Ayakashibito: A thread

[Suzu Fanatic]

On 2/10/2016 at 8:23 AM, TexasDice said:

Touko spoilers, I guess.

  Hide contents

 

1, Oh, that's interesting. No, I got the babby ending (as you'd expect from me). Are the other endings long? 

2. Things got a little rapey, including an actual rape scene. On one hand, it reinforced the point that the setting and villains are pretty dark, but was it necessary to say the word rape every 17 seconds? For me, it's not big of an issue that it's there, but things could've been a little more subtle. (example: Why show the rape at all? The protagonist walking in on the thugs doing it would've been a shocker moment, if we hadn't seen it before.)

The entire possession stretch also felt a little... long? So many things happened that it actually became boring to me, up until the finale, where things aligned perfectly again. I have no idea how to fix this though, because all the stuff that happens during the possession stretch is actually important. But hey, that's where I am. 

3. I didn't understand much of what was going on Kuki and his thing, but that will probably be explained in Kaoru's route, I'd guess.

 

Spoiler

 

1. If she's not pregnant, it changes a large portion of the final encounter - it's about the same length, but with noticable differences - it's worth reading through, in any case. There's also a well-written "bad" end if you choose to attack Shu, when he asks you to (when he/she is 1st possessed by the tail.)

2. Agreed - not sure if that was how the TL was handled, or an active style of the original writer - I ended up CTRL'ing through most of the rape scene tbh, I had no interest in it and it didn't really have much significance beyond the dark act itself.

I have the feeling that was the intent - making the possession feel "dragged out" - both from the mc's perspective, and the others. An event everyone wishes would jsut end. It did feel a bit too long for me as well, but I was engrossed enough I was able to let it slide. (I was kinda in that "i dont want it it to end yet" mode, kinda like with a good book)

3. *Muffles himself before spoiling anything*

My thoughts on anything related to Kaoru, regardless of the writers attempt to humanize her:

 

 

Glad you are enjoying it for the most part. Some complain about the cliches and tropes etc - but I've never cared about that, as long as it's well-told. And considering this VN was released in '04, I can't help but be impressed with it compared to what else was available at the time.

 

That and Suzu is best girl ever - but that's stating the obvious.

[TexasDice]

I did, I finally did it. Texas Dice has once and for all proven that he is the master of being objective and leaving the comfort zone. 

Ayakashibito - A tale of Japanese folklore, character development and pointless rape.

This is a really good Visual Novel. I'm not in love with it, but I liked it a lot and enjoyed myself way more than I expected. In fact, I can summarize everything in a few sentences: (spoilers inbound)

Spoiler

 

1. The Story is good and a large amount of things just click, after you read all endings and paths

2. However, the story wasn't presented/told all that well. Anti-climatic conclusions, schizophrenic tone shifts and absurdly out of place H-scenes, which really serve no purpose at all, kicked me out of the immersion on more than one occassion. Which brings me to...

3. Now listen, I'm not here to advocate that rape is a bad thing (context!), but actually having it in the VN didn't contribute anything to the plot (save for Kaoru's case, I'll give it that) or characters at all. This might be one of the few cases in which I would've preferred not to have any h-scenes at all. The rape wasn't needed and the other H-scenes turned this VN into a nukige at the worst times.

4. It's time for a positive, huh? Okay fine: The characters are amazing. 

This is the selling point right there, The characters are what holds this Ayakashibito together. A lot of thought was put into all the important characters and hell, even the embarrassing, caricature hunting squad was given more depth than they had any right to possess.  

The weakest characters in this VN were the "big baddies", Chuu and Ten. They didn't do a whole lot and were taken care of pretty easily in every route.

After that, we have Kaoru whom I personally did not hate, but I thought she flip-flopped to easily between her two personas regardless.

The last one I want to mention was the teacher, Kotarou. While there weren't any glaring issues with his personality at all, he was a little too conveniently strong. In fact, the writers had to somehow write Kotarou out of 2 of the 4 main routes, because otherwise he would've broken every single fight sequence by just being around. Just a minor nitpick though.

I will now answer all and every question @Suzu Fanatic might have. 

[Nerathim]

1 hour ago, TexasDice said:

I did, I finally did it. Texas Dice has once and for all proven that he is the master of being objective and leaving the comfort zone. 

Ayakashibito - A tale of Japanese folklore, character development and pointless rape.

This is a really good Visual Novel. I'm not in love with it, but I liked it a lot and enjoyed myself way more than I expected. In fact, I can summarize everything in a few sentences: (spoilers inbound)

  Hide contents

 

1. The Story is good and a large amount of things just click, after you read all endings and paths

2. However, the story wasn't presented/told all that well. Anti-climatic conclusions, schizophrenic tone shifts and absurdly out of place H-scenes, which really serve no purpose at all, kicked me out of the immersion on more than one occassion. Which brings me to...

3. Now listen, I'm not here to advocate that rape is a bad thing (context!), but actually having it in the VN didn't contribute anything to the plot (save for Kaoru's case, I'll give it that) or characters at all. This might be one of the few cases in which I would've preferred not to have any h-scenes at all. The rape wasn't needed and the other H-scenes turned this VN into a nukige at the worst times.

4. It's time for a positive, huh? Okay fine: The characters are amazing. 

This is the selling point right there, The characters are what holds this Ayakashibito together. A lot of thought was put into all the important characters and hell, even the embarrassing, caricature hunting squad was given more depth than they had any right to possess.  

The weakest characters in this VN were the "big baddies", Chuu and Ten. They didn't do a whole lot and were taken care of pretty easily in every route.

After that, we have Kaoru whom I personally did not hate, but I thought she flip-flopped to easily between her two personas regardless.

The last one I want to mention was the teacher, Kotarou. While there weren't any glaring issues with his personality at all, he was a little too conveniently strong. In fact, the writers had to somehow write Kotarou out of 2 of the 4 main routes, because otherwise he would've broken every single fight sequence by just being around. Just a minor nitpick though.

I will now answer all and every question @Suzu Fanatic might have. 

 

You forgot to mention that it was one of the funniest VNs out there as well

[Darklord Rooke]

2 hours ago, TexasDice said:

This is a really good Visual Novel. I'm not in love with it, but I liked it a lot and enjoyed myself way more than I expected. In fact, I can summarize everything in a few sentences: (spoilers inbound)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1. The Story is good and a large amount of things just click, after you read all endings and paths

2. However, the story wasn't presented/told all that well. Anti-climatic conclusions, schizophrenic tone shifts and absurdly out of place H-scenes, which really serve no purpose at all, kicked me out of the immersion on more than one occassion. Which brings me to...

3. Now listen, I'm not here to advocate that rape is a bad thing (context!), but actually having it in the VN didn't contribute anything to the plot (save for Kaoru's case, I'll give it that) or characters at all. This might be one of the few cases in which I would've preferred not to have any h-scenes at all. The rape wasn't needed and the other H-scenes turned this VN into a nukige at the worst times.

4. It's time for a positive, huh? Okay fine: The characters are amazing. 

This is the selling point right there, The characters are what holds this Ayakashibito together. A lot of thought was put into all the important characters and hell, even the embarrassing, caricature hunting squad was given more depth than they had any right to possess.  

The weakest characters in this VN were the "big baddies", Chuu and Ten. They didn't do a whole lot and were taken care of pretty easily in every route.

After that, we have Kaoru whom I personally did not hate, but I thought she flip-flopped to easily between her two personas regardless.

The last one I want to mention was the teacher, Kotarou. While there weren't any glaring issues with his personality at all, he was a little too conveniently strong. In fact, the writers had to somehow write Kotarou out of 2 of the 4 main routes, because otherwise he would've broken every single fight sequence by just being around. Just a minor nitpick though.

 

Point #2, tone shifts - are you referring to the head-hopping or shifts in the tone of the actual story?

Yeah, point number 3 is one of the reasons I've yet to read it. Seems a bit dark for me. Point number 4 is the reason why I'll forever be tempted to read it.

[TexasDice]

1 hour ago, Nerathim said:

You forgot to mention that it was one of the funniest VNs out there as well

The comedy was indeed excellent and I can't remember a single joke falling flat, unless falling flat was the intention behind it (very meta, wow).

30 minutes ago, Rooke said:

Point #2, tone shifts - are you referring to the head-hopping or shifts in the tone of the actual story?

Yeah, point number 3 is one of the reasons I've yet to read it. Seems a bit dark for me. Point number 4 is the reason why I'll forever be tempted to read it.

I did mean in terms of tone. The extreme example are once again the H-scenes. I dunno, but it kind of irks me the wrong way, when our heroes are in the enemy base, close to the final confrontation and suddenly, the protagonist gets to have a long threesome scene in some room that happend to be free. 

The head hopping can also be confusing at times though. Sometimes, after a black screen, a dialogue box with an inner monologue starting a sentence with "I" appears and you need to read a few lines to understand whose view you're currently in.

On the other hand, these are rare and the protagonist is voiced. So outside of flashbacks without direct speech, it's easy to follow up on where you currently are.

 

The characters are really strong though. Especially our main heroine and protagonist lead is amazingly well developed throughout the entire VN.

[Suzu Fanatic]

Oh cool   I can't put my thoughts together right now, as I'm running on about 3 hours sleep - but gimme a day or so and I'll pick your brain abit.

 

I'm just content you enjoyed it. tfw someone else likes what you like. And I actually agree with all your points.

Though I do feel

 

Spoiler

 

one of the rapes (not including Kaoru), provided me with a huge amount of adreniline and rage - as the writer probably wanted. I remember saying out loud "you bntter leave her alone or I fucking swear to god I'll~ ", lol. Not many stories get me that involved.

 

That being said, I'd have to say Suzu's story is the weakest (at least the last half, it was barely about her, in a sense) - which is a god-awful shame considering how much I like her character, and how devel.... er, how well written she is. I also got abit sick of Kuki taking the spotlight every. single. time.

 

 

Good on you for finishing though, that makes my day. :  ) I'll put together abit more when my brain actually has some electritcy running through it~

 

 

[Suzu Fanatic]

@TexasDice *Bump*

Alright, with some sleep under my belt I can actually process thoughts like a normal person.

 

You already detailed a lot of my questions in your last few posts, so I soppose all I can really think of, is what route you enjoyed most, and why? And which was your least favorite?

Some random thoughts on my end:

(huge indepth spoilers, warning anyone besides Texasdice)

 

Spoiler

 

As I said in the above post, I was disappointed with Suzu's route, considering how strong her character was. I had HOPED and expected them to play the trope where she turns evil, after Ten and Chuu got their hands on her - basically something close to how it ended being with Kuki, but with Suzu instead (becuase lets face it, Kuki was getting tiresome, regardless of his awesomeness as a character). But, they kinda sailed that ship with Touko's route. =/

 

The last half ended up being a route about "everyone working together" instead of a route focusing on Suzu specifically. Though I soppose it could be argued she had already played such a pivitol role in the other routes/common route, that it was already good enough~ (Though I admit some scenes were just great, like Touko running up the steam stack to get over the city wall)

 

Did you read the two endings for her route? The one where the protag stayed human and jabbed Kuki with that serum, and the "true" ending (which was kinda meh, I thought the serum was far more clever, and had better resolution overall). Though, I can't help but wonder her fate - if the writers ever gave it any thought as to what would happen to her in her afterlife, having cut off her tail -  or if they just used it as a shock value for the moment. Because I don't see a happy future for her, on some very far off day. (Unless Soushichi can join her there, being a half-ayakashi himself?)

 

Putting Suzu aside for a moment (GASP), I just wanna say my favorite part is probably kinda wierd - I was really impressed/touched with Soushichi lending help to Karito, in Tonya's route. I know some people roll their eyes at the "good guy" shtick, but I thought the intention was a great sentiment. (though I could easily imagine some readers simply going "haahaa, gaaaaay" Thought it was a interesting touch of depth, to learn Karito was actively losing conciousness in his comedy routine (to save himself from the pain) but could actually endure and remain concious if he chose to. Was disappointed he couldn't play a bigger role in "the rescue".

 

And, am I a horrible person for cheering and supporting Suzu when she was torturing Kaoru (at LEAST for the first while, though it did go too far eventually)? lol... I "get" Kaoru had it tough, but I don't agree with him forgiving her. I could accept "letting the past be the past", But I personally would never trust that person ever again.

 

Was sad Sakura didn't get a route for herself - instead of trying to weasel in on Suzus . (I noped that chance, not even to unlock a CG or two - I would never betray Suzu )

 

All in all I guess that's all I can think of saying/asking, I thought the consensual Hscenes were great - but from a story perspective, mostly pointless. (esp. that stupid 3some in Koaru's route) I actually tried last year to cut out the H content, but with absolutely no skill or knowledge, it was a failed experiment~ (It's a story I wanted to share with people I know irl - but I wouldn't dare with the Hscenes left in).

 

 

 

Beyond that, good luck with your next attempt..it sure as hell isn't something I'm willing to ever try.

[TexasDice]

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

What route you enjoyed most, and why? And which was your least favorite?

The answer for me is Kaoru, because it's the only route which I actually read in one go without pause. There was barely any filler, since plot was really tight and just blasted through it. Excluding sexual filler, which indeed was really silly.

For worst route, I'm actually picking Touko, because her route had the most filler and none of it had anything to do with the real plot. Not saying the route is bad, it's just that I thought it was the weakest.

Spoiler

 

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

s I said in the above post, I was disappointed with Suzu's route, considering how strong her character was. I had HOPED and expected them to play the trope where she turns evil, after Ten and Chuu got their hands on her - basically something close to how it ended being with Kuki, but with Suzu instead (becuase lets face it, Kuki was getting tiresome, regardless of his awesomeness as a character). But, they kinda sailed that ship with Touko's route. =/

 

The last half ended up being a route about "everyone working together" instead of a route focusing on Suzu specifically. Though I soppose it could be argued she had already played such a pivitol role in the other routes/common route, that it was already good enough~ (Though I admit some scenes were just great, like Touko running up the steam stack to get over the city wall)

Suzu had a lot of screentime and I was okay with her romance being incorporated into the what should be called "True Route" instead. 

I like the fact that Kuki had a twist in this one tho. He killed Ichina in every route and the thought of it not happening and what the result of that would be didn't occur to me until it happened. 

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

Did you read the two endings for her route? The one where the protag stayed human and jabbed Kuki with that serum, and the "true" ending (which was kinda meh, I thought the serum was far more clever, and had better resolution overall). Though, I can't help but wonder her fate - if the writers ever gave it any thought as to what would happen to her in her afterlife, having cut off her tail -  or if they just used it as a shock value for the moment. Because I don't see a happy future for her, on some very far off day. (Unless Soushichi can join her there, being a half-ayakashi himself?)

Don't use Seraph is a clean, good ending, that gives you everything you need. Unfortunately it feels a little cheap and ruins the other two, because they feel like "Uh, buddy, you could've saved yourself a ton of work."

Use Seraph/Yes is more exiting than the one above, but requires suspension of disbelief, since another ending shows you how to avoid all of that mess in the first place.

Use Seraph/No is bittersweet and achives that goal, but ultimately makes Yatagarasu look like an asshole, because Use Seraph/Yes exists.

What I'm trying to say is: None of these endings feel right, since they destroy each other. To a new reader, I would recommend to pick one and never read the other two.

 

About heaven and hell: I'm sure Ryouichi would manage. We already know that he can be there, so they should durdle around together.

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

Putting Suzu aside for a moment (GASP), I just wanna say my favorite part is probably kinda wierd - I was really impressed/touched with Soushichi lending help to Karito, in Tonya's route. I know some people roll their eyes at the "good guy" shtick, but I thought the intention was a great sentiment. (though I could easily imagine some readers simply going "haahaa, gaaaaay" Thought it was a interesting touch of depth, to learn Karito was actively losing conciousness in his comedy routine (to save himself from the pain) but could actually endure and remain concious if he chose to. Was disappointed he couldn't play a bigger role in "the rescue".

Yes, I liked that and Karito turned out the be a fucking hero in the end. I did not see that coming and I was a little touched to learn that he would take that much pain upon himself to save his friends.

 

My favorite moment is a tie between saying goodbye to Shuugen and finding out about about Ryouichi's ancestor.

The former was really sad and I wanted to cry (I can't though, humanity hardened me). He is also my favorite character in the entire VN, sorry girls, but that's how it is.

The latter was essentially just a flashback connecting all the information that we already have, but actually showing us the whole story put a lot of parts and pieces that you encounter during the entirety of the VN into place and everything just clicks.

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

And, am I a horrible person for cheering and supporting Suzu when she was torturing Kaoru (at LEAST for the first while, though it did go too far eventually)? lol... I "get" Kaoru had it tough, but I don't agree with him forgiving her. I could accept "letting the past be the past", But I personally would never trust that person ever again.

Yes, you are. 

Suzu was a monster, horribly spiteful and bad - but she had a proper motive and it's how she always dealed with individuals who're hurting her loved ones. Really dark and mean, but totally in character.

Ryouichi, well, is a good guy. If anyone could forgive something like this, it would be him. That's just the type of guy that he his. 

The only one who weirded me out here, was Kaoru. I don't know if anyone agrees on this, but I wanted her to be more self depriving and isolating than mentioning it... "sometimes". She jumped ship a little bit too fast, if you know what I mean.

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

Was sad Sakura didn't get a route for herself - instead of trying to weasel in on Suzus . (I noped that chance, not even to unlock a CG or two - I would never betray Suzu )

Well, Sakura is neither attractive in terms of world destroying powers, nor does she have a tragic backstory (she does have a tragic backstory tho...  ). There's not a lot to do with her, despite how cute she is. Sakura is one of the cutest tall girls ever. 

(I did it and I regret nothing! )

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

All in all I guess that's all I can think of saying/asking, I thought the consensual Hscenes were great - but from a story perspective, mostly pointless. (esp. that stupid 3some in Koaru's route) I actually tried last year to cut out the H content, but with absolutely no skill or knowledge, it was a failed experiment~ (It's a story I wanted to share with people I know irl - but I wouldn't dare with the Hscenes left in)

To be fair, both that threesome and the one with Suzu and Tonya were amazing, in terms of H-scene quality.  The Kaoru threesome broke my self-inflicted fap-ban ;_;

 

 

9 hours ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

Beyond that, good luck with your next attempt..it sure as hell isn't something I'm willing to ever try.

I would rather you don't, because "Force me to Read something #2" is already confirmed for happening very soon.

 

Short notice: I had to write this post twice and effectively wasted over an hour of my life. Fuck you, Fuwa. 

[TexasDice]

I believe that I forgot to mention how great the soundtrack is.

The soundtrack is really great. Especially this track: 

 

[Kirashi]

I just saw that there is a route for Hounan in the ps2 vers. I am curious now, someone tried it?

[Suzu Fanatic]

6 hours ago, Kirashi said:

I just saw that there is a route for Hounan in the ps2 vers. I am curious now, someone tried it?

@Clephas You ever have the chance? Or just the PC version?

[Clephas]

9 minutes ago, Suzu Fanatic said:

@Clephas You ever have the chance? Or just the PC version?

I figure that they'll do a revival version eventually, with the whole thing on PC, if only to make back some of the money they lost on Hakugin and Jaeger.  But, no... I never got around to it, mostly because fiddling with my ps2 to let it play Japanese games is a pain in the rear. 

[Kirashi]

13 minutes ago, Clephas said:

I figure that they'll do a revival version eventually, with the whole thing on PC, if only to make back some of the money they lost on Hakugin and Jaeger.  But, no... I never got around to it, mostly because fiddling with my ps2 to let it play Japanese games is a pain in the rear. 

Can't you give a try with an emulator? It will be faster that way

[Clephas]

1 minute ago, Kirashi said:

Can't you give a try with an emulator? It will be faster that way

My PC doesn't have a disc drive... and I actually have the PS2 version (obtained from a second-hand shop by a friend in Japan for about twelve dollars).  I put it on my wish list, but I wasn't really that interested in it, lol. 

From what I've heard, it is a decent addition to the game, but I honestly can't muster up enough interest in replaying Ayakashibito again at this point (it would be my fourth playthrough.

[Kirashi]

Just now, Clephas said:

My PC doesn't have a disc drive... and I actually have the PS2 version (obtained from a second-hand shop by a friend in Japan for about twelve dollars).  I put it on my wish list, but I wasn't really that interested in it, lol. 

From what I've heard, it is a decent addition to the game, but I honestly can't muster up enough interest in replaying Ayakashibito again at this point (it would be my fourth playthrough.

Seems like you really had a great interest in Ayakashibito, but not enough to play the Hounan route? Or are you just not interested by the character itself?

[Clephas]

I'm interested... but it is going to be a while before I can go back to Ayakashibito and actually enjoy it.  VNs have a much larger 'down time' before I can replay them than normal video games, lol.

[Kirashi]

49 minutes ago, Clephas said:

I'm interested... but it is going to be a while before I can go back to Ayakashibito and actually enjoy it.  VNs have a much larger 'down time' before I can replay them than normal video games, lol.

I don't understand, why not just playing the common and Hounan route? It will be less boring that way.

[Clephas]

19 minutes ago, Kirashi said:

I don't understand, why not just playing the common and Hounan route? It will be less boring that way.

Hounan's route splits off from Touko's... also, I don't think I could bring myself to go through the common route either. 

[Kirashi]

On 31/07/2016 at 0:50 AM, Clephas said:

I figure that they'll do a revival version eventually, with the whole thing on PC, if only to make back some of the money they lost on Hakugin and Jaeger. 

I wonder about that. They released the whole thing on psp ps2 and pc. If they do a new release on pc, it would most likely be the psp port, so I wonder about that since it would not be interesting without more content (because people won't buy the game one more time just because of a new route they can already have on ps2 or psp)