That one question...

[Wintersami]

So i was going to make this long complicated poll, but i will save everyone's time with a question i'm sure it has been asked multiple times (I asume).

 

I haven't read that many VNs yet but i'm liking the genre, so now, in order to avoid many headaches, wich one should i pick...

 

Wait for english translations like a good boy?

Learn enough japanese to at least read/understand them? (If you did this, how long it took you and was it worth it)

Use 3rd party software like VN reader or any other? (If you did, point wich one and the amount of satisfaction it brought you)

 

I'd like to hear your experiences, i personally love learning languages but i would also like some directions and advice ^^

[crunchytaco]

Cross out the third option. Do one and two. Can't go wrong with knowing Japanese for the future. I guess if you're really pressed for time, just read all the VNs you can in english. When you've exhausted all the English translations, you can start your lessons at peace in Japanese. 

 

I'm currently doing both. Japanese is really easy to learn and fun! 

[Kimanor]

Cross out the third option. Do one and two. Can't go wrong with knowing Japanese for the future. I guess if you're really pressed for time, just read all the VNs you can in english. When you've exhausted all the English translations, you can start your lessons at peace in Japanese. 

 

I'm currently doing both. Japanese is really easy to learn and fun! 

 

I agree completely. Don't do the machine translation. It's bad, you won't enjoy the visual novel you use it on the same way you might if you could read it in english or japanese.

 

I personally am taking my time learning Japanese, as I have no particular rush at all, seeing as I have so many translated visual novels to go through.

 

It seems everyone who likes visual novels eventually asks your exact question, and most of us decide on learning Japanese, the language that we have come to enjoy through the medium of visual novels.

[GentleBlade]

Cross out the 2nd one, learning Japanese will take longer than you think and if you're a busy person, you're just adding on more work. Depending on what visual novel you are going to read, check if an english patch is gonna come out. If it doesn't than just use a visual novel reader, set it on Romanji and figure out the whole speech yourself. Shouldn't be too hard,

[castor212]

Use the 3rd option in order to do 2nd option while waiting for 1st option.

 

The translation WILL suck, but it does speed up the 2nd option progress.

[Nerathim]

Learning japanese takes a lot of times, instead of learning it I think you should, at least, do all the animes/books/vn/movies you've already planned to do in your original language or english, it might be a lot but it's worthwhile since we cannot (generally) do all the best things from many medias during our life. Based on the fact you will try to learn japanese on your own of course, it's more worth it if you do it in school or with a japanese friend eventually.

[Wintersami]

Cross out the third option. Do one and two. Can't go wrong with knowing Japanese for the future. I guess if you're really pressed for time, just read all the VNs you can in english. When you've exhausted all the English translations, you can start your lessons at peace in Japanese. 

 

I'm currently doing both. Japanese is really easy to learn and fun! 

 

Thankfully, i think i have the time for now. I'm a sucker for languages and i allways been a fan of knowing them all, though at the moment i only know/properly talk two (English and Spanish)

 

But i don't know if it's just me but the VNs i'm ALLWAYS interested in are either currently being translated or haven't even been picked up by a translation group. If you guys had to give an average of how long does a VN takes to be translated, what would it be? 

[Kimanor]

Thankfully, i think i have the time for now. I'm a sucker for languages and i allways been a fan of knowing them all, though at the moment i only know/properly talk two (English and Spanish)

 

But i don't know if it's just me but the VNs i'm ALLWAYS interested in are either currently being translated or haven't even been picked up by a translation group. If you guys had to give an average of how long does a VN takes to be translated, what would it be? 

It very much depends on the team and the length/type of visual novel.

 

Something 60 hours+ would take at least a year (such as rewrite), whilst something only ten hours long could take a month.

 

As well, a particular translation team might fall apart due to various reasons, such as time or leadership issues.

 

Honestly, it's a volunteer thing so there is no pressure.

[Wintersami]

It very much depends on the team and the length/type of visual novel.

 

Something 60 hours+ would take at least a year (such as rewrite), whilst something only ten hours long could take a month.

 

As well, a particular translation team might fall apart due to various reasons, such as time or leadership issues.

 

Honestly, it's a volunteer thing so there is no pressure.

 Oh yes i'm aware, but i'm asking to get it out of the way instead of just going to the TL group's website and write comments like ''3 days and no update?!?!'' or ''Is this dead?'', i can't stand that attitude

[Mr. Meogii]

Focusing on one and two is your best option right now.

Learning japanese does take time for some and for others it doesn't so don't be discouraged.

[Life]

Go for option one unless there is a Japanese VN you really want to try or just to get the original feel of the VN. In that case try option two but I would say don't go for option three.

[Bolverk]

So i was going to make this long complicated poll, but i will save everyone's time with a question i'm sure it has been asked multiple times (I asume).

 

I haven't read that many VNs yet but i'm liking the genre, so now, in order to avoid many headaches, wich one should i pick...

 

Wait for english translations like a good boy?

Learn enough japanese to at least read/understand them? (If you did this, how long it took you and was it worth it)

Use 3rd party software like VN reader or any other? (If you did, point wich one and the amount of satisfaction it brought you)

 

I'd like to hear your experiences, i personally love learning languages but i would also like some directions and advice ^^

I wondered about this as well almost a year ago. I chose to learn japanese, as I wanted to read more vn's I liked. The ones translated weren't the ones I liked the most.

If you mean by VNR Machine translators I'd pass on that. If you start using them and enjoy it, I won't hush hush you though.

First I studied basic jp grammar. Then I hooked up my vn's with ITH+TA (text extracter and a Dic). I learnt japanese by reading vn's, took me around 2 months to get to read at average speaking speed. I found it fun from day 1. But it was frustrating as hell up to around 1 month later.

Nowdays I can read major parts of easy-average vn's without Dic's. Watch anime without subs, I don't understand 100% everything though.

 

Basically if someone who half assedly reads vn's like me can learn jp. I'd say anyone can.. Ganbatte lol.

 

 Oh yes i'm aware, but i'm asking to get it out of the way instead of just going to the TL group's website and write comments like ''3 days and no update?!?!'' or ''Is this dead?'', i can't stand that attitude

A active team uses around 1-2 years. Some use less. Most teams end up using 2-3 years or more..

[Cythnar]

I'd say go for both option 1 and 2.

Read what you can now, learn while you're at it. No point waiting for all the translations you want. You're going to be waiting far longer for them to be translated than for you learn Japanese and read WHATEVER you want to read. Not pick and choose what's translated and what isn't. But that's my opinion, anyways. Learning Japanese isn't for everyone, it can be quite time-consuming and difficult. But that's per learner experience.

[Pabloc]

A common misconception is that in order to read untranslated VNs you have to be perfectly fluent in Japanese and know 2847 kanji. But that's simply not true.

Learning enough Japanese to read VNs (with MeCab/JParser) will take less time than a translation of a medium length VN (unless you are very very busy or you generally have huge problems with learning new languages). Japanese grammar is very easy (compared to Polish, English, German, and Latin at least, I'm not familiar with any other languages). It's the writing that is a pain to learn, but MeCab/JParser can deal with kanji just fine, so you can skip that part for now.

Your reading pace will be slow at first, but after finishing a few short titles it will quickly improve (as long as you have good foundations, that is - decent grammar knowledge).

 

Of course, you can read translated VNs in the meantime (and even after you learn basic Japanese - reading in English still will be faster for a long while).

 

Contrary to what Castor said, using any kind of machine translators will actually hinder your progress with learning Japanese (because you will have to waste your efforts on learning how to decipher MT's gibberish). If you ever think of using one of those, ATLAS with a crapton of tweaks is arguably the least horrible. It's still horrible though, so don't waste your time on it.

[seventhfonist425]

But i don't know if it's just me but the VNs i'm ALLWAYS interested in are either currently being translated or haven't even been picked up by a translation group. If you guys had to give an average of how long does a VN takes to be translated, what would it be? 

Ah, yeah. About that... like some people have already said, if they're slow, chances are, you can teach yourself and learn enough to get to reading (preferably with a text hooker and dictionary) faster than they can get done. I started a good, maybe almost a year after I'd finished reading Little Busters in English... only to end up reading the extra routes in Japanese later. Don't even ask me about the translation team's progress on that. I have no idea. Course, it all depends on your own speed. If you have the time and find a way that works for you (That part MIGHT take a while. Certainly took me a few months of trial and error for me.)

[Sxsxarael]

Why cross out the 3rd option when you can use that as one of the ways to learn Japanese?

Personally, I already read all translated VNs so I have no choice but to learn Japanese while waiting.

I always use VN readers and anime as learning tools.

[Fiddle]

If you like learning languages, it seems like this would be an excellent opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Immersion is a vital aspect of learning any language, but it especially applies to Japanese from an English-speaker's perspective since most of the foreign languages we learn have similar roots. Japanese, having an unfamiliar writing system and style of grammar, requires the closest you can get to first-hand experience. Visual novels are an especially practical medium through which to hone your skills, since you can both hear and read what's being said.

 

So, for your circumstances, I recommend option 2. I'm sure you already know this, but bear in mind that it will take time before you can read at a reasonable pace.

[DimDito]

^ Everything's pretty much told but I'll try to advise you something else;

 

I'm not familiar with VN Reader, but unless it displays Japanese vocabulary I suggest you stick with ITH and Translation Aggregator instead, along with the MeCab and JParser plugins. If you don't know what those are, be sure to look them up. They're very helpful in getting accustomed to the Japanese language, however, it will require you to have basic understanding of Japanese grammar beforehand. You can quickly learn the basics in this site, I'm sure it won't take long. This is because, and I can't stress it out enough, that-

 

You don't use machine translators to read the English.

[Wintersami]

^ Everything's pretty much told but I'll try to advise you something else;

 

I'm not familiar with VN Reader, but unless it displays Japanese vocabulary I suggest you stick with ITH and Translation Aggregator instead, along with the MeCab and JParser plugins. If you don't know what those are, be sure to look them up. They're very helpful in getting accustomed to the Japanese language, however, it will require you to have basic understanding of Japanese grammar beforehand. You can quickly learn the basics in this site, I'm sure it won't take long. This is because, and I can't stress it out enough, that-

 

You don't use machine translators to read the English.

 

Thank you based user!

 

Also thanks to everyone who minded to post here and help, i hate coming out as the noob cause i usually get ignored/flamed at. ^^

[Clephas]

A few things...

 

First, learn Japanese if you have the persistence to do so.

 

Second, as long as you don't actually use a translation function (using a furigana function is perfectly legitimate) there is no reason not to utilize a text hooker and jparser or VNR's furigana function.  It's important to make this distinction, because with knowledge of spoken Japanese, it is quite possible to interpret or fix what comes out of a furigana converter in your head while reading.  For me, this is just fine (since I don't even have to do it consciously anymore), but I know a lot of people have trouble with this aspect.   Learning Kanji is the most time-consuming aspect of learning Japanese and the one issue that is easiest to get around.  Using an actual translation application, unfortunately, really doesn't work.  You just get gobbledygook and a smattering of sentences that might or might not be correct (rolling dice with word meanings on them would be more accurate in some cases). 

 

Third, if you do choose to use a furigana-conversion application, you need to be at a point where you can automatically interpret grammar, even if you trip over some words.  If you can't do that much, you shouldn't even try to use that.

[Wintersami]

So, first of all, i want to thank everyone for their opinions, i'm currently learning Japanese and i just got introduced to Kanji and i'm enjoying every second of it. As any other language, your best friends are experience and good hearing so it will take a while. I hope newcomers can find this thread useful and i also hope it encourages everybody to give it a try

[Okami]

Cross out the third option. Do one and two. Can't go wrong with knowing Japanese for the future. I guess if you're really pressed for time, just read all the VNs you can in english. When you've exhausted all the English translations, you can start your lessons at peace in Japanese. 

 

I'm currently doing both. Japanese is really easy to learn and fun! 

 

Agree, forget about #3 one you want enjoy it, and you want really understand anything.

 

Go for 1 & 2, wait for English patches and read them while learning Japanese in mean time, If you love VNs and you plan to read them for a long time you will have to learn it sooner or latter and it is worth it as less than 5% of VNs out there are translated to English.

 

Sure it takes time but so does learning any other language, imagine how limited your VN/Anime enjoyment would be if the fact that it takes a lot time stopped you from learning English (Guessing that Spanish is your native one), well once you learn Japanese you possibilities will expend that much more.

 

I myself am doing the same, reading translated ones while learning Japanese, sure you could like some suggest first read/watch everything you can now and only once your out of stuff to read/watch start learning but then you would be out of things to read/watch until you learn it, while if you start learning right now by the time you run out of translated VNs you want to read you will already be able to read untranslated ones.

 

Also I suggest you lean Kana first, once you know Kana learning Kanji is alot easier, and that's the order that Japanese kids learn to read/write too.

[Zalor]

Where did you guys learn the grammar? I heard about both Tae Kim and the Genki text books. I don't really have much spare money right now so I'm thinking about using Tae Kim (as his guide is free), however if their are other alternatives for learning the grammar I am interested in hearing them.

[HMN]

Where did you guys learn the grammar? I heard about both Tae Kim and the Genki text books. I don't really have much spare money right now so I'm thinking about using Tae Kim (as his guide is free), however if their are other alternatives for learning the grammar I am interested in hearing them.

here is a torrent http://kickass.to/genki-i-ii-integrated-elementary-japanese-course-pdf-mp3-t1420010.html 

it contains genki level 1 and level 2

 

EDIT:oh i forgot to mention this http://depositfiles.com/files/7jtd6nh8w

amazing grammar book it'll take you from beginner to intermediate level 

[seventhfonist425]

Where did you guys learn the grammar? I heard about both Tae Kim and the Genki text books. I don't really have much spare money right now so I'm thinking about using Tae Kim (as his guide is free), however if their are other alternatives for learning the grammar I am interested in hearing them.

What I used was Tae Kim, because it really is pretty good (I used it.)

 

http://www.imabi.net/

http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/j-comi.php

http://www.nihongoresources.com/language/grammar.html

Unfortunately, I've ONLY used Tae Kim, so I don't exactly know how great these are, but I've skimmed some, and they seem pretty useful. There are plenty of other sites, which I can't really vouch the credit for, but assume are just as good.

 

here is a torrent http://kickass.to/genki-i-ii-integrated-elementary-japanese-course-pdf-mp3-t1420010.html 

it contains genki level 1 and level 2

Oh yeah, I've forgotten to use them to be honest, but I'm sure they'd be helpful too.