About Remembering the Kanji

[castor212]

About RTK, guys. For those who completed it: What is volume 2 talking about, actually? Is it only the reading or does it gave you verbs and the likes too?

 

Also, is it fine asking this here?

[Nosebleed]

Volume 1 has 2049 standalone kanji and their primitive meanings. These are kanji taught in school (in Japan) and they're the more common ones.

Volume 2 is more complex, it has kanji compounds and how to pronounce them (with hiragana characters not romanized kanji so you should probably know your kanas before getting into it) and their meaning.

 

I'm only in volume 1 so I haven't actually started volume 2 but just from skimming through it and reading parts of the introduction that's what  it looked like to me.

[DimDito]

Volume 1 has 2049 standalone kanji and their primitive meanings. These are kanji taught in school (in Japan) and they're the more common ones.

Volume 2 is more complex, it has kanji compounds and how to pronounce them (with hiragana characters not romanized kanji so you should probably know your kanas before getting into it) and their meaning.

 

I'm only in volume 1 so I haven't actually started volume 2 but just from skimming through it and reading parts of the introduction that's what  it looked like to me.

If volume one mainly discusses literation of kanji, shouldn't you be able to read volumes 1 and 2 side by side?

[Nosebleed]

If volume one mainly discusses literation of kanji, shouldn't you be able to read volumes 1 and 2 side by side?

Not really. Because volume 1 has the kanji's primitive meaning (on their own) and teaches you how to remember how the character looks like, stroke order, etc. Volume 2 doesn't have this, just the kanji compounds and their reading/meaning so you should probably know the kanji they're using in it beforehand, hence why volume 1 is important.

 

If anything I'd say volume 1 is more important than volume 2 because if you can remember all the kanji in it then after you can start picking up compounds on your own and build vocabulary instead of having to force yourself to learn every single compound on volume 2 which is probably not as efficient.

[DimDito]

Not really. Because volume 1 has the kanji's primitive meaning (on their own) and teaches you how to remember how the character looks like, stroke order, etc. Volume 2 doesn't have this, just the kanji compounds and their reading/meaning so you should probably know the kanji they're using in it beforehand, hence why volume 1 is important.

 

If anything I'd say volume 1 is more important than volume 2 because if you can remember all the kanji in it then after you can start picking up compounds on your own and build vocabulary instead of having to force yourself to learn every single compound on volume 2 which is probably not as efficient.

...Doesn't that mean you're going to have to extensively go over 2000 kanji before being able to read the second volume? I mean once in a while volume 2 would provide reference as to the usage of kanji in volume 1 right? I haven't read any RTK book though, but that doesn't seem overly inefficient to me.

[Nosebleed]

...Doesn't that mean you're going to have to extensively go over 2000 kanji before being able to read the second volume? I mean once in a while volume 2 would provide reference as to the usage of kanji in volume 1 right? I haven't read any RTK book though, but that doesn't seem overly inefficient to me.

Let me put some screenshots to  see if I can explain better.

 

From volume 1 early on, this is teaching you the kanji for Three

As you can see it shows how the kanji looks like, the stroke order in which you write it and a small composition to help you memorize it better. It doesn't teach you how to pronounce it though.

Other kanji have more complex stories such as  the kanji for day and month

The focus of volume 1 is to teach you how to memorize, write and learn the kanji's primitive meaning because they can be very hard to memorize as stated in the introduction and learning how to write them is also another key point that can help you memorize them better (by writing them several times).

 

 

In volume 2 however you have a different approach.

Volume 2 is teaching you compounds with the kanji you should already have learned

Here's an example for Triplets

As you can see in here it's teaching you an actual word/compound (triplets) using the kanji for three(三), child (子)and the hiragana tsu (つ) connecting them, and then after that it shows you how to pronounce the compound, みつご (Mitsugo).

Knowing the kanji 三 and 子 is vital here so you can understand why the word was formed like that to give you a different meaning, without knowing these kanji beforehand you'd just know how to write the word itself and never really understand how it was formed.

 

Compounds are usually formed by joining 2 or more kanji with primitive meanings to form a different meaning (usually derived from the primitive meaning of the kanji used in it), but without knowing the primitive meaning you'll lack a lot of basic knowledge on how compounds are formed which will not be helpful particularly in self study since when you find a compound you don't know you can't really try and understand it because you won't know what the kanji used in it alone mean.

 

And this is why I said volume 1 is more important than volume 2 because if you know what the kanji alone mean you'll have a much easier time understanding compounds.

However if you want to just learn words without trying to understand why they are formed like that then sure you can jump right ahead into volume 2 but volume 1 is a very nice foundation in my opinion.

[DimDito]

Let me put some screenshots to  see if I can explain better.

 

From volume 1 early on, this is teaching you the kanji for Three

As you can see it shows how the kanji looks like, the stroke order in which you write it and a small composition to help you memorize it better. It doesn't teach you how to pronounce it though.

Other kanji have more complex stories such as  the kanji for day and month

The focus of volume 1 is to teach you how to memorize, write and learn the kanji's primitive meaning because they can be very hard to memorize as stated in the introduction and learning how to write them is also another key point that can help you memorize them better (by writing them several times).

 

 

In volume 2 however you have a different approach.

Volume 2 is teaching you compounds with the kanji you should already have learned

Here's an example for Triplets

As you can see in here it's teaching you an actual word/compound (triplets) using the kanji for three(三), child (子)and the hiragana tsu (つ) connecting them, and then after that it shows you how to pronounce the compound, みつご (Mitsugo).

Knowing the kanji 三 and 子 is vital here so you can understand why the word was formed like that to give you a different meaning, without knowing these kanji beforehand you'd just know how to write the word itself and never really understand how it was formed.

 

Compounds are usually formed by joining 2 or more kanji with primitive meanings to form a different meaning (usually derived from the primitive meaning of the kanji used in it), but without knowing the primitive meaning you'll lack a lot of basic knowledge on how compounds are formed which will not be helpful particularly in self study since when you find a compound you don't know you can't really try and understand it because you won't know what the kanji used in it alone mean.

 

And this is why I said volume 1 is more important than volume 2 because if you know what the kanji alone mean you'll have a much easier time understanding compounds.

However if you want to just learn words without trying to understand why they are formed like that then sure you can jump right ahead into volume 2 but volume 1 is a very nice foundation in my opinion.

Ooh I seem to have imagined it a bit differently... So when you said 'understanding compounds' is to understand its meaning without having to transform the individual kanji to words? I suppose anyone would be able to figure out which meaning to use based on context and other kanji in the compound. Well that makes sense, otherwise reading kanji would take far too long.

 

Anyway, thanks Nosebleed.   I should get a read on RTK myself.

[Nosebleed]

Ooh I seem to have imagined it a bit differently... So when you said 'understanding compounds' is to understand its meaning without having to transform the individual kanji to words? I suppose anyone would be able to figure out which meaning to use based on context and other kanji in the compound. Well that makes sense, otherwise reading kanji would take far too long.

 

Anyway, thanks Nosebleed.   I should get a read on RTK myself.

Yes it's basically teaching you a ton of compounds using the kanji in the previous volume and giving you the meaning of the compound, not of the kanji alone. So if you know the meanings of the kanji alone from volume 1 and they show you a compound in volume 2 you'll have a much easier time memorizing them and obviously understand them. 

I hope you enjoy reading it, it can be tiresome sometimes but it helps.

 

Mind you some compounds can have more than one meaning and in that case the context in which they are used does matter. But that's why, again, you should know about the kanji used in the compound beforehand as well. Just don't skip volume 1.

[Nagisa_Fawkes]

I have a question myself, I plan to read Volume 3, where it teaches roughly 1000 new kanji. Compounds with these kanji are in volume 2 or 3?

[castor212]

So, essentially, we learn how to READ the kanji in its actual use in real life in RTK 2?

[Zakamutt]

You could also just start reading vns with a text hooker once you grammar.

[Nosebleed]

So, essentially, we learn how to READ the kanji in its actual use in real life in RTK 2?

Pretty much.

Not EVERY single kanji compound but a lot of them.