Storytelling in games

[InvertMouse]

I've been playing Dark Souls and came across this video:

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y-YvxPvqOmE

 

Titled "Is Dark Souls the Future of Videogame Storytelling?" In Dark Souls, the bosses etc have no clear backstory. However, small hints are dropped, and fans stretch them into full blown lores. The advantage is you spend most of your time actually playing the game rather than listening to babble. Some would argue that's how video games should be.

 

Of course, that's quite the opposite as VNs, which are all about pages upon pages of words. I grew up wanting to write novels. Now I build games, but I want to carry the writing craft across to my new endeavor. Videos like the above make a great point and so it makes me (over)think these things. Perhaps even concerned if I feel paranoid. Recently, Narcissu came out on Steam, and I hear folks saying it's boring because it has no gameplay. Everyone's different, but you get the idea.

 

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this topic as it's great research material for me. No doubt, it probably comes down to personal taste, which is cool, too.

 

Thanks .

[Katatsumuri]

as long as I can understand the story and I think the story is good, I don't care about the way it is told. Different ways to tell a story holds no meaning to me, as long as I thought it was a good story.

[Steve]

Yes, I've been saying this for a long time, don't tell the story through videos, that's what movis already do, tell the story through the world, through the exploration, through the GAMEplay - since this is a game, not a visual novel or a movie. DS is a prime example of story done right.

 

But I understand there are people who prefer to be lead by hand through an easy game and watch movie like that with some occasional choice, but I just don't like those "games". I don't see difference between that and a visual novel - and VNs do it better.

 

I've already rambled about this a lot in other topics so I won't repeat myself, but yes, I completely agree that games should focus on the gameplay and telling a story through the gameplay and that way every player has an unique experience.

 

So ill just leave this video here which which I mostly agree (warning: some DS spoilers)

http://youtu.be/2lnq44iwiVM

[DimDito]

But I understand there are people who prefer to be lead by hand through an easy game and watch movie like that with some occasional choice, but I just don't like those "games". I don't see difference between that and a visual novel - and VNs do it better.

Like Heavy Rain, Indigo Prophecy, and Beyond: Two Souls?

[Guest]

I personally love backstories.

Hell, I even get more interested in the story than in the game sometimes.

A couple examples : Portal 2 and Halo.

 

Portal 2 was a jewel interms of gameplay and story telling. And the funniest thing is that most of these things aren't even told to you. Every thing is visual, hidden and it's up to the player to make his own idea of what happened.

More generally i love Valve's world, black messa, G-man, apperture science. Just genius.

 

And regarding Halo, what I love is the complexity and the scale of the story. I don't remember much but it left a great impression on me.

[Steve]

Like Heavy Rain, Indigo Prophecy, and Beyond: Two Souls?

 

exactly xD

 

I've watched those games on youtube and felt no need to ever "play" them even though i've enjoyed them - and thats imo a bad game design.

When there is a true game like DS, like FTL, like whatever that has gameplay - I see someone play the game and I want to play it too with my own hand, have my own experience, my own story I create through the gameplay. But when the experience is the same for everyone, just like with a movie or a book, there is no reason for me to play the game since I can just watch it on youtube.

[Nosebleed]

I'm not much of a gamer and barely play anything but for me as long as the story is good it rarely bothers me the way it is told.

But I could agree for something as interactive as Dark Souls a more inovative way other than movies and amounts of text is a much more appealing way to tell a story.

[DimDito]

Gotta love Valve games. Gotta love Valve games!!

 

exactly xD

 

I've watched those games on youtube and felt no need to ever "play" them even though i've enjoyed them - and thats imo a bad game design.

When there is a true game like DS, like FTL, like whatever that has gameplay - I see someone play the game and I want to play it too with my own hand, have my own experience, my own story I create through the gameplay. But when the experience is the same for everyone, just like with a movie or a book, there is no reason for me to play the game since I can just watch it on youtube.

Well Quantum Dreams games take branching structures even more inconveniently than most visual novels out there. I wouldn't say it'd be the "same experience for everyone". I suppose the premise is that it's somewhere in the middle of 'game' and 'movie'. I also wouldn't say this means the games are clattered and have lost value. They just appeal to gamers who are looking for a more cinematic experience, even if it means having their hand held through the entirety of game.

 

But yeah, I personally prefer a game focused on gameplay with subtle story elements to them. 

[fun2novel]

I am so tired of this discussion. Games can tell stories. Dark Souls doesn't tell a story, it's just a collection of a few details here and there. This is NOT a story and it is NOT revolutionary in any way. Super Metroid did a better job at telling a story and it was released over 10 years ago. Complaining how cutscenes break 'immersion' is not the way to go. Games have an infinite number of ways they can tell a story. It is all about the kind of experience you are looking for. Uncharted would not be the same with it didn't have a story, Metal Gear would not be the same if it didn't have the cutscenes, Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls would not be the same had their design been approached as a standard videogame, heck even Bioshock will not be the same experience if it wasn't for story and cutscenes.

 

If you don't like cutscenes and story in game? Fine, this doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same. Most people will agree that the current way of putting notes for the player to find throughout the environment is not a good way to tell a story. In fact I don't even bother with searching for notes anymore, I just don't care about it, if you want to tell a story then tell a story don't force the player to read all these small pieces.

[InvertMouse]

Thank you everyone who took interest in the discussion ! It's great to hear what everyone's thoughts are. Helps out a lot. Thanks. Hope to read more if folks have anything to add.

[Yeah Way]

I think it's wrong to say that "Dark Souls" is the first game to do this. It's the first game of its size to rely so heavily on this technique. Of course, this is still a great step forward. 

 

Personally, I've wanted games like "Dark Souls" for years. I remember playing "Oblivion" and reading one of the many ingame books, trying to imagine if a whole game's narrative were told through such optional sources rather than via forced awkward dialogue.

 

I think "Dark Souls'" method of storytelling ought to be embraced. It's most especially useful for RPGs where the character is created by the player. In the past, devs have had to leave room for player-creativity by giving their characters no personality, or at least no voice (see "Shin Megami Tensei"). This could be the start of a path that leads to the player having a bigger say in just who the player-character is and thereby having a more active role in the game's narrative. 

 

In short, it's a big deal.

[Clephas]

Dark Souls II's method is not new or unusual.  It was used for most survival horror  and mystery puzzle type games on the old systems, due both to a lack of writing talent they could use and the limitations of the hardware.

 

To be honest, I don't really enjoy the series' story at all.  I never really feel involved with the game's story at all in Demon Souls, Dark Souls, or Dark Souls II, despite all the effort I make actually playing the game.  This is an inevitable result of the fact that the series is basically a modern version of the old roguelikes, where fighting monsters and bosses was better than 99.9% of the game and the story was just an excuse for uglier monsters. 

 

VNs, on the other hand, basically hand you the story on a platter, with text and pictures.  Considering that I'm a bibliophile before I'm a gamer, I generally prefer this method for storytelling, when possible. 

[shcboomer]

For me, I feel like storytelling really depends on the game. Having to figure things is not necessarily a bad thing, but most of the time I'd rather have some ending where I can go: "Hey, this scene earlier led to this and things turned out like XYZ." I'm not necessarily saying that not having a story or having players figure out the story is a negative aspect. However, I feel like there should be some sort of story in the game. Mindless games are fun for a bit, but unless it's super competitive or something you can play with friends, the enjoyment level goes downhill pretty fast.

[InvertMouse]

Thanks for the additional responses! It's interest to hear people's varying opinions on the topic .

[Clephas]

Looking back on the jrpgs of the distant past, I have to shake my head in astonishment about how well they did their stories with so many limitations on what they could do with the hardware at hand.

 

Take Chrono Trigger, for instance.  For all the somewhat comical look of some of its characters (Frog and Robo), it was an intensely emotional story, that could draw tears and laughter from anyone who played it, even people who didn't like role-playing games.  

 

If anything, modern storytelling in games has... degenerated since most of the limitations present in old games were removed.  Look at music direction, which was once a profession responsible for creating most of the emotionality and atmosphere in a given game (especially role-playing games).  Do you think you would even recall the themes for half the games you've played years ago if you were to play them now? Even big names like Final Fantasy or Star Ocean don't manage to have memorable music direction (as opposed to composition) anymore.  Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Suikoden, Dragon Force, and others all spoiled me  when it came to the usage of music.  Heck, I literally can't remember ANY of the themes from any Final Fantasy after X.  People, especially game makers, really do underestimate the sheer power of a well-used bit of music these days. 

 

Edit:  I should clarify.  There are games that only need one type of atmosphere (such as the 'Souls series) where it is easy to set the atmosphere simply by running a bunch of similarly-themed tunes.  It is games with stories that contain many complex emotions and themes where a good music director will shine.  I'm mostly complaining about the fact that even big name rpg and VN companies seem to have lost this art to an extent. 

[itsJazz]

I have to agree with Clephas, music is a major factor in gameplay for me. Probably the reason why I love Kingdom Hearts so much besides the storyline is the music. Although that applies to any media (movies, animes, vns). I mean, the scenes I remember the most are the ones that have the most fitting music that just flows alongside what's happening. It sets the mood, and burns the scene into my mind... Then I have to get the soundtrack and listen to that song N amount of times to remember the feels....

 

Alas, I'm into RPGs, but I haven't played them in a long time. I will say that storytelling is slowly failing in the game industry, at least on the mainstream over here in the United States. It's mostly on gameplay and fulfilling the player's desire to beat the game/get the most achievements and BOOMBOOMEXPLOSIONACTIONBAM. I know more people in real life that prefer games that don't even have a storyline or barely has those elements than ones that do (That's what books are for, wuuutttt?).

 

I think it's also on peoples changing lifestyle, how they don't have to read a lot in their everyday life (twitter, tumblr, insta, lol jk idk), nor think for all that matters (calculators, computers). It's just not seen as entertaining anymore, what when we have games like flappy bird that can entertain the masses even more... Though that's just my two cents on how people are changing.

 

I really don't have much in mind to say because I'm behind by about 5 years now. I don't know how much games have changed since I'm playing games from before this whole shift.

[Qwertymann]

Story telling in games seems to be on a decline in games (looking at you, CoD/BF) but there are still plenty that can do it well. Environmental story telling is favoured because there's no stop to the game play. That's what a game's original intention is, anyway: to game. That said, when a game has a great story but executes it poorly, it can be very jarring.

 

An example of this is Star Wars: the Old Republic. I think the story for the game is actually pretty decent. But I think it's executed rather poorly. The main reasoning for this is because the abrupt, constant changes in pacing. Over and over again it's like the game has two modes: intense action, then sit around for 5-10 minutes talking and making choices. There are probably more examples of that, but something like that can be really grating once you go through it so much.

 

Sometimes, I just want to kill things. Sometimes, I just want to get involved in deep thought from a story. This game's divided effort makes it feels as if it half-asses both of these things.

 

But at the end, all that matters is if the game is good objectively. If the story telling and game play can be intermingled perfectly, the game will be great.

[Seath]

Edit:  I should clarify.  There are games that only need one type of atmosphere (such as the 'Souls series) where it is easy to set the atmosphere simply by running a bunch of similarly-themed tunes.  It is games with stories that contain many complex emotions and themes where a good music director will shine.  I'm mostly complaining about the fact that even big name rpg and VN companies seem to have lost this art to an extent. 

None of the Souls games have music outside of boss battles, and I wouldn't call anything from from a Souls OST similarly tuned or badly composed. The only thing to set the atmosphere in a souls game is the game itself.