Muv Luv: A Pretty Sweet Visual Novel Series Kickstarter [MILLION DOLLAR BABY]

[Dergonu]

Just now, Hirei said:

It could also be that I was asking about items from my supervisors, not ignoring.

I did honestly take your responses as being quite rude and very angry/frustrated.

Ah, well apologizes for that. There has been absolutely no ill intent in my words, though it seems it came out that way.

2 minutes ago, evan said:

evan here from the ML team confirming that 18+ scenes were edited simultaneously to all-ages scenes. just echoing @Suffolkthe notion that either one was given priority in the translation regard isn't accurate. as @WinterfuryZX speculated, there is additional work to be done when backporting from a PS3/VITA all-ages release to a PC release that includes both. you will know as soon as we know. in the mean time, i hope you know that these scenes were not just removed, but replaced with new lines and scenes that appear in english for the first time in this release, along with additional CGs you won't see if you only play the 18+ version. i do, however, totally understand the desire to want to have the original experience, and appreciate the fact that many people will want to wait for the patch before they start playing. just figured i'd at least throw that out there for those interested.

Thanks for the reply.

I will indeed be waiting for the patch to drop before I buy the game. I'm glad our voices are being heard though!

Thanks for your hard work guys.

[Hirei]

We sincerely hope you enjoy the patch in full glory once it comes out.

[Mkilbride]

1 hour ago, Hirei said:

We sincerely hope you enjoy the patch in fully glory once it comes out.

Something about this comment...feels dirty. Haha.

[Hirei]

The business of eroges are dirty in general. ;p 

[appp]

16 hours ago, evan said:

in the mean time, i hope you know that these scenes were not just removed, but replaced with new lines and scenes that appear in english for the first time in this release, along with additional CGs you won't see if you only play the 18+ version.

As a first time reader of Muv-Luv, I think some of the transitions after the cut content can still be a bit awkward. So far I've only read Miki's and Kei's routes (getting the shortest endings first to unlock the gallery), and at least for Miki it think it could have been better: they're basically hugging and kissing, and the next line goes something like "After we desecrated this holy place" (not an exact quote). I was like "uh? 'desecrated'? isn't that a bit strong for a bit of cuddling?" before realizing that was probably just after a H-scene happened. Had have not known the original release was 18+ I'd still be confused about that line. Kei's was much better in that regard (it's obvious what they're going to do in that situation) but again a plain "I still feel you inside of me" (again, not an exact quote) from her could have been eased up a little in the All-Age version. Something like a narrator line "Well, we did it". Haven't read the other endings so I can't comment on them.

But anyway the rest of the translation flows incredibly well so I certainly can't complain apart for that. Good work!

[evan]

2 hours ago, appp said:

As a first time reader of Muv-Luv, I think some of the transitions after the cut content can still be a bit awkward. So far I've only read Miki's and Kei's routes (getting the shortest endings first to unlock the gallery), and at least for Miki it think it could have been better: they're basically hugging and kissing, and the next line goes something like "After we desecrated this holy place" (not an exact quote). I was like "uh? 'desecrated'? isn't that a bit strong for a bit of cuddling?" before realizing that was probably just after a H-scene happened. Had have not known the original release was 18+ I'd still be confused about that line. Kei's was much better in that regard (it's obvious what they're going to do in that situation) but again a plain "I still feel you inside of me" (again, not an exact quote) from her could have been eased up a little in the All-Age version. Something like a narrator line "Well, we did it". Haven't read the other endings so I can't comment on them.

hi there, glad you're enjoying the translation. both of the lines you mentioned are fairly direct translations of the japanese, and it's the decision of the localization team not to artificially alter their meaning. the "all-ages" moniker is a bit misleading, i'll admit - in all of the scenes, the script does explicitly confirm that sex takes place, and most make direct references to it that are not intended to be subtle whatsoever. some are more blunt than others in this regard, but this is 100% intentional. basically they removed the porn while keeping the sex, if that makes sense. sorry if you feel this is discomforting, but this is the creator's intent. while i've certainly taken my fair share of liberties with the script, to change this to be any more vague isn't really something i'm comfortable doing as a translator. changing kei's line, for example, would require altering the entire game to either remove her VA or record a new line to replace it. this is not within the scope of this project whatsoever. we're not the developer of the game, just the localization firm. as such, we don't get to make changes like that. this is the same all-ages version that's appeared on PC and consoles for almost a decade, so while i definitely can appreciate your concern, the game's written in language that's pretty clear-cut and doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation. i'm truly sorry if you feel like the in-game disclaimer or tagging on the steam page was insufficient in this regard. 

[appp]

2 hours ago, evan said:

sorry if you feel this is discomforting

Don't worry, I don't think it is

Actually, I shouldn't have brought up Kei's line; as you said it's pretty clear they've just had sex (and the Steam page has an age warning, and I'm pretty sure most people buying this know where it came from and most have played other eroge before, myself included). Miki's the only one I feel noteworthy because when I read it I really had no idea something other than the kissing part had happened. I don't know Muv-Luv beforehand so the actual H-scene could have been anywhere for all I knew. That's why I ended up confused—not annoyed or anything, just confused, in the "wait did I miss something there?" sense. That being said maybe I simply missed something in the script before.

Also you seem to be a bit on the defensive, so I wanted to mention that I wasn't really criticizing the translation (which is near perfect) or expecting any change, I simply wanted to relate my experience. I'm not a native speaker so it must have come out wrong, sorry about that.

[evan]

4 minutes ago, appp said:

Don't worry, I don't think it is

Actually, I shouldn't have brought up Kei's line; as you said it's pretty clear they've just had sex (and the Steam page has an age warning, and I'm pretty sure most people buying this know where it came from and most have played other eroge before, myself included). Miki's the only one I feel noteworthy because when I read it I really had no idea something other than the kissing part had happened. I don't know Muv-Luv beforehand so the actual H-scene could have been anywhere for all I knew. That's why I ended up confused—not annoyed or anything, just confused, in the "wait did I miss something there?" sense. That being said maybe I simply missed something in the script before.

Also you seems to be a bit on the defensive, so I wanted to mention that I wasn't really criticizing the translation (which is near perfect) or expecting any change, I simply wanted to relate my experience. I'm not a native speaker so it must have come out wrong, sorry about that.

no worries at all! i guess i jumped to conclusions about the nature of your comments, assuming you found them more unwelcome than merely jarring. thanks so very much for the kind words, i truly do appreciate it.

for what it's worth, i absolutely agree that the miki one in extra is very poorly transitioned (no good segue from romance scene, and keeping that desecration line from the adult scene definitely does raise some question marks), but this is an issue with the japanese as well. i do think you'll find the rest of the scenes to be more well-integrated with the new non-pornographic content. you just happened to choose an awkward outlier as your first (or second) one, in my opinion. my hands are kind of tied on that line translation-wise, but if we hear more feedback like this we'll definitely discuss it further.

your english is pretty flawless, don't worry. my fault for misinterpreting it, sorry.

[appp]

I'd like to clarify what I meant in Kei's case (spoilers: @evan, you're perfectly right). Right now we have the All-Ages version of the game, which means of course that the sex scene that happens near the end of her route was left out. As usual, the romance arc between her and the hero gets completed right before that. This mean there's a romantic build-up going on. My gripe with that line is that it's so explicit it utterly destroys that romantic mood while doing very little other than stating that the obvious intercourse did happen. If it were the 18+ version, that wouldn't have happened because the mood would have changed during the H-scene.

What I failed to notice is that it's a conversation topic or at best a legitimate criticism, not something you bring up to the translation team. Your point was so painfully obvious I can't believe it didn't occur to me: you're not editing the game, you're translating it into the most pleasant yet faithful script you can achieve. And even if you had such freedom (say it weren't a professional project), that's still pretty much a subjective matter and one that alter the original meaning at that. I still think Age could have done a better job with its All-Ages version in that regard, but it's definitely not something you should worry about.

Back to Miki, I think this is a much worse mistake from Age (since you're saying it's the same in Japanese). Again, it's because it really isn't obvious the H-scene is happening during a first read: they're not in bed, it's not clear the route is almost over (they could have perfectly followed up with a rematch or whatever) and even if it were they could just go elsewhere first. Therefore the 'desecrating' line really seems like it refers to what the reader has really seen them doing, which is basically kissing. It becomes a problem because it can make sense: maybe the archery hall is so holy simply kissing in there is blasphemy. It's just plain stupid. That's why it was so confusing to me. I understand there's not much you can do if Age prefers to keep it the way it is (or if it's just not important enough for them to hear), but it did affect reading for me and I couldn't have known it comes straight from the Japanese (plus you had just told us about adaptations in the All-Ages version which I wrongly assumed came from the translation team).

Anyway, I won't take any more of your time. Thanks for replying back then.

[evan]

10 hours ago, appp said:

Anyway, I won't take any more of your time. Thanks for replying back then.

not a problem at all! thanks for voicing your opinion, it definitely is of value to us. i'd love to hear what you think of the game when you finish the entire thing, so if you feel so inclined, e-mail me at enjoievan(at)gmail(dot)com when you're done. would love to read your overall thoughts.

[Mkilbride]

By the way, anyone holding off on buying...

 

The Cards /  Icons / Backrounds for this are selling for major cash. Every card is basically worth 75 cents roughly, I saw a backround going for 18$!  With several icons for 8-10$. You could make your cash back.

[Decay]

You could make some of your cash back, if you got really lucky. Otherwise you'll just make a few bucks back via cards. 

[Dergonu]

>Possibility of getting your money back from buying the game, but play it without boobs

>Wait, get boobs

...

[MFrost]

Oppai & Pantsu 4evah!!!

 

I'm really just waiting for PhotonFlowers and PhotonMelodies. I forget, were they translating Altered Fable or Kimi Eizen(sp?) as well?

[Vorathiel]

1 hour ago, MFrost said:

I'm really just waiting for PhotonFlowers and PhotonMelodies. I forget, were they translating Altered Fable or Kimi Eizen(sp?) as well?

Altered Fable have main vn story + some strategic game + few extras.
One of the Photons contains that VN story from Altered Fable + few other scenarios from different fandiscs and spinoffs. So yeah, 'meat' from Altered Fable will be transalted and released. ^^ But Photons are basically PS3 destined fandisc compilations. So they're without H content. Will see how it will go, I believe evan on stream from 'muv luv release party'* said that they will try to do something about it.

You can also check Photonflowers and Photonmelodies vndb pages, to see what are they contain:
https://vndb.org/v15238
https://vndb.org/v15239


What do you mean by Kimi Eizen(sp)? If you're asking about Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, then answer is yes - evan is working on that in his spare time, and it was officialy announced few weeks ago at Anime Expo. It was just said that they will officialy release localized version of it, but nothing more besides that, no details, no nothing.

*

Spoiler

 

 

[Mkilbride]

3 hours ago, Dergonu said:

>Possibility of getting your money back from buying the game, but play it without boobs

>Wait, get boobs

...

Boobs are coming. A 18+ Patch is going to be released for it. So you can have BOOBS, and potentially get the game free.

[Decay]

There's no way to get the game for free, even the most expensive items on the steam marketplace don't cover the cost of the game. And you have to gamble by buying additional cards to have a chance at obtaining those rarer, more expensive backgrounds and stuff. I would not recommend anyone gamble like that if their main goal is just to save money, the chances of it working out are very low.

[Tatsujin]

On 6/29/2015 at 5:23 PM, LinovaA said:

GAHHH! I was just in the middle of typing up a post for this. xDDD

 

 

So tell me people:

 

Born ready. Didn't support the Kickstart. I'd rather see that Schwa-whatever get a Kickstart, not something that's already been translated.

[Mkilbride]

That is actually being translated. Due to the success of the KS.

[Tatsujin]

Awesome. Are they selling physical copies, obviously for all 3 of the games? EXTRA/Unlimited, Alternative and Schwa.

[Mkilbride]

I think Physical copies were Kickstarter only, for Extra / unlimited & alternative. Schwa is in the early stages, not much is known.

[Vox Chaotica]

Watching the Unlimited credits roll as I type this, I have to say the translation - and experience as a whole - is significantly improved over the initial fan-translation. Do we have an estimate other than "late-2016" for the release of Alternative? I'm having a bit of difficulty finding word about it, but I'm certainly unable to wait for it - along with photonmelodies/flowers and Schwarzesmarken, of course.

[Mkilbride]

I read like October or November.  Seems quite aways away. I mean the script is almost the same as it was before, when you do a side by side comparison, so I can't guess why it's taking so long.

[Decay]

1 hour ago, Mkilbride said:

I read like October or November.  Seems quite aways away. I mean the script is almost the same as it was before, when you do a side by side comparison, so I can't guess why it's taking so long.

You could not possibly be more misinformed on the difficulties of proofreading, editing, and TLCing a flawed translation. I recall you elsewhere posting a figure citing a 94.7% likeness to each other. I heavily doubt that figure, but even still, they're both based on the same source material, and a good percentage of Ixrec's script was okay. This does not mean it was a good translation or that the improvements they made weren't dramatic. Changing a single word in a line can lead to huge effects in its accuracy and readability.

An example of this in the excerpt I posted a few pages back was the "It's your fault" -> "It's your own fault." Adding one word to a thirteen word line changed its tone by a fair amount. It wasn't a dramatic difference, but it's still a noticeable difference. Some lines won't be changed at all because they're fine. But if most lines have these kinds of minor differences, which they do, combined with the much larger sweeping changes you see every so often, it creates for a dramatically better reading experience overall. You will almost always have a high likeness rating when working with the same script.

I'm working on the Dracu Riot completion patch. I am the lead editor on the project and have been leading an effort to give the entire existing translation editing, QC, and TLC passes. I can assure you that our team has been working our assess off for months now, me included, yet you will probably see a very similar likeness rating from us. These constant "minor" changes require you to analyze each and every line and then come up with ways to make them better. The number of total line rewrites end up actually being pretty low, and even then they tend to use a lot of the same words. That's just how writing works.

TL;DR: You are misunderstanding your own statistics and what it means to accomplish them, and their effect on the translation overall. It is way more work than you're imagining, and I can assure you the efforts do pay off well. Maybe you're not able to appreciate the efforts as easily because you're not a native-level english reader, that's fine. The new ML translation reads way better for me and practically everyone else I have talked to about it. I hope you know that to suggest that their efforts are worthless and shouldn't take much time is extremely disrespectful.

[Dergonu]

5 minutes ago, Decay said:

Snip

I think you are reading a bit too much into what he said. It's true that he might have underestimated the amount of work it takes, but I think calling him extremely disrespectful simply for coming up with a hopeful ETA is going a bit far.

It's not abnormal for people to start guessing when things will be done, and considering the fact that this does indeed at the very least have parts completed already, it's not strange for people to assume that the work won't take as long as certain other projects at the very least. I seriously doubt he meant any disrespect with what he said.