do you consider VNs video games

[Kabu]

I guess it depends on the VN but most of the time yes. I prefer to refer to myself as 'playing' VNs rather than 'reading them' especially when choices are involved, as it just feels weird to refer to it as simply reading when you're actually interacting with the story itself through the choices you make.

Though I've also never actually read any Choose Your Own Adventure books, so my perspective may be a bit skewed.

[tymmur]

8 minutes ago, Silvz said:

Better question: do you consider VNs porn?

Isn't that the same as asking: are movies porn? It' pretty much depends on the contents. There are nukige with no real story, which pretty much lives up to the criteria as porn while there are all age VNs, which clearly doesn't. Then there is the thing in between. Hollywood has the thing in between as well and that isn't porn. They do go quite far and have actually transmitted STDs during recordings of non-porn movies produced in Hollywood.

[WinterfuryZX]

21 minutes ago, Silvz said:

Better question: do you consider VNs porn?

no

[Valmore]

6 hours ago, ratboi said:

I personally don't. I mean I just don't see how they are video games.

Well, they have visuals to go with a storyline with a goal of making it to the end of the story to earn a final reward of a good ending and hopefully a great CG scene. They utilize a system that gives it a game element by giving choices. (Anyone else remember choose-your-own adventure game books like Lone Wolf and Grail Quest?)

So yeah, as long as the choice system is present, then it's a game. A heavily story-driven game, but a game.

[Khazit]

Yes.

Traditionally, Adventure Games have a lot in common with VN. Usually, the only differences between them are the occasional puzzles in Adventure  games, and many AG have very little, or even almost none, puzzle elements, and are still considered video games.

[Darklord Rooke]

1 hour ago, Khazit said:

Yes.

Traditionally, Adventure Games have a lot in common with VN. Usually, the only differences between them are the occasional puzzles in Adventure  games, and many AG have very little, or even almost none, puzzle elements, and are still considered video games.

Adventure games contain exploration, a narrative, and puzzles. A game which contains only a narrative and puzzles would more likely be classified a 'puzzle game'.

[Clephas]

Again with this 'debate'?  lol

I see VNs as a storytelling medium.  You both 'play' and 'read' them, but the 'play' element generally takes a distant second place to the 'read' element.  VN hybrids are the exception, not the rule.

[ratboi]

5 hours ago, Valmore said:

Well, they have visuals to go with a storyline with a goal of making it to the end of the story to earn a final reward of a good ending and hopefully a great CG scene. They utilize a system that gives it a game element by giving choices. (Anyone else remember choose-your-own adventure game books like Lone Wolf and Grail Quest?)

So yeah, as long as the choice system is present, then it's a game. A heavily story-driven game, but a game.

that makes a little more sense I guess.

[Freestyle80]

they are novels to me, novels with a lot of pictures 

the only stuff i consider games are those that require effort to finish ;P

[Ningen]

I only consider VNs with animated scenes Video Games.

The other's are just computer games

Unless they are on console.

[HMN]

6 hours ago, Silvz said:

Better question: do you consider VNs porn?

Yes.

porn games ftw.

 

[Baldur]

7 hours ago, Silvz said:

Better question: do you consider VNs porn?

Most people wouldn't buy them if they couldn't fap, so... They could be considered porn from this point of view.

[Khazit]

24 minutes ago, Baldur said:

Most people wouldn't buy them if they couldn't fap, so... They could be considered porn from this point of view.

Funny, I got into VN looking For Academic Purpose material.

Then I found out that fapping to them are considerably harder than just go to dedicated porn site...

[Baldur]

8 minutes ago, Khazit said:

Funny, I got into VN looking For Academic Purpose material.

Then I found out that fapping to them are considerably harder than just go to dedicated porn site...

People like the format. You speak of dedicated porn sites, but well, we'd have only two types of vn, all-ages and nukige.

[Khazit]

3 minutes ago, Baldur said:

People like the format. You speak of the dedicated porn sites, but well, we'd have only two types of vn, all-ages and nukige.

I mean, nowadays, if I want to fap, I just go to porn sites.

I read/play VNs just for the story.

[Baldur]

Just now, Khazit said:

I mean, nowadays, if I want to fap, I just go to porn sites.

I read/play VNs just for the story.

Me too. But that's not how it works in general.

[Kabu]

26 minutes ago, Khazit said:

Funny, I got into VN looking For Academic Purpose material.

Then I found out that fapping to them are considerably harder than just go to dedicated porn site...

To be honest, I find all eroges (even nukiges) to be completely unfappable for some reason even if it looks like it could be fappable. I'm not entirely sure why since I don't have this problem with porn or hentai and it feels kind of weird.

[Stormwolf]

Do you consider a games a video?

[kingdomcome]

No.

DO YOU consider the 'choose your adventure' Goosebumps novels a game?

[WinterfuryZX]

3 minutes ago, kingdomcome said:

No.

DO YOU consider the 'choose your adventure' Goosebumps novels a game?

well, they are called "librogame" here (libro means book).

[kingdomcome]

7 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

well, they are called "librogame" here (libro means book).

Ha. That's interesting, thanks for info. So maybe there is no answer

[Scorp]

There is no clear definition what a "VN" is. So question is quite retard.

Bunny Black or Raidy is not a game? No? Ace Attorney is not a game? Really? Maybe Sengoku Rance is not a game too? And Melty Blood is not a fighting too?

That's just ridiculous.

Librogame? You ever heard of Thief and Sword series? Does not look different from these "librogames".

So I believe you can name any game genre and it is possible to find a "VN" on vndb, belonging to it.

[Scorp]

8 hours ago, Rooke said:

Adventure games contain exploration, a narrative, and puzzles. A game which contains only a narrative and puzzles would more likely be classified a 'puzzle game'.

Almost any VN from Alicesoft have all of these 3 elements. And if compare with quests - check YUNO and try to find any difference between old-schoool adventures (apart that your character is not on the screen). I see almost no difference, apart chinese porn pixelart.

[Lucius]

I know that a lot of VN fans get pissy whenever they're told that VNs are not games, like it's an insult upon their honor. Personally, I couldn't care less, seeing as I'm not a hardcore VN fan myself. Personally though, I don't treat most of them as games. I know some VNs have gameplay in them, but I grew up with the notion that a game is something you could play, not the archaic definition of "something that provides amusement".

Considering that the reading and clicking part of VNs are what VNs are about, and VNDB openly dismisses any titles without either of those elements (Madoka Magica PSP is not a VN according to them), I don't see why the selective amount of VNs with gameplay in them would make up the meaning of what a visual novel is. In other words, if a visual novel that sacrifices the VN elements for gameplay isn't a visual novel anymore according to VNDB, then why would a game that sacrifices gameplay for visual novel elements be considered a game? It's the same logic. In short, visual novels are not games, according to VNDB - or at the very least, VNs that lack gameplay shouldn't be considered games by gaming websites, just like how VNDB doesn't consider VNs without VN elements to be VNs, even when they obviously look like VNs in parts (Madoka PSP and Digimon Adventure PSP).

And even if we go by that other definition about how games are things that provide amusement, I don't gain much amusement from reading (I hate books with no pictures), so that definition wouldn't fly for me anyway.

In the end, it all comes down to semantics and which definition you prefer to use. It's an exhausting conversation with no point to it except to defend your ego, to prove that you're in the right and the other guy who disagrees with you is wrong.

I think the part about all this that I'm more bothered by isn't technically whether if I should call VNs a "game" or not, but whether if I am playing a VN or reading it. To me, saying that I'm 'playing' a visual novel makes no sense to me because the syntax of that word used in this context just feels inappropriate. Again, this goes back to my familiarity with the more modern usage of the word, "play", as opposed to "engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose." Personally, regardless of what the dictionary says, a good game has to be more than just clicking and reading. So even if you call VNs games, they aren't very good games to me, albeit being good reading materials. Unless I actively have a big role in the storytelling through the selection of dialogue choices, I don't consider myself as 'playing' anything, merely being an observer to a story unfolding. I might as well be reading a book. And you wouldn't say, "I'm playing Neil Gaiman's American Gods", would you?

[jalakasue]

On 2016/7/22 at 4:37 AM, Asonn said:

No they are not fucking games, geez. It's goddamn literature! who am I kidding, I can't call it literature as a 2 year old could most of the time write a better and more insightful story than most VNs (moeges)  writers do. so I have no choice to call it a game. 

then, Why there's no such an interesting book made by 2 year olds(lol) in stores?