Visual Novel Writers You Hate?

[fun2novel]

Why so much hate for Ryukishi? I mean you guys can have your own opinions I don't mind that. I have a limited experience with his style but I'm really enjoying Higurashi. It's the only vn by him I read so far and I'm not even halfway through but he is better than most writers I know.

 

I also agree that each work needs to be judged on it's own without thinking about who worked on it but really, let's be honest here, who here does not give some vn a chance just because it was produced by Akatsuki Works, Propeller or Light? Or was written by Tanaka Romeo? So let's not fool ourselves, we tend to give more attention to things, people and companies we know have a certain quality we like. I'm all for trying new things, we all have to if we want to discover great new things but there will always be a bias towards something that made us feel good before. So we'll seek the next thing from the same author or company.

[InvertMouse]

I know a lot of folks crowd to wherever the hype is so it is interesting to see the opposite perspective through a thread like this. To be truthful, I thought most people go "It is from Key and has pretty drawings so it must be a great game :O" so I am surprised by some of the comments being made here.

 

As mentioned in this thread, I am sure many things are lost in translation, so it is tough for me to say I dislike anyone ~

[DoodlyNyan]

Writers that I hate? No one. 'Cause I don't actually pay attention to that kind of stuff. Same thing with Anime, I don't care about the voice actor, director, etc etc.

[Clephas]

Two things... I played Higu before I played Devils Devel Concept or Ruitomo.  My love for Akatsuki Works and Propeller came post-Higu.

 

Second, I adored the Higu anime.  I just disliked Ryukishi's writing style.  I also ran into the same problem when reading Rewrite, incidentally.  The parts Ryukishi had a hand in were the ones that screwed the pacing the most.  Higurashi's anime was a nice mindfuck, and I'm still an enthusiastic fan.  However, I'm far less enthusiastic for the VN, which disappointed me somewhat. 

[InvertMouse]

I wouldn't dare badmouthing writers whose original work I can't understand due to language barriers. I'm not a huge fan of Key's style, alright, but I have no idea of how the folks actually write.

 

I guess we could say that by the time Rewrite has been translated, it may as well have been rewritten?................................................................................... Okay (;w;).

[Zalor]

 

Authored some of the most adored visual novels by western fans in history. You'll probably die before you finish counting on how many top 10 lists G-Senojou climbs to No.1. Both SnK and G-Senjou quickly became the must visual novels to read for any vn fan. There is no counting how much these two are praised.

 

But this is where my problem with Looseboy comes into surface. It's kind of hard to explain but basically I can't stand his style. Every scene overstays its welcome, every dialogue feels like he's trying to buy time to make the story longer. It takes too long to get to the point.

 

Finally, someone who says exactly what I've been saying and thinking about G-Senjou for a while. Whats more you articulated it in the perfect way, "Every scene overstays its welcome" that's exactly why I had a hard time enjoying G-Senjou. You Sir get a like.

 

Also about KEY, they established themselves through ONE~ and Kanon with the formulaic style of: 1) happy, funny beginning 2) romance in the middle 3) separation 4) get together and happy conclusion. This style made them so much money and continues to do so. However Kanon in my opinion mastered this style and it has all been down hill from there. I thought Clannad was good but not as good as Kanon. You can only tell so many good stories with one formula before it gets boring. Everything produced by KEY passed Clannad felt mediocre to me. (Sorry Little Busters and Rewrite fans).

[Zalor]

Wouldn't this be the formula for each and every romantic comedy story ever? Since Shakespeare's Much Ado About Nothing, perhaps?

 

Yeah but KEY popularized its usage in VNs. Before KEY hit major success with this formula VNs were generally just dating sims. Read this article if you haven't already it pretty much explains everything: http://vnchan.com/thread-74.html

But you're right the formula itself is nothing new, it was just smart on KEY's part to implement it after they saw To Heart (an older VN) hit success through using the formula.

[InvertMouse]

Great article Zalor! I will read that in detail when I have time for sure .

 

It saddens me a bit to see ONE being categorized as a crying game. I feel that nakige use rather forceful techniques to stir someone's emotions. Techniques that work especially well on teenagers. That is not meant to be offensive. I was right there in the Air and Clannad days. As I aged, however, I find this genre no longer do much for me. The characterizations and scenes are often blatantly put together to force us to feel something.

 

I have read that Kanon's success was one of the driving forces behind this nakige trend. As mentioned in this thread, during the 90s, we had more general dating sims such as Tokimeki Memorial, which was massively popular when I was growing up. ONE was released in the late 90s. Perhaps the industry was still trying to figure out the formula. That is precisely why I found the game so endearing. Most routes were heartfelt rather than having emotions force fed to the reader. I never felt like crying while reading ONE. All I felt was a genuine connection to the cast, and possibly the author as well.

 

Thank you .

[Clephas]

I prefer utsuge... give me Konakana over Kanon anyday.

[Zalor]

I prefer utsuge... give me Konakana over Kanon anyday.

 

VNDB's definition of utsuge:

 

Utsuge stands for utsu game, and it means "depressing game". It is said that the purpose of these types of games is to depress the player.

Most of the time these games have no happy end, no help, no hope..

 

Artistically I can see why these VNs would offer more. That said I hate feeling depressed with no sense of hope.

[Clephas]

lol, Konakana manages to be an utsuge that doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth, though the endings are mostly deeply sorrowful.

[fun2novel]

I want to remind that although the name of the thread is 'Writers you hate' it doesn't have to be about that, any kind of pet peeve that irks you the wrong way can be discussed here.

 

It is also important to understand that these are of course just opinions and some companies such as Key found their audience and make their visual novels specifically for that audience. If you don't like Key games then you're probably not someone to whom they make their games for. It's the same thing with specific writers, like I said before I just can't enjoy anything by Looseboy but obviously there are a lot of people who love his writing, personally I'm not going to read anything by him anymore, his style is not for me.

[Clephas]

I dislike writers that overuse tsundere patterns... give me a nice yandere or evil heroine any day.  The tsundere (when it is used in the archetypical form) is easily the most boring archetype in existence, save possibly the iyashikei or bakakko (also known as the genkikko).

[fun2novel]

Oh Clephas, you're so hardcore extreme to the max, lol.

[hussien-11]

Did you try Umineko ? Ryukishi has gained experience and it shows, except some pacing problems everything is better and the VN itself is really original (adult cast, a bunch of messages about the notion of reality, family relationships, the truth in all its forms, differents forms of love, the work of fiction...). The risk taking is admirable imo, being a bookworm myself it's the only VN who made me remember some products from this media, and even if you don't like Umineko, you will love the soundtrack, it's worth it in any case.

 

I agree with you. I didn't read too many visual novels compared to other people, but Umineko maybe the most well written of them all. it feels much more like a novel to me than any other game.

[Pabloc]

When it comes to Ryukishi's writing, I'm kinda neutral. I like what he writes, but not necessarily how he writes it. I didn't read enough of his original writing to judge it though (only a bit in Rewrite).

As for Key's nakige formula, I kinda like it, but I think ONE and Kanon are enough for me. And Rewrite and Planetarian are my favorite Key's VNs in the end (despite Rewrite's translation, which I didn't like at all...).

 

Utsuges are definitely more to my liking though. When I feel like reading something emotional, I prefer heavy artillery, not those happy-ending nakiges.

I also like grimdark stories, evil, wicked characters and such, and utsuges are generally more likely to feature those.

 

As for the things I dislike, it's definitely the very common Mr. Average protagonist. They are so boooooring. And I can't put myself into the shoes of such characters anyway.

[fun2novel]

Pabloc, then I'd recommend you read Urobushi's VNs.

[fun2novel]

I prefer not to judge someone by their avatar, lol.

[fun2novel]

Hehehe, I'd say judging my avatar I'm too lazy to make one, lol.

[douggle]

If I had to pick one, it would be the writer of School Days. other than that I've enjoyed most of the VN's I have read.

[Pabloc]

Pabloc, then I'd recommend you read Urobushi's VNs.

Well, avatar aside, I already mentioned 3 VNs written by Urobuchi that I liked in this very thread...

 

He is easily my favorite writer so far (though I have read all of his works in English, so I can't really say much about his actual writing style). But yeah, I still didn't read his untranslated stuff and Phantom (there's no way I will touch Hirameki's retarded DVD-thingy, I'll read it in JP).

[sanahtlig]

 Also... I don't think those playing only translated VNs have a case for evaluating the writers in the first place, lol.  

I see this statement a lot, and I disagree.  I've played innumerable games via machine translation (the worst possible corruption of the original) and I can easily distinguish generic fluff and uninspired filler from tightly written information-filled communication.  Good VN story primarily comes from good scenario design, interesting characters and setting, and the ability to communicate situations and ideas clearly and succinctly.  These elements come across even with machine translation.  Comedy does require a developed writing style (and coincidentally doesn't machine translate worth a damn), but I'm not typically a fan of games in the comedy genre anyway.

 

Style is really the only element that gets lost in translation.  But writing style is actually only one of several elements that make a story enjoyable--and it's not even necessarily the most important one.

[fun2novel]

Well, avatar aside, I already mentioned 3 VNs written by Urobuchi that I liked in this very thread...

 

He is easily my favorite writer so far (though I have read all of his works in English, so I can't really say much about his actual writing style). But yeah, I still didn't read his untranslated stuff and Phantom (there's no way I will touch Hirameki's retarded DVD-thingy, I'll read it in JP).

 

The X360 remake (which is also available for pc) looks pretty good. The PS2 version is very good too, it's basically the exact same version that was released in English but since it's on the console it doesn't have all these technical problems.

 

Also, if you don't mind yaoi read Togainu no Chi, it's by Urobuchi too.

[fun2novel]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to debunk your petty elitism.

 

If your point is based on the fact that we don't get to see the original work's literary style, remember writers don't live off their flourishings and wordplays. There's the actual storytelling part. How Nasu's inexcusable metaphors for sexual organs might sound nice in Japanese doesn't matter - there's still the fact that more than half of the H-scenes he writes are completely out of place. A writer must know when to write something, as much as how to write something.

 

 

Additionally, one can dislike Jun Maeda for repeating himself. Translated or untranslated, if the works feel all samey, that's a very fine reason not to like an author. Except, of course, in the case there are untranslated works that differ from what we usually get. And third, it's very much possible to dislike a writer for what he or she writes. Themes, conventions, tropes. I don't see how translation gets in the way. You should really, really drop your elitism. It doesn't help your judgement.

 

I kind of agree with you here. While certain things are always lost in translation, things like storytelling style, plotting, character development, world building are still there even if it's not in the original language.

[Funyarinpa]

I do not have a writer I hate, probably due to me having read less than 20 (maybe 10) VN's so far.  However, as pointed out by someone on the vast realm of the internet(I think it was VLR or Ever17 board on GameFAQs), Kotaro Uchikoshi reuses his twists in his VN's. Anyone who has read both 

VN No. 1) Ever17

VN No. 2) Virtue's Last Reward

is probably having an "Eureka!" moment right now. Actually, it is to a degree that reading #2 of the VN's tagged above made me borderline unable to enjoy the #1. Hint: The #1 VN was also known and praised mostly for its true route and its twists.  (As a side note, if you have not read these VN's, I'd suggest you read #2 first, the twist is far more effective in that one.)

 

Do not get me wrong, I LOVE Uchikoshi (he opened an English Twitter account just for his Western fans, follows fan projects closely and is an overall great guy) but even he himself admits to this: He says that he did that because too small of his fan base would have read the #1 VN before reading #2. I hope that if ZE3 happens it does not include twists from his other games. Reusing twists is lazy, anticlimactic and annoying, even if it will come embedded with a bazillion new mindfucking turns.