Fuwa? What happened?

[ohiowar]

3 – Forum management should be mostly on auto-pilot to free up time for your more important and sinister shenanigans, but the mods are too willing to indulge in disrespectful threads as long as things are fun. “Fun” is the new catch-cry by the Fuwa higher-ups it seems. They fling it out like it’s one of the core tenets guiding the management of the site, and as long as things are fun then things should be allowed to continue. Anybody against fun threads is just another “hater of fun.” You know what? I think I’ll apply this principle in society. I’m going to sit in front of the homeless and burn hundred dollar bills, I’m going to run round and round those with no legs then do high-kicks, and lastly I’ll sit next to the sightless and loudly proclaim what a blessing it is to be able to see. I’ll be enjoying myself, I won’t be breaking any laws, so everything’s just peachy right? Right? Or maybe Fuwa doesn’t want to be the internet equivalent of a snot-nosed brat?

 

 

You are taking thing to a crazy extreme. As I have said calm down and have so fun if you are easy  offended by thing maybe you should take the time to relax. Not everything need to be taken seriously. I am not really see a huge problem on fuwa. Yeah they was to much trolling but going around calming sexism really. Many thread have been closed due to being offending to some people. You can't make everyone happy. You are going to run acoross thing you don't like on the internet. You need to learn to deal with it. Maybe fuwa does have a problem maybe it does not. What I am seeing is people who are mad do to thing they don't like and think the froums should change because they want it to change. Fuwa has always had shit pointless threads and some not so nice threads.. Most forums do you can't just have vn talk all day long. I wish I was a better writer. Maybe people who are taking thing too serious are the porblem. Fuwa is a very good place. I am happy to be a member here even so i do not post much

[Yuuko]

I understand that you are not targetting me with this point Lewy, but please stop. As a personal request from me, this makes me extremely depressed and uncomfortable as a member of this forum knowing I am viewed as someone who sexually objectified women in a video I made for my YouTube channel. It seems to be such a problem that a whole rule needs to be made about it. Regardless if I apologize or not, the damage has been done and the constant reminder to state that sexism is an issue on Fuwanovel now makes me realize my humor that I have been able to enjoy for over a year is now viewed as trash. I am genuinely afraid to post anything anymore for fear it will be viewed as racist or sexist.

 

I don't want to be reminded of that, so please keep it to a PM?

I'm sorry if you don't want to hear about this again but I wanna make sure you'll still keep making us fun videos.

I haven't watched all your videos but your jokes and talk about butts is okay and fun for me in your figure videos but for some people an entire video dedicated butts was just too much. So you need to just refrain yourself from making that kind of video again

[Darklord Rooke]

You are taking thing to a crazy extreme. As I have said calm down and have so fun if you are easy  offended by thing maybe you should take the time to relax. Not everything need to be taken seriously. I am not really see a huge problem on fuwa. Yeah they was to much trolling but going around calming sexism really. Many thread have been closed due to being offending to some people. You can't make everyone happy. You are going to run acoross thing you don't like on the internet. You need to learn to deal with it. Maybe fuwa does have a problem maybe it does not. What I am seeing is people who are mad do to thing they don't like and think the froums should change because they want it to change. Fuwa has always had shit pointless threads and some not so nice threads.. Most forums do you can't just have vn talk all day long. I wish I was a better writer. Maybe people who are taking thing too serious are the porblem. Fuwa is a very good place. I am happy to be a member here even so i do not post much

 

Fuwa is a place with a respectful atmosphere, it’s not a place where sexual objectification of women can be claimed to be okay because people are enjoying themselves, that’s not kosher. And whether it’s allowed is not your call to make.

 

I know of at least one woman member who was on the verge of leaving because of your funny funny threads, so I DO see a problem. Especially when it’s a goal of Fuwa to be more welcoming to that section of the fanbase.

 

Fuwa isn’t the entirety of the internet, but a respectful and welcoming corner of it. Because it emphasises respect, it obviously has some limitations of what is and what isn’t allowed behaviour wise. You don’t get to do whatever you like anywhere you like because you want to enjoy yourself, and you don’t get to behave as you please in the Chatter forums. You obey the tenets and principles of wherever you happen to be.

 

And if I was a woman I wouldn’t be anywhere the hell near Fuwa. Maybe that’s why most of them aren’t.

[Chewy]

Let me add that this "problem" of yours isn't actually very special, Most forums I have lurked around are a LOT worse than Fuwa to the point where the forums die. Also, I think you are just feeling a bit nostalgic. Everything will change, one way or another. I'm sure some people would have heard someone there say "back in my day"....People always believe that something they like used to be good. It happens when something changes, you like how it used to be for you are used to it. Newer members like me joined when the forums were pretty much as it is now. That could be the source of the change. The stream of new members+slight change over time has added together to form quite a large change. But of course, I'm just a "newfag" and don't understand anything.

 

Also about the sexism and whatnot, yes it's bad, yes people got offended, but it isn't the worse thing in the world. Why can't people just move on after they realise everyone is repenting? This is like the damn second world war where everyone hates the Japanese people and the Germans. Why can't people in their hearts find the guts to forgive these people?This will just lead to further sadness, anger and tensions.However bad something is, people should learn to forgive. 

[ohiowar]

Fuwa is a place with a respectful atmosphere, it’s not a place where sexual objectification of women can be claimed to be okay because people are enjoying themselves, that’s not kosher. And whether it’s allowed is not your call to make.

 

I know of at least one woman member who was on the verge of leaving because of your funny funny threads, so I DO see a problem. Especially when it’s a goal of Fuwa to be more welcoming to that section of the fanbase.

 

Fuwa isn’t the entirety of the internet, but a respectful and welcoming corner of it. Because it emphasises respect, it obviously has some limitations of what is and what isn’t allowed behaviour wise. You don’t get to do whatever you like anywhere you like because you want to enjoy yourself, and you don’t get to behave as you please in the Chatter forums. You obey the tenets and principles of wherever you happen to be.

 

And if I was a woman I wouldn’t be anywhere the hell near Fuwa. Maybe that’s why most of them aren’t.

My thread. I did not even make any of the trolling threads. Fuwa is very respectful place. And yes it not my call or your call to make.

[Lewycool]

Let me add that this "problem" of yours isn't actually very special, Most forums I have lurked around are a LOT worse than Fuwa to the point where the forums die. Also, I think you are just feeling a bit nostalgic. Everything will change, one way or another. I'm sure some people would have heard someone there say "back in my day"....People always believe that something they like used to be good. It happens when something changes, you like how it used to be for you are used to it. Newer members like me joined when the forums were pretty much as it is now. That could be the source of the change. The stream of new members+slight change over time has added together to form quite a large change. But of course, I'm just a "newfag" and don't understand anything

I feel like you're missing the point. I've said this before. 

 

"The thing is, why would you even want to be like them? It's like when you're in school and the teacher tells you off but you say "But he/she is doing it too". It doesn't matter what the other VN communities do, it's about what we do And what we do to represent ourselves and how to show that we really care about what we all believe in."

 

 

You're really stretching the "New member" right there...

[Darklord Rooke]

 Fuwa is very respectful place.

 

Relative statement, it doesn't rank in the top 5 forums regarding places I visit.

 

And yes it not my call or your call to make.

 

You do realise it's Tay's intent to clamp down on that sort of trash? Feel free to keep disregarding anything you don't like to hear though.

[Deep Blue]

 

And if I was a woman I wouldn’t be anywhere the hell near Fuwa. Maybe that’s why most of them aren’t.

Come on...you can't be serious about that, yes there are some thread that won't appeal to most of the female genre but I've been here like half a year already and nothing changed much since the first day to be honest and I have never seen any user being disrespectful against a woman, they do joke around a lot and this can be taken in some offensive way but the internet is like that, you can't take the things in a forum in a serious way...I'm not saying we shouldn't improve on that or that it's ok but I think you are going too far.

[Darklord Rooke]

Come on...you can't be serious about that, 

 

Deadly serious, actually.

[Mr Poltroon]

Let me add that this "problem" of yours isn't actually very special, Most forums I have lurked around are a LOT worse than Fuwa to the point where the forums die. Also, I think you are just feeling a bit nostalgic. Everything will change, one way or another. I'm sure some people would have heard someone there say "back in my day"....People always believe that something they like used to be good. It happens when something changes, you like how it used to be for you are used to it. Newer members like me joined when the forums were pretty much as it is now. That could be the source of the change. The stream of new members+slight change over time has added together to form quite a large change. But of course, I'm just a "newfag" and don't understand anything.

 

Also about the sexism and whatnot, yes it's bad, yes people got offended, but it isn't the worse thing in the world. Why can't people just move on after they realise everyone is repenting? This is like the damn second world war where everyone hates the Japanese people and the Germans. Why can't people in their hearts find the guts to forgive these people?This will just lead to further sadness, anger and tensions.However bad something is, people should learn to forgive. 

That's like saying that doing a bad thing isn't bad because you know people who've done it worse than you. That's not how it works.

[Deep Blue]

How can you avoid sexism even as a joke when the forum is based on vns and almost 90% of the vns out there are sexist, kinda like a paradox...

[madvanced]

I think that there is one thing that a lot of people are forgetting here. Making a joke isn't necessarily a bad thing just because you find it a bad one. By that logic any relation to dark humor would be something that should be forbidden by common sense then.

 

Finding something offensive is per the user's own values and one one can change those. The matter here is that we are putting some user's notions of what's acceptable and/or right above that of others. You may call it order, but I call it dictatorship. Who is to say that your view is better than another's? Common sense? What can you even attribute to common sense? As you can see it just goes in circles.

 

Of course we can't be without our biases, that's a given, however when something is clearly made as a joke, and you can understand that fact, the moment you try to make it out as something serious is when you are missing the point and losing your reason.

 

You say that Fuwa is a very welcoming and friendly community and I find that to be right, that's why I stuck around for as long as I did, however wanting everything to be sunshine and rainbows is pure foolishness. The brighter the light the bigger the shadow, you just can't erase some parts of anything just because you don't like them, these very acts harm the community even if you don't think that they do.

 

Fuwa was always spammy and always had it's fare share of pointless threads, with questionable senses of humor. The point is that when we are out of the groups that make those (inside) jokes, we feel that they are pointless and that we should do away with them, a simple conflict of opinions.

 

However taking something out of context and blowing it out of proportion, is in my subjective view(because whose views aren't subjective?), a really low blow.

 

On a last note(on this train of thought) the very fact that you say that any kind of thing out of your sense that is right is "trash" is discrimination in it's own right.


Now for something that is somewhat related, the thing about the sexism that's being thrown around. Liking a certain morphology on the gender that we feel attracted to isn't objectifying. Sure we all strive to find people in which we find their "insides" to be according to what we want to be around with, however completely dismissing the notion that we have physical preferences is abhorring.

For example I happen to like legs, now if I say(or think, if you prefer it that way) that a certain girl's legs are according to my preferences is it sexism? No, it's just a natural response on a psychological level.

 

It would be sexism if I said that every girl should be like that and that the rest are worthless. So if that isn't implied in any way, shape, or form it's not sexism.

[Darklord Rooke]

How can you avoid sexism even as a joke when the forum is based on vns and almost 90% of the vns out there are sexist, kinda like a paradox...

 

You mean how I don't beat the shit out of my fellow "Fight Club" fan? Because Fight Club is obviously about violence and therefore acting out that violence is necessary, yes?

 

You discuss the notion of sexism, you don't engage in the practice.

[Chewy]

That's like saying that doing a bad thing isn't bad because you know people who've done it worse than you. That's not how it works.

I get a feeling that people are also missing my point... I'm saying that this isn't the end of the fucking world. That's what some people are making it seem like. Yes its bad. Yes its pretty fucking bad. But people should calm down and think for a minute. That's more what I meant. Also are people missing the second paragraph....

[Darklord Rooke]

I think that there is one thing that a lot of people are forgetting here. Making a joke isn't necessarily a bad thing just because you find it a bad one. By that logic any relation to dark humor would be something that should be forbidden by common sense then.

 

[Deep Blue]

You mean how I don't beat the shit out of my fellow "Fight Club" fan? Because Fight Club is obviously about violence and therefore acting out that violence is necessary, yes?

 

You discuss the notion of sexism, you don't engage in the practice.

[Kurisu-Chan]

WHen it's constant, constant jokes about sexism, its not funny anymore.

 

Let's say, you live in a town, where everyday, everyday, with no stop, townsmen do jokes about your Origins, sometimes very harsh jokes, do you really think you'll find it as funny as at the first day?

 

Dark humour is hard to use, because you have to target everyone, if you target only a category of citizens, it's not Humour, it's discrimination, it's racism. 

[Darklord Rooke]

WHen it's constant, constant jokes about sexism, its not funny anymore.

 

Let's say, you live in a town, where everyday, everyday, with no stop, townsmen do jokes about your Origins, sometimes very harsh jokes, do you really think you'll find it as funny as at the first day?

 

Dark humour is hard to use, because you have to target everyone, if you target only a category of citizens, it's not Humour, it's discrimination, it's racism. 

 

Your point will probably be ignored, because it interferes with people's "fun"

[Mr Poltroon]

I get a feeling that people are also missing my point... I'm saying that this isn't the end of the fucking world. That's what some people are making it seem like. Yes its bad. Yes its pretty fucking bad. But people should calm down and think for a minute. That's more what I meant. Also are people missing the second paragraph....

Shall we then let it rest and sit on our arses instead of getting our opinions out there?

 

A group of members are expressing their opinions on Fuwa direction and standards of posting. Unfortunately it does not work in such a way that people can remain calm at all times. Telling people to calm down while this is going on is a waste of breath.

For example, I am discontent about this kind of threads being out there and so I complain about it. On the other hand, some members defend them using 'oppression' as a justification, and while we argue our cases, a middle term is probably what Tay and/or the mods are striving for. Otherwise they also have an established opinion and until we hear from our Lord almighty, the only thing we can due is attempt to convince them through discussion.

I'm not here to take stabs at other members views as much as I am trying to make mine known or discrediting others from my point of view.

 

This all said, I take issue with the content/amount of joke/immature/troll threads there have been on the coliseum of chatter. This because of my personal view and because I believe it just brings out a terrible, unnecessary image. Since there's a thread to discuss this in, here I am. *bows*

 

Also about the sexism and whatnot, yes it's bad, yes people got offended, but it isn't the worse thing in the world. Why can't people just move on after they realise everyone is repenting? This is like the damn second world war where everyone hates the Japanese people and the Germans. Why can't people in their hearts find the guts to forgive these people?This will just lead to further sadness, anger and tensions.However bad something is, people should learn to forgive. 

If this is what's happening them my bias is clearly clouding my judgement. I have nothing against those who did these things, I just don't want it to happen again.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Tiagofvarela

[madvanced]

I love how you use the term bad, as vague and subjective as the term is of course it wouldn't be a bad thing... if you applied a certain set of standards usually found in the young and the male. But when it denegrates women to sexual objects one can reasonably assume it will cause offense, and even if it does not it cannot be construed as providing a welcoming atmosphere to women, which is what Fuwanovel is actually about.

 

 

One could, but the idea of providing a welcoming atmosphere is that one shouldn't be expected to.

 

 

It's called a community. I advise you learn to live in one.

 

 

It is very simple, you live in a community where a certain organisation or person runs the joint. These people's view are better than yours, holier than yours, and the only ones that matter. Don't like it? Look at all the fucks I give.

 

 

Like Fuwa erased torrents? 

 

 

Strawman. Congratulations.

 

 

Laughable attempt at justification.

Well that is but your own point, as always I take it with a grain of salt(because that's how anyone should do on matters such as this) and may or may not agree.

 

Now the mention to torrents is not even relevant, and the justification that you appoint as laughable is perfectly fine, if you don't agree with it, there's nothing further that I can add to it.

 

On another note, yes I know what is to live in a community, the fact that you are trying to leave out what you believe to not be right could point that affirmation right back at you.

 

You also consider the term bad as vague(in which I completely agree) but when I applied that logic, it suddenly had no bearing for some reason.

 

But my big point is that you are taking a joke and putting out of context as something serious. All communities will have their fair share of immature(or of lesser level if you want to classify them as such) jokes, expecting anything related to that is either not knowing what human interaction is or just the nature of a control freak(note: I'm not calling anyone as such, before anyone tries to tear this down).

 

"Don't like it? Look at all the fucks I give." I could consider such sentences as this immature and childish myself, what is not to say that it is not offensive to someone? I digress though.

Also no, that is not in any way, shape, or form the strawman fallacy. Because in terms of the actual meaning what I'm saying is right, it's just that the ethical views on it may vary.

 

Again these are my 2 cents, I don't intend them to have any actual relation to a universal truth or something even close to that. What bothered me about this incident is that some people decided to tear part something that at it's core was harmless(I know, subjective opinion) and made it become part of a serious problem.

[Kurisu-Chan]

Well Rooke, sorry but i also disagree with you, you're being extreme, my view is that i'm okay with sexist jokes as long as it's well usen and that it don't become the standard rule.

 

But your view of Fuwa scares me, i don't want a political correct forum with a big brother. 

[Deep Blue]

WHen it's constant, constant jokes about sexism, its not funny anymore.

 

Let's say, you live in a town, where everyday, everyday, with no stop, townsmen do jokes about your Origins, sometimes very harsh jokes, do you really think you'll find it as funny as at the first day?

 

Dark humour is hard to use, because you have to target everyone, if you target only a category of citizens, it's not Humour, it's discrimination, it's racism. 

I agree, that's why I said it should be fixed or toned down at least by some degree because thinking that you can just erase it 100% is a bit naive...

And yes dark humor is always a step behind racism that's why I don't use it on the internet (I love dark humor) but I use it only with friends, same thing goes with joking about sexism or any other senstive matter.

[Turnip Sensei]

While I agree that some of the trolling threads and especially the follow up spam went way too far, I wouldn't say everything like that should be banned from the forums. Something is lost if you can't joke about sex anymore. But more consideration for others is never a bad thing.

 

 

But as a newcomer I can say that Fuwa is pretty welcoming. I haven't seen any noob bashing and people are generally friendly and accepting. The intimidation factor on Visual Novel boards is pretty high though. I was afraid of posting because I felt like my opinions didn't matter and were inferior to the VN gurus' opinions. But feedback was really positive and encouraging, something I haven't seen elsewhere. My initial expression wasn't that Fuwa is full of elitist or sexist pigs, but open to all kinds of discussion. And I haven't seen any malicious joking. Tasteless sometimes, but not something that was meant to hurt or degrade others.

[suikashoujo]

So people are speaking for the entire female population of Fuwa even when they don't fall into that category now, huh?

 

When I signed up for a forum that was centered around eroge, I knew what I was getting into. I knew that I was going to be in the minority, but you know what? I didn't really care. I found a place where I could talk freely about these things, and as a result, I've never felt the need to censor my thoughts when posting here. And you know what? I have never once felt "discriminated against" or whatever else some people are calling it now. I've never felt like I've been treated differently because I'm a woman. Ever. I've never once been asked why I only play games aimed at men when I could be playing games aimed at women. The fact that I obsess over female characters has never once been questioned. If these things had happened, and people were ridiculing me  for it, THEN I would be willing to call sexism. Someone singling me out for my gender would be sexism. Threads about how attractive butts are may seem immature to some, but it's not offensive. There's definitely a fine line between the two, in my opinion, and I genuinely don't believe that Fuwa crosses it. Note that this is just one person in a group of many, but as part of the group involved in this particular issue, I think it's worth mentioning.

 

In terms of inside joke threads? Yeah, I see where people are coming from on that. As someone who is more content to sit on the outside of things sometimes, I do think the amount of topics that are aimed only at a select group of people is a bit unfair. That is one point I will agree on.

 

But honestly, the site really doesn't seem THAT different from when I joined in 2013. There's always been spam, there's always been meaningful discussion, and there's always been everything in between. It would be boring if we only had discussion, and it would be irritating if we only had spam. But the two CAN coexist, and that's one of the things I love about this place. 

[hsmsful]

Is it only me or the video that's been mentioned here and made all that ruckus was actually not offending and not sexist in any way? (if it was offending to anyone , it was hestia : < )

 

Stop trying to pin the crime of sexism on that video and that thread, it's like saying that things like Isis-chan on youtube are offending to muslims.

 

Even if you do see it to be offending, the guy in question deleted the video and apologized, isn't that enough? can't we lay the whole thing to rest already? This like a waste of time especially to some busy people like Tay.

 

And I will stress on this part since it's rather really important: Fuwa is the same as back then , don't make it seem as if you suddenly woke up from your long slumber and found fuwa very different, the only difference here is that the people who make these pointless threads are people who you are not accustomed with at all. And that doesn't mean that they should stop it. They totally have the right to make them as much as you had the right to back in the day. 

 

if there is anything different now, it's that there are no lolis and no steve as much as before