To All VN Licensors and Publishers - Why We Want R18 Patches For Our Games

[KingDragoYT]

We don't want the r18 patches purely because we want to jerk ourselves off to the H-scenes. We don't want to see censoring just because we want to get off on the CG's. We just want the full experience. Remember the purpose in why your licensing these titles. To give us, the western audience, the same experience the locals are getting. To share the full experience with us so we can connect with the local counterparts and bond with them over these titles. And I can assure you friendship had been born because of this. But censoring and cutting out parts of the game isn't going to achieve that. Remember there are always r18 versions and all age versions available for the local (Japanese) community/market, so why not for us too. I'm talking to you MoeNovels. To you SakuraGames. To you Fruitbat Factory.

 

From now on when I mention r18 ver of the game, i mean a fully untouched game, only translated, not censored, with nothing cut out. 

Hey MoeNovels, Give us the FULL version of the It My Heart Had Wings Series and A Sky Full of Stars, with H-scenes and all the stuff you cut out. Nothing changed, nothing added, nothing cut out, just translated with quality into English. That's all we ask. You can keep satisfying Steam with your censored stuff like the ones you're doing now, but please. And I really beg of you. Please release a r18 ver of it. 

 

Hey Fruitbat Factory, Please. Please give us a full version. A r18 version. A non edited, non censored, pure original version just translated with quality into English, of The Princess, The Stray Cat and The Matters of the Heart. A game that's fan service centered and filled with H-scenes should not be censored and given to the West like this. It's like serving a spaghetti without the pasta. It just doesn't work. Or at least do what you did with Eiyuu Senki and hand the censored, cutted out stuff and H-scenes and everything to another company. Please I beg of you. This is an extremely good title. Don't mess it up. Again it's fine if you want to make a censored game, but at least give us an option to experience to fill version of the game. The full experience. 

I beg of you. There are many good titles that have been picked up from you guys. You can still fix them. There are also titles yet to be picked up. Don't make the same mistakes you've done and give us, the audience, the consumers, what we really want. I can say for a fact that we are loyal to the medium, but we are not fools as well. We know when the consume and when not to. You don't need to change stuff and add things. Just keep it untouched and do good translations. By all means am I not belittling how hard it is in this industry but please. Make it right. 

 

[Infernoplex]

You're writing in vain. None of the companies you mentioned give a shit about us.

Also... Fruitbat is not the one who fucked up Noratoto. It was Harukaze that decided to do the console version instead of adult one. Most titles that Fruitbat localized are all-ages to begin with.

[bakauchuujin]

9 minutes ago, KingDragoYT said:

I'm talking to you MoeNovels. To you SakuraGames.

Pretty sure both these publishers don't give a damn about VN fans and I would assume that they are never going to bother looking up this forum. Not sure about fruitbat though, maybe they would check fuwa sometimes possibly.

[solidbatman]

This is the one, this is the post that will finally get us our anime titty back into VNs

[Yuuko]

OP negotiating with visual novel publishers [Colorized]

[Plk_Lesiak]

3 hours ago, KingDragoYT said:

Hey Fruitbat Factory, Please. Please give us a full version. A r18 version.

Please leave Fruitbat out of this. They localised the console version, which, as far as I know, is a proper port with replacement scenes etc. They didn't consor/edit anything. They could reject the project altogether, but that could mean no Noraneko release at all. Focus on actual censorship, instead of pushing this argument that every all-ages version of a VN is lesser by default. I'm sick of the fact that every modification to a game that removes or reduces porn is automatically starting a shit storm no matter how it's done, with this BS premise that it's about "integrity" and not fapping material. Sure, h-scenes are always inserted to VNs for "integrity" and "artistic expression" and not shuehorned in as fanservice. That's how things work in the skewed fantasy world of VNfanverse.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Plk_Lesiak

[Novel21]

Well Said and i 100 ÷ agree with you, I wish Moenovel would just quit and stop ruined VN, it's like they are doing on purpose for to turtore us.

I can't say anything about Sakuragames or Fruitfactory since I don't know much about them.

[Wildbreed]

1 hour ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Please leave Fruitbat out of this. They localised the console version, which, as far as I know, is a proper port with replacement scenes etc. They didn't consor/edit anything. They could reject the project altogether, but could mean no Noraneko release at all. Focus on actual censorship, instead of pushing this argument that every all-ages version of a VN is lesser by default. I'm sick of the fact that every modification to a game that removes or reduces porn is automatically starting a shit storm no matter how it's done, with this BS premise that it's about "integrity" and not fapping material. Sure, h-scenes are always inserted to VNs for "integrity" and "artistic expression" and not shuehorned in as fanservice. That's how things work in the skewed fantasy world of VNfanverse.

While i am not saying that every all ages VN is lesser by default.. however the main selling point of  most VNs is its Sexual content followed by its completeness meaning you can finish reading from start to finish and finally the added depth of characters...

VN is just a a Western term..  they were basically called Bishoujo games  when they first started out mainly concentrating of Sexual Content and having relationship with Heroines of your choosing...This is what gave them momentum .. eroge is just a modern word for them ....   Sexual Content is the main aspect here.. you cannot just remove it if it is the main selling point of your  VN.. Noratoto especially..

Hell i could just watch/read  Mangas/Animes like  Mayoi Neko Over Run, Asobi ni Ikuyo or Nyan Koi etc...all offer experience similar to Noratoto .....   The only thing that makes Noratoto special is the H content in it.. which you wont get to experience in the latter 3 ..Thats what most VNs are all about.. so when you omit and remove the content the outcry in my opinion is justified.. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Wildbreed

[Plk_Lesiak]

38 minutes ago, Wildbreed said:

While i am not saying that every all ages VN is lesser by default.. however the main selling point of  most VNs is its Sexual content followed by its completeness meaning you can finish reading from start to finish and finally the added depth of characters...

VN is just a a Western term..  they were basically called Bishoujo games  when they first started out mainly concentrating of Sexual Content and having relationship with Heroines of your choosing...This is what gave them momentum .. eroge is just a modern word for them ....   Sexual Content is the main aspect here.. you cannot just remove it if it is the main selling point of your  VN.. Noratoto especially..

Hell i could just watch/read  Mangas/Animes like  Mayoi Neko Over Run, Asobi ni Ikuyo or Nyan Koi etc...all offer experience similar to Noratoto .....   The only thing that makes Noratoto special is the H content in it.. which you wont get to experience in the latter 3 ..Thats what most VNs are all about.. so when you omit and remove the content the outcry in my opinion is justified.. 

18

Well, I don't fully agree, as SoL storytelling in VNs IS different than that of manga or anime. It has very different pacing and obviously includes multi-route dynamic that is completely absent in most other media. But even if you were right, what exactly is that sexual content? In most console releases, rated 17+, fanservice is still present. The only thing missing is straight-up h-scenes and those have one purpose – fapping. I don't say there's anything wrong with that and I don't fault anyone for protecting their access to translated porn of their choice. It's the BS philosophy people add to hide what they're actually after that irritates me.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Plk_Lesiak

[Wildbreed]

4 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Well, I don't fully agree, as SoL storytelling in VNs IS different than that of manga or anime. It has very different pacing and obviously includes multi-route dynamic that is completely absent in most from most other media. But even if you were right, what exactly is that sexual content? In most console releases, rated 17+, fanservice is still present. The only thing missing is straight-up h-scenes and those have one purpose – fapping. I don't say there's anything wrong with that and I don't fault anyone for protecting their access to translated porn of their choice. It's the BS philosophy people add to hide what they're actually after that irritates me.

Well yea there are some who dont straight out say that its the H content that counts for them..i honestly dont understand why tho.. is the need to hide it.. i mean  for me at-least i want my H scenes in the VN.. especially if the original JP release has them.. then theres no reason for US to get an inferior product.. Do you honestly think  Noratoto  would've sold well in Japan if they would've removed H Scenes from it.. i doubt it..

consoles are different.. tbh i dont like to compare PC to consoles.. consoles have their own rules and guidelines which hamper them in more ways than one.. and most of those are irrelevant to PC .

Had i bought Noratoto on my switch i wouldn't have complained as much as i did on reddit.. afterall i wouldbe getting the same experience as JP switch users.. i cant say the same for PC ..

also If you dont get verbal about it and just keep buying such release.. then the ones responsible would think its alright to do this.. Concentrate on consoles and let PC users take the fall ...If this becomes reality.. many if not most future release you see will have H scenes cut out from them,  Just coz the Developer had Console in mind when it decided for overseas localisation...

so will you be fine with VNs like Aokana, Nukitashi.. Senren Banka etc without H scenes.. well it could happen in the future.. if you let  devs think  its alright to do this...

 

 

[adamstan]

27 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

those have one purpose – fapping.

To be fair - sometimes h-scenes are less "porny", and more "lovely", (haven't you recently said that h-content in The Language of Love was decent?), but sadly it doesn't happen as often as I'd like But in general I agree with your posts in this thread.

2 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Sure, h-scenes are always inserted to VNs for "integrity" and "artistic expression" and not shuehorned in as fanservice. That's how things work in the skewed fantasy world of VNfanverse.

As for comparing all ages and adult versions - besides the obvious example of KEY, the writers of the first ToHeart also said that the h-scenes in first PC version were tacked-on ("we're making an eroge, so we need sex scenes" line of reasoning), and they consider later all-ages PSE edition to be definitive version of the game.

7 minutes ago, Wildbreed said:

Do you honestly think  Noratoto  would've sold well in Japan if they would've removed H Scenes from it.. i doubt it..

consoles are different.. tbh i dont like to compare PC to consoles..

Those two lines are somehow contradictive. Because if the JP console version sold well, then that means that it has its place, and you cannot say "Noratoto wouldn't sell without H-scenes". The platform doesn't matter.

Edited August 1, 2019 by adamstan

[Dergonu]

1 minute ago, adamstan said:

Those two lines are somehow contradictive. Because if the JP console version sold well, then that means that it has its place, and you cannot say "Noratoto wouldn't sell without H-scenes". The platform doesn't matter.

One thing to note about this is that in Japan, console versions are always made AFTER the PC release, and often serves as a secondary platform to play the games on, after people have already read the 18+ version on PC. With the all-ages version being the only version available in the west, western consumers don't have that choice. So, the "place" the console version has in Japan is somewhat different compared to the western one.

[adamstan]

Are there really many people that buy both versions? I find it a bit hard to believe

[Dergonu]

2 minutes ago, adamstan said:

Are there really many people that buy both versions? I find it a bit hard to believe

Yeah! It's fairly common. There are some who literally do not have PCs who settle for the console versions, though this is rare.
It's common for people in Japan to buy the console version as a second copy. This is also one of the reasons why these versions are usually sold quite some time after the initial 18+ release. If the market was screaming for all-ages versions only, these would probably be more common on day of release. But as far as I know, there are basically no console versions that came out close to the 18+ version on PC. It's just generally considered a secondary platform for many eroge fans in Japan. In fact, only the popular eroge that sells a lot of copies usually gets them. So, the 18+ version selling well is basically what determines if an all-ages version comes out or not.

Japan's market is pretty different from the western one.

[NowItsAngeTime]

3 hours ago, KingDragoYT said:

We don't want the r18 patches purely because we want to jerk ourselves off to the H-scenes.

Speak for yourself.

[Yuuko]

8 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

One thing to note about this is that in Japan, console versions are always made AFTER the PC release

Fuck off with the lies.

[Dergonu]

Just now, Kiriririri said:

Fuck off with the lies.

As far as I know, this is true. Among the console versions I know of, every single one has been released a long time after the original. Of course, I'm sure there are some that were released at the same time, or close to, the original. But, these are the expections that confirms the rule.
If you know something I don't, do share.

[Yuuko]

3 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

As far as I know, this is true. Among the console versions I know of, every single one has been released a long time after the original. Of course, I'm sure there are some that were released at the same time, or close to, the original. But, these are the expections that confirms the rule.
If you know something I don't, do share.

See anything by KID or Sci ADV games.

[Formlose Gestalt]

1 hour ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

The only thing missing is straight-up h-scenes and those have one purpose – fapping. I don't say there's anything wrong with that and I don't fault anyone for protecting their access to translated porn of their choice. It's the BS philosophy people add to hide what they're actually after that irritates me.

I personally want the h-scenes in because of sheer paranoia. I don't read eroge because of the ero part, I don't really enjoy them to be honest. Most of them feel shoe-horned in just like you said, but I would rather sit through them, then have the publisher cut them out because they deem them inappropriate. I lively through to bullshit already, in Germany for years every fucking movie and videogame had to be cut because of the violence. So I would rather have everything in even if I don't enjoy it. I can always skip if I feel like it. But having it cut out and not knowing what I miss, feels terrible at least for me.

But lately I have come around to accepting the Japanese All Age versions of eroge (made by the developers of the 18+ version), at least in that case I can expect that they put thought into replacing those scenes and making sure that everything makes sense afterward. But I will remain critical of All Age version that are produced by western publisher just because they don't want the h-scenes.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Formlose Gestalt

[Dergonu]

2 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:

See anything by KID or Sci ADV games.

But this is kind of my point, there are two examples that breaks the norm, not ones that sets it. Heck, KID has released mostly all-ages only games, with only some of them being 18+ to begin with. We're talking about console versions of eroge. On the other hand, here are some major examples of companies that DO it the way I said:

Inre, Saga Planets, Harukaze, Lose (seems to be changing this from now on, though previous games have done this), Frontwing, Pulltop, Skyfish. I could go on, but you get my point.

[NowItsAngeTime]

@Kiriririri :

[kokoro]

I don't really care about r18 stuff tbh. To me, sex detracts from the vn experience.

[yelsha57]

I just play the all ages version of vns, since 18+ stuff makes me uncomfortable. When there is no all ages availability, then I just press the control button. I do think that there should be more options for users who prefer the all ages version and for users who prefer the 18+ version of vns.

[Wildbreed]

36 minutes ago, kokoro said:

I don't really care about r18 stuff tbh. To me, sex detracts from the vn experience.

to each his own opinion.. but i think for most,  its about getting  a product with content being deliberately removed instead of letting the customer decide where they want to skip the H scenes or not.. the thing is tho

 

With H scenes being present  if some people dont like it one can just skip it.. and for those that enjoy it can just fap to it.. ..so everyone gets what they want..

however if they Remove them completely.. only one side of the crowd gets pleased while others not..and atleast i would like to think that the people who actually want the H scenes are in the Majority..

Edited August 1, 2019 by Wildbreed

[aliciarune]

So I dislike certain 18 content. I find it often bad in BxG games (never read an 18 otome game), and to my eyes never advances the story one bit, being only for being to jerk off to. For a while, I didn't care if the game was censored or not. But then with all that's been happening over the years with things like Tumblr and Deviantart, with artists being censored, I'm realizing how censorship can be a problem. But in terms with 18 visual novels, like I've said I've never really cared if they don't have hentai scenes. In fact, I come to think certain people who want them are annoying because they always complain instead of being happy to have a visual novel, and get upset. I always think they should just go to Manga or anime if they want sex. But but at the same time, I get the argument and understand why it can be bad of companies to get get rid of 18 content. I'm someone who likes boys love game and though I play it for story, I'd be upset to if it was censored. So yeah, I do agree if a game has 18 content, just leave it if they can. However, I don't agree with the steam argument. I don't get why, if the 18 version is on another site, why people always have to get upset that steam doesn't have the adult verson, when they can just go buy it somewhere else. Like honestly, this always annoys me. 

Also, I think some should realize this is why visual novels have a bad reputation for people and why others may be shy of letting others know they read visual novels. Some think vn's are just porn games and won't try them. I feel like more story centered or plot centered visual novels need to be made both from the Japanese and non Japanese. It's sad these don't sell well compared to straight up porn games though....I feel like if we had better story and character driven visual novels, people would give them more respect. 

Another thing that's always concerned me, is why people don't give some positives to English made made visual novels. I mean, I've played some real good ones. People here I get prefer JVN's, and it's sad seeing either negativity about OELVN or people never talking about them. Yeah, there are a good amount of bad ones, but there are also some good ones I think even JVN players should read. I feel like this site would've been perfect to creators looking for critics of their works, but no one really ever looks at those topics. It's sad honesty.