fault milestone one Kickstarter

[SanadaShadow]

Most games are crap; 90% of AAA game industry is pure shit and people eat that stuff for breakfast and say it's good. What else do you expect? Only a bunch of writers are decent enough to pull it off, as I mentioned. That's why we most often read mediocre stories. Still, even those are enjoyable and people read them anyway. I'm still happy SP is interested in bringing up interesting doujin projects, rather than the crap you see on MG's front page. You need to learn to enjoy decent stuff, especially if it's made by amateurs; those games are often better than most AAA productions anyway, mostly because doujin creators aren't bound by the same set of restrictions AAA developers have to abide.

 

I still consider WEE a better pick. If you're looking for something interesting, you'd better get it instead of Fault, as long as you're able to cope with Hasekura's writing and points of interest. As for the western-oriented writing, it might mean a lot of things. It might as well be a blunder on SP's side; it might mean the world presented in Fault is more of a medieval fantasy and relate to our customs and traditions more than things that typically drive most of japanese fantasy settings. Eitherway, it might be interesting to check it out.

 

I am looking forward to this game. Whether it shall be to find out that it was actually good, or coming back to laugh at everyone who said it would be good, I am looking forward to it.

[Darklord Rooke]

You're all counting on it being generic but good, but look at statistics: most generic games tend to be bad rather than good.

 

I'm not counting on it being good, I'd need more information before I can tell one way or the other. I'm just not willing to write it off because it incorporates cliches.

 

And of course most of the time cliches are executed badly. Most stories that are written are written badly, or written in a way we don't like. Only a fraction of books that are written are published, and only a fraction of those actually appeal to us. So, bearing that in mind, using the law of averages, most stories with cliches will be bad and/or not appeal to us. But the same can be said for original stories. Most original stories are also bad and/or not appeal to us.

 

So saying that most "generic stories tend to be bad rather than good" doesn't really say much.....

[SanadaShadow]

I'm not counting on it being good, I'd need more information before I can tell one way or the other. I'm just not willing to write it off because it incorporates cliches.

 

And of course most of the time cliches are executed badly. Most stories that are written are written badly, or written in a way we don't like. Only a fraction of books that are written are published, and only a fraction of those actually appeal to us. So, bearing that in mind, using the law of averages, most stories with cliches will be bad and/or not appeal to us. But the same can be said for original stories. Most original stories are also bad and/or not appeal to us.

 

So saying that most "generic stories tend to be bad rather than good" doesn't really say much.....

 

What I mean is, it is my belief that FM1 is going to fail. Horribly. They could try something like Time Hollow's storyline, though. THAT would be quite awesome.

[Okami]

I'm not counting on it being good, I'd need more information before I can tell one way or the other. I'm just not willing to write it off because it incorporates cliches.

 

And of course most of the time cliches are executed badly. Most stories that are written are written badly, or written in a way we don't like. Only a fraction of books that are written are published, and only a fraction of those actually appeal to us. So, bearing that in mind, using the law of averages, most stories with cliches will be bad and/or not appeal to us. But the same can be said for original stories. Most original stories are also bad and/or not appeal to us.

 

So saying that most "generic stories tend to be bad rather than good" doesn't really say much.....

 

I agree with a first part, wee don't have enough information to decide if it will be good or bad.

 

But the second part, well WTF!? If I haven't misunderstood you you are basically saying that most stuff out there tend to be bad or not appeal to us.

[Darklord Rooke]

But the second part, well WTF!? If I haven't misunderstood you you are basically saying that most stuff out there tend to be bad or not appeal to us.

 

Well, yes. For example (your profile says you are a guy, this makes it easier) romance is by far the biggest genre out there, selling the most books and consistently providing more best sellers than any other genre.

 

How many of these books have you read, and how many do you intend to read in the future? I've actually read a few, I don't mind them. Apparently that makes me weird btw

[Darklord Rooke]

I’m just going to say my next point now, I have to go soon and can’t wait for a reply.

 

The word ‘bad’ is a subjective term, commonly used in regards to fiction when stories don’t meet our storytelling preferences. Jeremy Clarkson, for example, complains his wife reads books which have ‘no plot.’ To him this makes the book ‘bad’, but to his wife it’s a ‘great’ story. So bad doesn’t always mean ‘abysmal’, and the terms ‘bad’ and ‘doesn’t appeal to us’ are sometimes interchangeable ones when talking about stories.

 

SanadaShadow obviously likes a little bit of freshness with his story, to him these generic clichés is making the VN ‘bad’ right off the bat, but I think it just means it’s not to his liking. Plot, I think, is obviously important to him whereas it’s not very important to me. Once again interchangeable terms, objectively there’s no way of knowing if the story is bad or not until we read it, and even then we judge on preferences most of the time. I like prose to be of a decent quality, for example. I chucked Ben Aaronvitch’s books to the side because his prose contained sentences all of similar lengths. To me that makes the book bad, but apparently he’s quite popular. I must admit, he’s quite skilled at dialogue.

 

So yes, most stories out there won’t be to our taste or they’re bad (interchangeable terms.) Most of us will discard whole genres (most men won’t touch romance books for example) and even in the genres we like, we have a list of preferences books need to match. If I told SanadaShadow, for example, there’s quite a few original stories to be found in Mills & Boons, I doubt he’ll go rushing to the stands to check it out. They would be ‘bad’ in other ways, and humiliating in still different ones.

[garejei]

The Japanese version has a demo, I'm assuming the English release will come with one as well. (it should)

 

Edit: Ah, the Kickstarter page already says they're working on the demo. So there you go.

[SanadaShadow]

'SanadaShadow' seems so... formal. I'd appreciate it if you would shorten it to just 'Sanada', maybe. 

Although I do like some freshness in stories, it would be a disgrace of mine to completely disregard anything with cliches. Even if I feel I will dislike a book, I still pick it up and read anywhere from the first chapter in a one-shot to the first novel in a series. 

For example, I picked up three different manga yesterday, 'Jormungand', 'Blackbird' and 'Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan'.

I instantly took a liking to Jormungand, a story about an arms dealer and her mjourneys around the world with a child soldier, a mafia driver and seven ex-soldiers.

Blackbird consisted of various cliches, such as the main character being a helpless heroine, but naturally every yokai in the world wants her. To eat her guts. Because apparently, her guts will give the yokai the power to rule over all other beings. And then a childhood friend, who also happens to be an extremely powerful yokai hell-bent on marrying her. Add in every cliche imaginable and you get volume 1 of a 14 volume long cliche-fest. I absolutely hated it.

Rise of the Yokai Clan has just as many cliches as Blackbird, but it doesn't feel like cliches as much as normal plot. It is quite nice, pleasant in atmosphere and intense in fighting. It explains tactics perfectly and sets about a supernatural world that seems not too out of place when compared to ours.

Now, had I been biased about cliches, I would not have picked up Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan. I would have taken Jormungand, but it's only 11 volumes compared to Nura's 19 volumes, therefore more than halving the fun.

[Okami]

Well, yes. For example (your profile says you are a guy, this makes it easier) romance is by far the biggest genre out there, selling the most books and consistently providing more best sellers than any other genre.

 

How many of these books have you read, and how many do you intend to read in the future? I've actually read a few, I don't mind them. Apparently that makes me weird btw

 

Well in other media that might be so, however when it comes to Anime/VNs/Manga/LNs most fans who are more into it and for a longer times usually like all genres or at least 95% of them. True now that I think about it I don't really know why is that so myself. I just found this very interesting but this is a discussion for another thread so I will open one latter and get back to the topic here.

 

PS: Romance is my favorite genre when it comes to Anime/VNs.

 

'SanadaShadow' seems so... formal. I'd appreciate it if you would shorten it to just 'Sanada', maybe. 

Although I do like some freshness in stories, it would be a disgrace of mine to completely disregard anything with cliches. Even if I feel I will dislike a book, I still pick it up and read anywhere from the first chapter in a one-shot to the first novel in a series. 

For example, I picked up three different manga yesterday, 'Jormungand', 'Blackbird' and 'Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan'.

I instantly took a liking to Jormungand, a story about an arms dealer and her mjourneys around the world with a child soldier, a mafia driver and seven ex-soldiers.

Blackbird consisted of various cliches, such as the main character being a helpless heroine, but naturally every yokai in the world wants her. To eat her guts. Because apparently, her guts will give the yokai the power to rule over all other beings. And then a childhood friend, who also happens to be an extremely powerful yokai hell-bent on marrying her. Add in every cliche imaginable and you get volume 1 of a 14 volume long cliche-fest. I absolutely hated it.

Rise of the Yokai Clan has just as many cliches as Blackbird, but it doesn't feel like cliches as much as normal plot. It is quite nice, pleasant in atmosphere and intense in fighting. It explains tactics perfectly and sets about a supernatural world that seems not too out of place when compared to ours.

Now, had I been biased about cliches, I would not have picked up Nura: Rise of the Yokai Clan. I would have taken Jormungand, but it's only 11 volumes compared to Nura's 19 volumes, therefore more than halving the fun.

 

But doesn't that mean you just don't like those particular cliches. And even if that is a case does that necessarily mean that you wont like the rest of the VN.

 

For one thing I know I myself look forward to a medieval fantasy VN without gameplay, I don't dislike gameplay in VNs but storytelling in VNs without gameplay and with gameplay are rather different and the fact that there is barely any medieval fantasy VNs without gameplay and none translated makes it pretty unique experience.

[SanadaShadow]

But doesn't that mean you just don't like those particular cliches. And even if that is a case does that necessarily mean that you wont like the rest of the VN.

For one thing I know I myself look forward to a medieval fantasy VN without gameplay, I don't dislike gameplay in VNs but storytelling in VNs without gameplay and with gameplay are rather different and the fact that there is barely any medieval fantasy VNs without gameplay and none translated makes it pretty unique experience.

 

I have nothing against most cliches, although isolation is a cliche I would very well do without. According to a summary, the Princess and her guard are transported to a different dimension where all that they can find is a forest. No people. Okay, so maybe isolation games do well too, but seriously, I play VNs because it is fun to interact with others and change routes. My favorite genre is a well-executed harem (Utawarerumono, for example, although it would have been better without most of the H-scenes). I do not believe for a second that this is a medieval fantasy, as the bulk of the game has them exploring the forest and trying to survive, not living out their days in a castle (apparently). 

 

Also, personally, I dislike VNs that have no gameplay when it is possible. Such as how, in the first moments of Muv-Luv, you're fighting a giant robot with a giant robot. However, both robots are just drawings, so they react the way all VNs do with drawings: placing them one after the other.

 

One thing I can agree with is that medieval fantasy VNs would be quite awesome. However, this is, I believe, not a medieval fantasy.

[Okami]

I have nothing against most cliches, although isolation is a cliche I would very well do without. According to a summary, the Princess and her guard are transported to a different dimension where all that they can find is a forest. No people. Okay, so maybe isolation games do well too, but seriously, I play VNs because it is fun to interact with others and change routes. My favorite genre is a well-executed harem (Utawarerumono, for example, although it would have been better without most of the H-scenes). I do not believe for a second that this is a medieval fantasy, as the bulk of the game has them exploring the forest and trying to survive, not living out their days in a castle (apparently). 

 

Also, personally, I dislike VNs that have no gameplay when it is possible. Such as how, in the first moments of Muv-Luv, you're fighting a giant robot with a giant robot. However, both robots are just drawings, so they react the way all VNs do with drawings: placing them one after the other.

 

One thing I can agree with is that medieval fantasy VNs would be quite awesome. However, this is, I believe, not a medieval fantasy.

 

Well I guess it doesn't really say that it is a medieval fantasy but princess, royal guard, fleeing from destroyed castle, it sure sounds like one to me. And a rather dark one too, witch is a positive point in my book.

 

Also it doesn't say that it is an different dimension nor will a whole VN took a place in a forest.

[SanadaShadow]

Well I guess it doesn't really say that it is a medieval fantasy but princess, royal guard, fleeing from destroyed castle, it sure sounds like one to me. And a rather dark one too, witch is a positive point in my book.

 

I also believe this is the only point in which anything remotely medieval fantasy-like happens in the game (except maybe flashbacks, but even those are as of yet unconfirmed).

[Zakamutt]

At this point I think it might be best to just wait for the demo w

[SanadaShadow]

Maybe. But I'd rather pass judgement before that happens.

[Okami]

Maybe. But I'd rather pass judgement before that happens.

 

I think that passing a judgement before even trying it out is way too stupid, I myself prefer to finish a story before passing a judgment. Of course you can have a high or low expectations but that's not passing judgement.

[SanadaShadow]

Of course, Okami here decides my joke was a serious statement.

[solidbatman]

On a positive note, the art looks pretty nice. I instantly pre-ordered it anyway, and likely wont read it for another year. 

[SanadaShadow]

In any case, I won't be pre-ordering it. I'll just wait out the bulk and then order it later. I have limited funds. And I would not waste extra on a single game.

[Darklord Rooke]

According to the kickstarter page, the demo will be out on the 4th of July. 

[SanadaShadow]

Tomorrow? So we can download it from... where?

[Darklord Rooke]

Tomorrow? So we can download it from... where?

 

I ..... don't know XD.

 

They'll probably tell us on the kickstarter page once it's available.

[SanadaShadow]

I see. So, what time did they post that notification? I will at least be able to tell when tomorrow comes for them.

[Darklord Rooke]

Heh, apparently Rooke fails at reading . They said it'll be out by the 4th of July weekend, not the 4th of July.....

[SanadaShadow]

Oh. Now I look for an idiot searching for the download.

[Darklord Rooke]

DEMO IS UP! 

 

You can find it here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sekaiproject/fault-milestone-one-directors-cut/posts