It's interesting to me to see how real or unreal these scenarios are. Ideally the protagonist and the heroine would live happily ever after, however if it was realistic at all it wouldn't be all sunshine and rainbows and that's why i enjoy playing out these routes. I want to see how far they take it, how strong this forbidden love really is between the two characters and if it works out i want it to be realistic, i want it to depict bittersweeteness, i want to see the characters realise what they are doing and how they feel about it and ultimately if they are willing to sacrifice things for their love. In real life this would most likely bear severe consequences and it's not like someone's just going to decide to do it to test it out. That's why these what if scenarios are interesting, they are the most fictional scenarios in the VN (leaving aside supernatural stuff) that are still connected to real life, albeit socially not acceptable. Seeing such a forbidden love be depicted for me is an extremely enjoyable read as i love intense romance and that is why these routes tend to be one of my favorites.

 

2) I guess this is where the controversy starts. To me seeing such relationships be depicted doesn't affect my preferences, i still find my 3D sister extremely annoying, however i do have a problem with certain scenarios, ones that end happily ever after and no one's hurt, idealistic scenarios that would be impossible in real life. Stuff like that is for me unreasonable and who knows someone might get the wrong idea from it. Though i think in the end it all comes down to the reader's maturity. Seeing incest stories or reading about them as works of fiction doesn't affect me at all, i would never have such feelings in real life torwards my sibling, separating reality from fiction is the crucial key here and that's what starts controversy. To the Japan government depicting such acts even in works of fiction is pretty much illegal and as a result most VNs now tend to use the half-blood related or non-blood related sibling card to avoid any trouble and I get it, that wouldn't give anyone the wrong impression that they can suddenly like their sibling. However to me that also leaves a huge hole lacking for intense romance stories that depict the taboo, the forbbiden, the unattainable. As a reader i greatly appreciate these and it's sad for me that they're starting to disappear. But as a citizen i guess i could say that such works could give the wrong impression to easily impressionable people and as such it'll probably be illegal to release these works of fiction in the years to come. 

 

Bottom line from me is: Separate reality from fiction and enjoy both seperately without mixing feelings.

 

Mind you this is my personal opinion only, i don't wish to generate hate in the forums, merely a civilized enough debate and opinion sharing.

[nohman]

1) Eeeeeh... mostly no. It's got nothing to do with the stigma associated with incest. It's just that how easily the familial relationship falls wayside in favor of a physically intimite one just never clicks with me.  I would be very interested in seeing it wholly played straight in a realistic way however. Plus little sister type characters do less than nothing for me.

 

2) It's unequivocally okay. Portraying such events harms absolutely no one.

[Nosebleed]

1) Eeeeeh... mostly no. It's got nothing to do with the stigma associated with incest. It's just that how easily the familial relationship falls wayside in favor of a physically intimite one just never clicks with me.  I would be very interested in seeing it wholly played straight in a realistic way however. Plus little sister type characters do less than nothing for me.

 

2) It's unequivocally okay. Portraying such events harms absolutely no one.

I'll agree on that,i don't like idealistic impossible scenarios either. I used the word sibling as the title to include both older and younger sister archtypes, though what i want to get at is not the arch type of the character but rather the relationship they have with the protagonist.

 

I agree in my prespective there's no harm either, however if it was like that worldwide it wouldn't be considered harmful material in many cases. Maybe they're accounting that we're all unreasonable people?

[Kitouski]

1.) I generally dislike the sibling routes. They generate a lot of drama over a plot point (them being siblings) that, to me, I just couldn't care about. That and it seems to be the thing to make sisters tsunderes. I really hate tsunderes.

 

2.) One of the best selling video game series of all time Call of Duty, Sherlock Homes books and horror movies with a large enough backing to make a profit after spending millions of dollars in development don't make murderers. The billions and billions of dollars porn industry doesn't make rapists. Stories with incest romance doesn't make incest. People have a right to be offended by it and not play it, but they don't have a right to make people conform to their tastes, thus I find any work of fiction of any sort okay. Real life circumstances have nothing to do with fiction. It's considered harmful worldwide because a lot of people don't like the concept of it. A lot of people don't like the concept of a lot of things. Problem is, it's just concepts.

[RusAnon]

1) Depends. Its okay with neesan, but not okay for underage imoutos. It was really annoying that I had to complete Chinami route in hoshimemo to read true end.

2) No fiction should be ever outlawed.

 

 

I agree in my prespective there's no harm either, however if it was like that worldwide it wouldn't be considered harmful material in many cases. Maybe they're accounting that we're all unreasonable people?

 

Generally, you shouldn't expect "reason", "accounting" and "common sense" from authorities. There would be no NSA, "Patriot Act" and other pointless (from citizen perspective) stuff if they would actually care about "reason".

[Clephas]

1) Depends. Its okay with neesan, but not okay for underage imoutos. It was really annoying that I had to complete Chinami route in hoshimemo to read true end.

2) No fiction should be ever outlawed.

 

Number 2

[Nosebleed]

Generally, you shouldn't expect "reason", "accounting" and "common sense" from authorities. There would be no NSA, "Patriot Act" and other pointless (from citizen perspective) stuff if they would actually care about "reason".

Well you do have a point there, it just saddens me quite a bit that it's like that.

 

 

1) Depends. Its okay with neesan, but not okay for underage imoutos. It was really annoying that I had to complete Chinami route in hoshimemo to read true end.

2) No fiction should be ever outlawed.

I'll admit i'm an imouto type but this topic includes any sort of direct blood relation. What's important for me is the scenario and how it's played out rather than the type of heroine, even though i prefer imoutos they can still be terrible if the story is poorly written.

 

Indeed no fiction should be outlawed , that includes things i like and things i hate, i simply won't look at the things i hate, we'd all live happily ever after if it were like that.

[Kimimaro]

1) Actually, I'm not really into Immoto type (I just watched "Oreimo" without knowing it was siscon anime, LOL)
I prefer Tsudere type

2) I think it's alright as everyone has his/her own preferences

[trustmeplease]

1) Actually, I'm not really into Immoto type (I just watched "Oreimo" without knowing it was siscon anime, LOL)

I prefer Tsudere type

2) I think it's alright as everyone has his/her own preferences

i agree with you

[shcboomer]

1) It's interesting in most cases and is quite enjoyable to read/watch. It's usually really cute and adorable in a sense.

2) Tough question to answer.

[pandahao]

1) I don't mind if it was an optional route, but it's definitely not something i'd be super excited over.

2) It's okay to portray these things because everyone is different with different tastes. Just like every society is different and have different ways in managing things.

[Silvachief]

I have a comment already written up on this, so i'll just post that

 

TL;DR:

 

1. I neither like nor dislike them, though I think that they have to acknowledge that there is something questionable about their relationship. No like Hoshizora no Memoria where the whole thing is sidestepped completely.

 

2. I think it's fine if it's done tastefully.

 

While i'm an only child and therefore don't have any real experience to go with, I can imagine loving a little sister and wanting to protect her. Moving into romantic feelings, however, would be unthinkable for me personally. Though I know this is a cliché, love is not something that can be controlled and it is therefore entirely possible for a legitimate relationship to develop between siblings. It's not societally acceptable for various reasons, but a genuine, loving relationship between two such people very much has the potential to occur. It's unlikely, yes, but for that reason I feel that it isn't right to say that no imouto incest story could ever be good, because who are we to dictate that no such relationship could be worthwhile?

 

Whether an anime imouto incest tale could ever be good is another story entirely, just because of how any such idea is going to be portrayed in the anime medium. I think there are 2 cases where it could be done well though:

 

1. Where the imouto incest story becomes secondary to other plot. It's still there, and it's still a focus, but it facilitates the telling of another story. With this type I think you could include all of the normal hallmarks of imouto incest anime, namely fan service and comedy.

 

2. Something that tries to take the issues at hand seriously. Two people that love each other but are seriously conflicted over their feelings. Being spurned by other loved ones and friends, rejected because of how they feel. Coming to terms with why other people react that way, but also why they shouldn't have to feel ashamed for loving another human being. This type would have to avoid tropes like the plague and attempt to be serious from start to finish. Comedy could be included, but not the over-the-top stuff, and not anything regarding the central relationship.

 

Others may disagree, but I think it's wrong to dismiss those stories outright, even if most of them focus on the wrong things.

[Aggressor]

1) I'm really into incest, especiall twincest. I love to watch their relationship evolving from siblings to lovers, and I like a good deal of realism in it where the siblings have to stand against moral assaults of society to defend their relationship. That said, I'm not into typical imoutos – I like my twinsisters mature, strong-willed and able to answer for the consequences of their actions.

 

2) I don't care about taboo (mind telling me which country treats 18+ incest as a crime?), and I often looking for a VNs with good incest routes, so yeah, it's perfectly okay. I wouldn't mind it in real life (before you ask: I don't have a sister), so why should I mind it in my VNs?

[Sioxz]

well i am huge fan off shota and shotacon is often incest(aunt,onee-san) and as long as it's ficonal i have no problem with it but it's a bit bad that it ain't a lot off TLd vn's so i mostly enjoy my shota fetish in doujins wich there is alot off

[Nosebleed]

1) I'm really into incest, especiall twincest. I love to watch their relationship evolving from siblings to lovers, and I like a good deal of realism in it where the siblings have to stand against moral assaults of society to defend their relationship. That said, I'm not into typical imoutos – I like my twinsisters mature, strong-willed and able to answer for the consequences of their actions.

 

2) I don't care about taboo (mind telling me which country treats 18+ incest as a crime?), and I often looking for a VNs with good incest routes, so yeah, it's perfectly okay. I wouldn't mind it in real life (before you ask: I don't have a sister), so why should I mind it in my VNs?

I'd have  to say i'm into both the serious and the moe clichéd imoutos, depends on my mood mostly.

 

There's plenty of regions that treat it as an actual crime punishable by law (eg: Canada, Certain states in the USA, United Kindgom, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Romania, Ireland, Switzerland, and others.) though most regions worldwide just have the taboo stigma associated to these actions, understandable enough. Where i live it's completely legal if both parties are over 18 (Albeit for marriage). As far as to  wether i'm okay with it in real life i'd have to agree it's okay for 2 consentual adults, love is love and that's the bottom line. Though i could never imagine myself liking my younger sister that way and i believe for most families with siblings this is also true, you're pretty much raised in an environment where you're either constantly butting heads or you have feelings of protection torwards them (or both), that said it's just unreasonable to think love feelings would sprout out of nowhere in this environment. Of course incest cases will always exist but i don't believe they have these circumstances because all i can think of when i think about my sister is how annoying she is 90% of the times. That said i guess i'm pretty okay with it in any case as long as the feelings are legitimate and both parties are mentally mature to understand their actions (preferably if they are over 18).

[Aggressor]

I'd have  to say i'm into both the serious and the moe clichéd imoutos, depends on my mood mostly.

I admit that I read moe imouto routes sometimes too, but there're none of them in my top imouto hit-parade. Oh, and in case someone is interested, here are they, starting from the best:

http://vndb.org/c3214

http://vndb.org/c553

http://vndb.org/c12017

http://vndb.org/c8524

[p4izanagi]

1) Do you like routes in Visual Novels where the protagonist ends up with their sibling? Why or why not?

Neither , im just accustomed seeing love , and being different and have a different way to see the world or love somebody, i respect ppl like that , rather  than hate it or saying you should'nt do that.

2) Do you think it's okay to portray such events in these fictional works that are considered taboo/crime in most countries/societies around the world?

and even its fictional it happens in every country, but they hide the facts quite good.

its okay, if the ppl do understand the contents itself, in my country "Indonesia" its a crime and considered a taboo among a lot of people and if you even like this kind of thing , you get the new "Freak" of this bla bla, and my country is mostly dont accept stuff like that, heck even anime is considered taboo due its come from Japanase. but i hope my country try to accept different culture rather than ignore it and let it flow.

 

and if my post contains some harsh language , feel free to warn me

[Isaac]

1) I haven't encountered a straight-up sister route, unless if you count the surprise twist ones.

 

2) I think it's justified if the siblings weren't together most of their lives, because, biologically, even if they aren't blood related they will still not fall in love. Good writing might avert it, though.

[zoom909]

Basically I think it's one of the worst things about eroge, and helps ensure that I will never be a true fan of eroge.

 

So yeah, I avoid 'em like the plague, I will never play a sibling route unless they're not true siblings, and if the primary heroine is your sibling then I'll dismiss the entire VN.  Even cousin routes I don't relish, but I accept them on the grounds that if I threw those out, too, why even bother with eroge...

 

Personally, I am well aware that immoral thoughts such as incest can warp my mind if I over-expose myself, just as surely as too much cigarettes or trans fats can ruin my body.

What you absorb into your body becomes your body.

What you absorb into your mind becomes your mind.

That's how I see it.

[Joyjason]

I guess I'll participate for teh lawls

 

1) Do you like routes in Visual Novels where the protagonist ends up with their sibling? Why or why not?

I'm staying neutral on this, because it really depends on the scenario. Some "sibling" routes are very nice (such as Sakuno's route from Mashiroiro Symphony), but a large majority of them sucks balls and do not even discuss or imply the taboo (from the top of my head, I can think of Sakura no Reply). While it is arguable for me to stick to the "I generally hate it" side due to my larger experience with crappy sibling routes, I still can't trash the good ones I've seen until now (Astraythem is another one... I'm thinking them as I type this XD)

 

2) Do you think it's okay to portray such events in these fictional works that are considered taboo/crime in most countries/societies around the world?

What's going to happen? At least in 'murica, straight up porn is available freely, and you're allowed to do essentially anything unless it harms anyone. No one's being harmed by a story that does not have to be read, so I don't see why it's a problem anywhere. 

[Yeah Way]

1. No more than other archetypes. There are some sibling characters I like (Minato, from "Akane Iro ni Somaru Saka") and some whose route I like despite the character's not being particularly good (Chinami, from "Hoshizora no Memoria"). 

 

2. Yes. Creative freedom for all.

[nohman]

allowed to do essentially anything unless it harms anyone.

 

This might be nitpicking, but we do have such things as victimless crimes in America. Though you can argue  if any crime is really 'victimless' as they may have secondary effects in a broad sense or undermine societal values.

[InvertMouse]

1) I've never read through a sibling route that really moved me. With social barriers ingrained in our heads, it'd be pretty challenging to write a good scenario. That is, unless the reader is already a fan of that type of thing.

 

2) As mentioned by a few others earlier, writers should be open to explore all topics, even taboo ones. If we all pretend it doesn't exist, that just leads to people wanting to play with the idea even more. I would, however, might be concerned if the scenario encourages that type of relationship. There's no need to go too far to say it's a horrible thing, either. Just explore the topic and let people draw their own conclusions.

[Naraku93]

Well, those routes are what caused me to start reading Visual Novel, I'm a great fan of incest stories, so yes, I do like them.

However I do like those routes much more when Incest is treated as a serious subject, I personally dislike it when incest routes are used only for comic purpose.

[Hououin_Kyouma]

I am quite a fan of incest,though a majority of incest route's or VN's with incest route,are quite tricky,more often the main protagonist discovers that his sister isn't his real sister at all,sometime its the other way around but nevertheless I still enjoy it,I admit it really make's me sound like some sort of pedophile but its still enjoyable and very cute >.<