starlessn1ght Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Ooooor...you can just admit that people have different opinions and not start a flame war over something that has literally been discussed to death God knows how many times Except I wasn't here back then, despite I would've liked to. Quote
Darklord Rooke Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Ooooor...you can just admit that people have different opinions and not start a flame war over something that has literally been discussed to death Boring Quote
wyldstrykr Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 why play vn with gameplay that takes a lot of time playing than reading? Quote
Satsuki Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 why play vn with gameplay that takes a lot of time playing than reading? Quote
iamnoob Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Instead of being focused on the terminology, you could try to teach them more about VNs or give them more information first instead which allows them to come to the conclusion by themselves. You could tell them about non-H VNs and talk about them. Eventually or perhaps with a little push, they may ask you, " wait... This eroge doesn't have H-scenes, it's and eroge without ero" to which you can respond by saying it's a VN and then explain the differance between eroge and VNs. Roundabout I know, but I usually go this way of giving them imformation and trying to lead them to ask the questions themselves. Quote
Pabloc Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Tell them to read a non-eroge VN (like Narcissu, it's short and easily accessible). Then, tell them to play a non-VN eroge. Ideally something with as little text as possible, like Punisher - that's a pure platform game without any text at all (well, maybe not the best example - it's not suitable for sane people ). This should help them understand what's the difference between "VN" and "eroge". Quote
Funnerific Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Tell them to read a non-eroge VN (like Narcissu, it's short and easily accessible). No offense to Narcissu fans but had that been my first VN I never would've picked up another one, probably (the heavily limited art assets being one of the reasons). It's just not a good demonstration of the medium in my opinion. Quote
Pabloc Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 ^ Yeah, it was just an example I picked because of it's accessibility - it's obviously not for everyone (definitely not suitable for people who don't like drama or titles without good artwork). I wasn't supposed to be a good demonstration of the whole medium, though. Just the all-ages part of it. Quote
storyteller Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I must say, I had the impression VNs = eroge back in the day, as well. And it's not particularly wrong, per se. There are good amounts of visual novels with sexual content after all. *Granted, I started my journey into VNs with a Nukigee, so that was quite certainly an Eroge This is just one of those things you can't figure out unless you actually go and do it though. Like what happens whenever you tell people to read Onani Master Kurosawa. Everyone looks at you like you're crazy, but if they ever actually read it, it's just so much more. I'd actually guess Symphonic Rain wouldn't be too bad a place to start. Never played the all-ages version of Deardrops, but think that might be good, too. And then there's always Ever 17, which actually goes out of the way to not show the sex scenes? Or was that just a version I was playing. Quote
Eclipsed Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Saying VNs = eroge is like saying Adult Novels = pornos Quote
storyteller Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 And they aren't? Jokes aside, if they didn't have excessive sexual themes I'd probably just classify them under General Fiction. Quote
douggle Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 The way I see it, you really don't need to correct them, as long as you enjoy it, it shouldn't matter what label people try to attach to it Quote
GLM4475 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Posted June 12, 2015 So some of you don't care whether vn=eroge, some of you accept that just fine and the others want to clear the misunderstanding. In the first place, when and where the term VN officially used and who the hell did it for what purpose. He/they should know VN better than most of us. Quote
Satsuki Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 In the first place, when and where the term VN officially used and who the hell did it for what purpose. So non-Japanese players don't have to remember a bunch of Japanese terms that they have no idea what the hell do they mean. Quote
Pabloc Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 In the first place, when and where the term VN officially used and who the hell did it for what purpose. He/they should know VN better than most of us.Genres don't work like that. They aren't created by one person/group, they just pop up naturally. And if they make describing and classifying stuff easier, they stay. In Japan, what we label as "VNs" is divided into two main genres - the vast majority of titles are classified as adventure games (all those that have a textbox), while some are called "novel games" or "visual novels" (those that display the text over entire screen, like Fate/Stay Night). But, since we already had the adventure games genre on the West (point-and-click stuff), and it's completely different than jADV, the VN term was adopted for the whole medium. And it works. Quote
GLM4475 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Posted June 13, 2015 So non-Japanese players don't have to remember a bunch of Japanese terms that they have no idea what the hell do they mean. Genres don't work like that. They aren't created by one person/group, they just pop up naturally. And if they make describing and classifying stuff easier, they stay. In Japan, what we label as "VNs" is divided into two main genres - the vast majority of titles are classified as adventure games (all those that have a textbox), while some are called "novel games" or "visual novels" (those that display the text over entire screen, like Fate/Stay Night). But, since we already had the adventure games genre on the West (point-and-click stuff), and it's completely different than jADV, the VN term was adopted for the whole medium. And it works. So the term is just for naming/grouping covenience, I see. Quote
SakuraKoi Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 VN = Animal. Eroge = Dog. Dog = Animal, Animal # Dog. Eroge = VN, VN # Eroge. So... why did people continue to argue after this post and seemingly ignored simple and plain old logic? Seriously, whether VNs started off as Eroge to establish the medium (since sex sells) or not does not matter at all, the present is what does and it is a fact that it becomes more and more possible for All Ages VN Creators to become financially successful (turning their hobby into a living) since at least a part of the potential readers which acknowledge the medium do not mind if there is no H and even pay for a good or funny story (it does not even need to be Youtube-hyped). Quote
Nightmare799 Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 I love the irony in this. Sex in movies? All part of the story! Sex in vns? Go watch hentai. Anyways, people are horribly losing out. To miss stuff like fate/stay night and Devil on G-string just because of few H-Scenes is like not going to a music concert because you dont like warm-up bands. Quote
Pabloc Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 So... why did people continue to argue after this post and seemingly ignored simple and plain old logic? Because it's wrong? Not all eroge are VNs. Quote
sanahtlig Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 So... why did people continue to argue after this post and seemingly ignored simple and plain old logic? Does this look like a VN to you? Quote
douggle Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Because it's wrong? Not all eroge are VNs. Again why bother correcting them, I stopped worrying about that kind of thing ages ago. Let them think what they want. Quote
GLM4475 Posted June 19, 2015 Author Posted June 19, 2015 Does this look like a VN to you? Damn, that link makes me realize that I like 2D arts much more than half-baked 3D arts. Quote
nohman Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Damn, that link makes me realize that I like 2D arts much more than half-baked 3D arts. To be fair, that is old game. Though Illusion games do significantly vary in art style, so some of the newer titles are (arguably) uglier than that. Quote
Virtuesque Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Well you can also explain it simply to them by comparing VNs to mangas or movies. For mangas you can explain with simple categories like there are Shonen/Shoujo (target teens: usually sfw stories without nudity or sex, except for occasional fanservice), Seinen (target adults: sex can be used in the plot but rarely central to the plot -there may be counterexamples but I can't think of any at the moment) and hentai (target adults too, but sex is central to usually non-existent plot). For movies it's the same... PG-13 for teens, R for adults and finally plain and simple pornos. Each have their purpose, each are different. Same for VNs. Then again it's up to you and your amount of patience. If you believe they can be interested, why not try? If you know them enough to believe they won't care, why would you? Quote
kratoscar2008 Posted June 21, 2015 Posted June 21, 2015 No. Eroges and Visual novels goes on hand. You can play them for diferent reasons but the heart of the matter that the medium is tied heavily with porn to the point that the general opinion is that VNs are porn wish fullfillment medium. Dont need to be ashamed to acknowledge the main aspect of the medium. For the record of the VNs you played how many of them had ero content? Quote
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