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[BookwormOtaku]

 

Still looking forward to assault-free (verbal, physical) responses. Interested to hear your takes on the question : P

[Shikomizue]

First, I would explain to him the differences between books and VNs. In VNs, you can actually see and hear the scene that you're reading being played out (to an extent), plus, depending on the novel, you can make choices that will have an impact on the story. Then, I would explain to him my feelings about visual novels, and how other people feel about them. They're not just porn, they're stories that the creators have put their heart and soul into making, just like any other book or comic.

 

And if that dosen't work I could always just use my mind control device.

[Zalor]

Around 30 years ago anime was extremely niche, and hardly know about in the western world. Few had fan subs, and most anime was virtually Japanese exclusive (this was Ryoji's day). Now you look at anime and virtually anybody age 20 or younger has at least watched an anime (even if it's just DBZ, Pokemon or Naruto). VN's have a huge potential as an art form, and will eventually become popular. And believe me, when they do become popular (may not happen for another 20-40 years btw) it will suck for people like us who have been around when they were obscure. So my advice, enjoy the obscurity while it lasts. ;D I prefer a niche community filled with people who are deeply passionate about their hobby (fuwanovel), then a huge community with a bunch of casuals (the contemporary anime community).

 

If I had to respond to that person though (and I've been in that situation before), I would emphasize how VNs are a new and in some ways an "experimental" art form. Honestly, when dealing with these people the more pretentious you sound the better. In these conversations I always either bring up Narcissu, because 1) it is sort of avant garde, and 2) it has no sex scenes which invalidates their accusations. Or I bring up Swan Song or Saya no Uta (two VNs where the sex/rape scenes actually serve to develop characters) and compare it to popular contemporary fiction like Game of Thrones or something. Because honestly, it's not that different. People have no problem with sex and rape in Game of Thrones (neither in the books or the TV series) but for some inexplicable reason they can't stand 2d sex scenes? Also emphasize how if somebody were looking for porn, no sane person would read through a 30+ hour story just for a handful of sex scenes. 

[Decay]

If someone is already objecting to porniness just by looking at a picture of a fully clothed anime woman, bringing up Saya no Uta is not going to go well. Even if you manage to somewhat justify it by saying "it's like Game of Thrones" and they seemingly accept that, they'll still be skeptical and think you're weird.

 

And it's not like game of thrones, because game of thrones isn't explicit and pornographic. you don't have closeups of penetration and 10-minute-long scenes full of every last detail. But I guess if you lie to them and tell them it's like game of thrones, it's more palatable. Just hope they never investigate further and find out it's actual literal pornography.

 

If you want to convince someone who is down on the concept of visual novels, don't even bring up the porn. Don't even mention games with it. Talk about Little Busters as a rousing tale of youth and friendship, or Steins;Gate as a compelling sci-fi thriller.

[solidbatman]

I'd just introduce the guy to Steve and never have to deal with him again. 

[Rose]

Pretty much what Rooke said. Highlight only the few most obvious reasons and that's it. 

 

The visual novel she comes from is actually longer than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, believe it or not

 

It is?

[Decay]

I believe it, F/SN is really long. Most 50+ hour VNs are longer than the LOTR trilogy. I believe the last GRRM novel was longer than the entire trilogy, too, each book was only a few hundred pages.

[astro]

Paste Kim Kardashian's face onto Saber's body and ask him if he thinks it looks porny

[Zalor]

If someone is already objecting to porniness just by looking at a picture of a fully clothed anime woman, bringing up Saya no Uta is not going to go well. Even if you manage to somewhat justify it by saying "it's like Game of Thrones" and they seemingly accept that, they'll still be skeptical and think you're weird.

 

And it's not like game of thrones, because game of thrones isn't explicit and pornographic. you don't have closeups of penetration and 10-minute-long scenes full of every last detail. But I guess if you lie to them and tell them it's like game of thrones, it's more palatable. Just hope they never investigate further and find out it's actual literal pornography.

 

If you want to convince someone who is down on the concept of visual novels, don't even bring up the porn. Don't even mention games with it. Talk about Little Busters as a rousing tale of youth and friendship, or Steins;Gate as a compelling sci-fi thriller.

 

That's why I said I would discuss either Narcissu or Swan Song/Saya. The way I choose the direction of the conversation to go all depends on the vibe I get from the person. If they are slightly (and seemingly genuinely) open minded you could bring up Swan Song. If not, then stick with Narcissu. I wouldn't go with something like Little Busters (or anything KEY) because that represents the standard of the VN industry. You need something that back ups your argument that this is a new "art form". I wasn't kidding about the more pretentious you sound the better. If you present your interest in VNs as an intellectual one, they are more likely to become genuinely interested in them. If you leave your argument as "They're cool and I like them", they won't care. At least that's my experience when dealing with these situations...   

[Darklord Rooke]

I believe it, F/SN is really long. Most 50+ hour VNs are longer than the LOTR trilogy. I believe the last GRRM novel was longer than the entire trilogy, too, each book was only a few hundred pages.

 

Yeah, LOTR isn't that long - 

 

Lord of the Rings - J. R. R. Tolkien

The Fellowship of the Ring: 187k

The Two Towers: 155k

The Return of the King: 131k

Total: 473k

Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan

The Eye of the World: 305k

The Great Hunt: 267k

The Dragon Reborn: 251k

The Shadow Rising: 393k

The Fires of Heaven: 354k

Lord of Chaos: 389k

A Crown of Swords: 295k

The Path of Daggers: 226k

Winter's Heart: 238k

Crossroads of Twilight: 271k

Knife of Dreams: 315k

Total: 3M 304k (official count)

Stormlight Archives - Brandon Sanderson

The Way of Kings: 387k (official count)

A Song of Ice And Fire - George R. R. Martin

A Game of Thrones: 284k

A Clash of kings: 326k

A Storm of Swords: 404k

A Feast for Crows: 300k

Total: 1M 314k

Malazan Book of the Fallen - Steven Erikson

Gardens of the Moon: 209k

Deadhouse Gates: 272k

Memories of Ice: 358k

House of Chains: 306k

Midnight Tides: 270k

The Bonehunters: 365k

Reaper's Gale: 386k

Toll the Hounds: 392k

Dust of Dreams: 382k

The Crippled God: 385k

Total: 3M 325k

The Dark Tower - Stephen King

The Gunslinger: 55k

The Drawing of the Three: 128k

The Waste Lands: 178k

Wizard and Glass: 264k

Wolves of the Calla: 251k

Song of Susannah: 131k

The Dark Tower: 288k

Total: 1M 295k

 

http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/fantasy-book-discussion/word-counts-of-epic-fantasy-novels/

 

In comparison, Clannad has... what, a million english words?

[Decay]

Because turning pages requires two hands

 

◔‿◔

Said like a true millennial. "What's a porn mag? Can you torrent it?" 

[Clephas]

I would have cut off the conversation the moment he said 'porny'. 

[Heizei_koukousei]

"My good sir, how dare you insinuate such things."

"I shall abstain from fisticuffs... This time."

 

Or something like that

[sanahtlig]

Excuse you, there are a total of 328 pages of VNs on VNDB, and 54 pages if you filter by "No sexual content". Thus, only 83.5% of VNs are pornographic.

For fun, I did a little experiment.  I created a list of all VN releases on VNDB with the following filters: Japanese language, originally Japanese language, Windows platform

https://vndb.org/r?q=;fil=lang-ja.olang-ja.plat-win;o=d;s=released

 

Then I counted all VNs released 2/15/15-3/19/15 (I intended to count 1 month but accidentally counted 1 month + 4 days instead).  I repeated for the subset of those VNs that weren't 18+.

 

My results:

All VN releases: 150

Non 18+ releases: 11 (7.3%)

 

I'll therefore continue to use my 90% number as a good ballpark estimate of Japanese excellence in perverted entertainment.

[Nerathim]

"Well I don't know, I may be a lost cause to like porny cartoons. Fortunately you're here for me, wanna lend me your fifty shades of grey ?"

Then I would have probably become an intellectual. Instead of spending my nights searching for CG set on hentai sites I'd be in a glorious lounge, wearing a bathrob in a rocking chair, smoking my pipe (with jazz coming out of a jukebox of course). Current subject : How transformers relates to Kant's categorical imperative ?

[SilverLi]

I would ask him if he watches Family Guy, American Dad, Adventure Time or whatever comes to my mind and ask him if he think that's porn too because they are animated (his logic). Even better examples would be animated stories of something but I lack examples.  But yes I would't deny most of them are with sexual contents.

 

But yes VN:s aren't for anyone and if the first thing they see is hentai porn they are a lost cause no matter what. Japan is a lot more than that.

[Nimbus]

My reaction.

[Snowtsuku]

I get to choose my ending.

[OriginalRen]

I think the fact you used the word heathen in a spoken sentence says a lot about this story.

[Kosakyun]

Would've said that there's more to it besides the porn, but I like my mamarries.

[iamnoob]

I'd just introduce the guy to Steve and never have to deal with him again. 

 

One step at a time.

 

We're supposed to make him like visual novels not turn into a lolicon.

[Bolverk]

Honestly I'd just cut him off there or shrug it off, change the topic. He honestly only showed interest in confirming his own views. But if I actually thought it was worth trying..

 

My response would be something around expanding on why I like vn's.

Me: "I prefer the combination of the anime way of telling stories and the novel media."

If he does show some interest, I'd expand it with examples of western movies and books. Compare them to anime and vn's.

 

Honestly in the first place if I was Tay I'd hide my powerlevel lol.

[kyrt]

Honestly if you know anything about the person you can fire back at them but if you don't it might be a little tougher.

 

Option 1: Explain how people view different things with various degrees of eroticism because that is what their subconscious is perceiving. Basically they are only seeing the characters and visual novels as porny because that is what they wish to see.

 

Option 2: Explain that visual novels are no different from many movies/tv shows/books in that it tells a great story and sometimes this includes showing a sex scene. Ask them if they've ever watched a movie, tv show, or sex scene in it and explain that visual novels sometimes but not always have content added to it for the same reason it does in any mainstream medium.

 

Option 3: Tell them to not judge or discuss the topic with you until they actually bother to try one, as anything said without experiencing a vn for oneself is pure biased prejudice based on misconception.

 

Option 4: consider him a loss cause unless he seems to have a legitimate interest. Sometimes people say that they think anime is porny because they are trying to hide their interest. 

 

Option 5: show them fate/zero or human crossing to try and defeat the misconception they have of anime being porny.

 

Option 6: Explain to them that you prefer to read works that are slightly different from the average and visual novels are good because they allow a greater connection/understanding of the characters because they often have loads of character development (in the good ones). 

 

Option 7: Ask why read books or comics when you could just watch movies or tv or go outside etc...that's kinda a dumb response from them why not just read comics/books. Because you like the medium of visual novels no other answer needed.

 

Option 8: Ignore them. Continue on with your life not everyone is going to be on the same page.

 

Option 9: Admit it.

[Lewycool]

Show him real Hentai. Then show him Saber and ask again if he still thinks its porn.

[TexasDice]

Guy: "Is there a lot of that? The Japanese porn drawings?"

Me: "Yes."

 

And guy was hooked. Next case.