Best Non-Moege You've Ever Read.

[MaggieROBOT]

No Saya no Uta yet? So there goes my vote!!!

[VirginSmasher]

4 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

 

My man. 

27 minutes ago, littleshogun said:

Honestly moege term was wrong because the meaning of moe is 'deep feelings felt towards a particular subject', and I think it's possible to develop that feeling to all of VNs (Yes, including Himawari, ChuSingura, Senshinkan, Ever17, and some more). So in theory we could call all of the VNs as moege lol, as long as you like it deeply. At least in my opinion, although of course everyone have different view on that.

That may have been the original definition, but it's definitely not how you'd describe a moege.

[ChaosRaven]

Kara no Shoujo for me.

And I guess suggestions like Hoshimem, Grisaia or Himawari weren't really serious - far too many moelements.

[Zakamutt]

He only said non-moege, not "must have this few moe elements".

Anyway the charage hoshimemo, duh. I refer to OriginalRun's masterful review

[VirginSmasher]

1 minute ago, Zakamutt said:

I refer to OriginalRun's masterful review

Go away Swedish man. 

[Asonn]

Japanese title would be: Natsukuru

and if I had to limited myself to English I would go for: Cartagra.

[Mr Poltroon]

It's hard for me to figure out what is or is not a moege.

When I try to remove cute girls from the picture, I end up with otome.
When I try to remove 'moe' art from the picture, I end up with Western VNs that weren't going for that kind of art.

The first title I see on my list that is both a traditional VN and is certainly not a moege is Remember11.

There are other choices I'm not so sure on, but which I prefer to the previous: The Second Reproduction, One Thousand Lies, Never7, or Don't Take it Personally Babe, it Just Ain't Your Story.

[Plk_Lesiak]

40 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

It's hard for me to figure out what is or is not a moege.

When I try to remove cute girls from the picture, I end up with otome.
When I try to remove 'moe' art from the picture, I end up with Western VNs that weren't going for that kind of art.

Well, there's also all the games that escape the typical, multi-route fluffy romance scheme and differentiate themselves through artstyle, like pretty much all the Innocent Gray titles (yeah, after giving it a bit of thought I would argue that Flowers is definitely not a moege series, considering its story structure and main themes) and things like Danganronpa. Plus maybe some of the more mature-themed chuunige, like Dies Irae? There is a bit to choose from. :>

Actually, I have a feeling if we would delete all Moege, JP VN scene would suddenly look very innovative and not dependent on overused tropes and juvenile sexual fantasies.

I'm not joining the anti-moege squad though. I sometimes want to turn my brain off with something fluffy and colourful, and that Princess Evangeline copy awaits to aid me in my hour of need (EDIT: Or more like a week of need? That's one important reason I don't have many moege's on my VNDB list, they're all so frickin' long :<).

Edited February 6, 2018 by Plk_Lesiak

[Clephas]

Personally, I consider Hoshimemo to be a story-focused nakige... but as I previously outlined (on numerous occasions), 'moege' is a massive umbrella genre that encompasses parts of many others.  The reason I have a tendency to think of Hoshimemo as a moege sometimes is because of Chinami, hahaha.

My favorite non-moege... is interchangeable based on what I want at a given moment.  Evolimit is my standard answer, but my 'favorite' can shift between fifty different  VNs depending on my mood.

[VirginSmasher]

3 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

delete all Moege

And you say you don't want to be a part of the Anti Moege Task Force. 

[Mr Poltroon]

2 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Well, there's also all the games that escape the typical, multi-route fluffy romance scheme and differentiate themselves through artstyle, like pretty much all the Innocent Gray titles (yeah, after giving it a bit of thought I would argue that Flowers is definitely not a moege series, considering its story structure and main themes) and things like Danganronpa. Plus maybe some of the more mature-themed chuunige, like Dies Irae? There is a bit to choose from. :>

But herein lies the problem.

If I discount less traditional VNs (like DanganRonpa), I've practically no non-moege rated above 7. I'm sure there's a lot of other stuff that does not qualify as 'moege' per say, but certainly makes use of elements generally connected to moege to attract costumers, like me.

[Plk_Lesiak]

1 minute ago, VirginSmasher said:

And you say you don't want to be a part of the Anti Moege Task Force. 

I have a feeling that even in-context, that quote will be used against me one day.

[Dreamysyu]

5 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Actually, I have a feeling if we would delete all Moege, JP VN scene would suddenly look very innovative and not dependent on overused tropes and juvenile sexual fantasies.

I don't feel this is even remotely true, honestly.

And you forgot about nukige.

[VirginSmasher]

Just now, Plk_Lesiak said:

I have a feeling that even in-context, that quote will be used against me one day.

Just say "It's a prank" and you'll be fine. 

[Plk_Lesiak]

34 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

I don't feel this is even remotely true, honestly.

And you forgot about nukige.

More like "purposefully ignored its existence", it's like you normally don't mention Pornhub when discussing movie genres.

And I was just joking, but Moege (especially if we define it narrowly, as fluffy romance games with multiple routes and focus on fairly lighthearted SoL content) do constitute this somewhat unfortunate core of very iterative, often rather boring and disappointingly shallow VNs. I don't have anything against the genre per se or try to take away anything from shit-ton of truly great VNs that fit into it, but I'm actually drawn towards titles that escape most of these elements and try to offer something different. I personally think that's where the most intriguing and compelling stuff lies - what doesn't prevent me from enjoying very standard SoL and romance both in anime and VNs.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Plk_Lesiak

[VirginSmasher]

7 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

More like "purposefully ignored its existence", it's like you normally don't mention Pornhub when discussing movie genres.

And I was just joking, but Moege (especially if we define it narrowly, as fluffy romance games with multiple routes and focus on fairly lighthearted SoL content) do constitute this somewhat unfortunate core of very iterative, often rather boring and disappointingly shallow VNs. I don't have anything against the genre per se or try to take away anything from shit-ton of truly great VNs that fit into it, but I'm actually drawn towards titles that escape most of these elements and try to offer something different. I personally think that's where the most intriguing and compelling stuff lies - what doesn't prevent me from enjoying very standard SoL and romance both ion anime and VNs.

Moege as a whole is extremely shallow and mostly boring to me, but all genres have mediocrity flooding it. It's just that we're fortunate enough in the West to only have mostly good VNs localized from said genres. Despite this, even good moege pale in comparison to legitimate story VNs. Hence why no moege I've ever read has broken an 8 rating.

[NowItsAngeTime]

2 hours ago, VirginSmasher said:

Moege as a whole is extremely shallow and mostly boring to me, but all genres have mediocrity flooding it. It's just that we're fortunate enough in the West to only have mostly good VNs localized from said genres. Despite this, even good moege pale in comparison to legitimate story VNs. Hence why no moege I've ever read has broken an 8 rating.

Good is a point of view, VirginSmasher.

Moeges and story VNs are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for reader entertainment.

Anyway my answer is probably the Ever17 or Symphonic Rain.

[onorub]

IDK, i always found Noble Works and Dracu-Riot to be good "shut your brain off and have fun" kind of VNs. They certainly aren't 10/10 material, but i don't even think they are trying to be. They're just romantic comedies with dorky sexual humor and it's fine to me.

For the answer, i guess Clannad is a moege so i'll go with Fate/Stay Night.

Edited February 7, 2018 by onorub

[VirginSmasher]

28 minutes ago, NowItsAngeTime said:

Moeges and story VNs are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for reader entertainment.

Every medium is on a quest to entertain the viewer in some way. Also, the roots of moege and story VNs aren't that similar. Moege are for enjoying cute girls doing cute things and turning your brain off usually. With story VNs, it's obviously quite different in that you usually have to think and comprehend things.

Also, I guess good wouldn't have been the best word. Should've said critically acclaimed instead.

[Nandemonai]

6 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Actually, I have a feeling if we would delete all Moege, JP VN scene would suddenly look very innovative and not dependent on overused tropes and juvenile sexual fantasies.

You forget nukige.  Imouto Paradise is chock full of all the overused tropes and juvenile sexual fantasies, and it is definitely not a moege.

[Kawasumi]

I will always stand by this, no shitty bloated SoL, everything felt relevant, something the writers people consider to be the kamiges of the kamiges cant stop doing (looking at you masada)

[Rin91]

Wait, is this a "Best VN" discussion where I can't say Majikoi? I don't care, it's my answer anyway.

Tsukihime was good though.

[Overlord87]

Well, Muv Luv Alternative, hands down.