Saya No Uta:Extended Thoughts and Questions (SPOILERS)

[SanadaShadow]

Really enjoying the discussion happening here. I feel (and possibly hope) that if this were real life, some of the opinions shared here might differ. We can have very different views when it is "only in theory" and is "just a game/story".

 

Games can spawn some of the most convincing theories.

 

For example, have you known that the Companion Cube from Portal may have people inside it? It seems the game devs hid this intentionally for someone to guess at it.

 

Did you know that Chrono Trigger is a steampunk version of the Bible, with Chrono being Jesus himself? All the assumed grammatical mistakes may actually be intentional then.

 

Did you know Polybius, a cabinet game that suddenly appeared during the golden age of brainwashing experiments, led people to fight each other over who plays next? Unidentified men visit constantly, collect data and leave without speaking to anyone. Players begin to have terrible nightmares, insomnia and memory loss. Some even commit suicide.

The game vanishes months later and is never seen again.

 

Now, that last one is conspiracy theory, but yeah, most of the given points make sense.

[babiker]

Games can spawn some of the most convincing theories.

 

For example, have you known that the Companion Cube from Portal may have people inside it? It seems the game devs hid this intentionally for someone to guess at it.

 

Did you know that Chrono Trigger is a steampunk version of the Bible, with Chrono being Jesus himself? All the assumed grammatical mistakes may actually be intentional then.

 

Did you know Polybius, a cabinet game that suddenly appeared during the golden age of brainwashing experiments, led people to fight each other over who plays next? Unidentified men visit constantly, collect data and leave without speaking to anyone. Players begin to have terrible nightmares, insomnia and memory loss. Some even commit suicide.

The game vanishes months later and is never seen again.

 

Now, that last one is conspiracy theory, but yeah, most of the given points make sense.

Someone has watched way too much game theory.

 

Well anyway, since were doing theories, i think that what the creators were trying to achieve was to put the player in a situation were he had to choose between his normal world, friends and life and his loved one. They were trying to push the term "for the one you love" to its furthest extent. And, like most VN's, it achieved its goal at a frighting level. Out of all the people who played the game, i think (and after reading the posts here) that the majority chose saya over humanity, and probably don't even regret there choice. Some people don't even seem to mind being turned into one of those... things. For a game to achieve that is... jaw dropping to say the least.

 

But, that's just a theory! A game theory! Thanks for watching reading! a game theory reference

[Okami]

Someone has watched way too much game theory.

 

Well anyway, since were doing theories, i think that what the creators were trying to achieve was to put the player in a situation were he had to choose between his normal world, friends and life and his loved one. They were trying to push the term "for the one you love" to its furthest extent. And, like most VN's, it achieved its goal at a frighting level. Out of all the people who played the game, i think (and after reading the posts here) that the majority chose saya over humanity, and probably don't even regret there choice. Some people don't even seem to mind being turned into one of those... things. For a game to achieve that is... jaw dropping to say the least.

 

But, that's just a theory! A game theory! Thanks for watching reading! a game theory reference

 

I think that it is more wired that there are people who are against it. I mean even if Saya is out of the picture and someone offered me to become Saya's race I would still want it. I mean would you really refuse to get a body that is superior both 

physically and psychicy just because it doesn't look nice to your current self? Not to mention that once you turn it won't even look ugly to you any more, but even if it does ugly body is small price to pay for superior body and 3D human bodies look ugly as they are anyway. And when you add Saya on everything above, well yea choosing otherwise is just wired.

[babiker]

I think that it is more wired that there are people who are against it. I mean even if Saya is out of the picture and someone offered me to become Saya's race I would still want it. I mean would you really refuse to get a body that is superior both 

physically and psychicy just because it doesn't look nice to your current self? Not to mention that once you turn it won't even look ugly to you any more, but even if it does ugly body is small price to pay for superior body and 3D human bodies look ugly as they are anyway. And when you add Saya on everything above, well yea choosing otherwise is just wired.

*stops reading half through. spits half his cup of tea all over the screen*

*gets the courage to continue, only to spit out the rest*

 

And now that i have finished my soothing cup, my dear Okami, not everyone in the world cares about becoming a "superior life form". I mean what would you do if you become one? cover your slime over everybody's face? (yes, the saya-creatures left a trail of slime behind them)  Also i must admit i have yet to lose faith in the real world. I'm not that attached to the 2D. And so the only good thing would be Saya, and to me shes not worth the hole world including myself as a sacrifice.

[Okami]

*stops reading half through. spits half his cup of tea all over the screen*

*gets the courage to continue, only to spit out the rest*

 

And now that i have finished my soothing cup, my dear Okami, not everyone in the world cares about becoming a "superior life form". I mean what would you do if you become one? cover your slime over everybody's face? (yes, the saya-creatures left a trail of slime behind them)  Also i must admit i have yet to lose faith in the real world. I'm not that attached to the 2D. And so the only good thing would be Saya, and to me shes not worth the hole world including myself as a sacrifice.

 

And those are reasons why are opinions clash so much.

 

I lost all hope in this 3D world, and I see becoming superior as a point of existence.

[SanadaShadow]

I'm surprised to see all these opinions. The sad truth is, we cannot go to the 2D world yet. I would be more of a bandwagon person myself here, so if others do it, so shall I.

 

You know, time goes on when you're waiting for the song to start, so just dance along to the beat of your heart!

[Xypers]

:|

Edited December 2, 2018 by Xypers

[Kaguya]

to consider yourself human you just need  a working mind capable of feeling emotions and rational thinking. I personally agree with Okami, i don't care about being an ugly slime if i could live indefinitely for example...

i prefer watching how the world will be 100-200-1000 years from now than dying in 60 years or something...and since you are immortal there will be the technology to make you look like a normal human being eventually...and even if you could never make something like that, you can always fall back to VR or some other amazing future tech..

if you gain immortality, 40 years as an ugly slime means fucking nothing, let alone that with all those years being alive and with the intelligence boost from being saya's race, you'll have a deeper understanding of everything. you can make the technology advance yourself, you can discover the mysteries of the universe and eventually yeah, you will also be able to live in the "2d world with cute lolis"

so yeah, its pretty much worth it, you just need to settle in at the beginning, maybe befriending some mad scientist that will protect you and give you whatever you need in exchange of some tests, or a butcher that will give you free food etc etc, this for the first 30-40 years...after that with internet, augmented reality/virtual reality, avatars etc nobody will suspect you are a slime lol

Personally, I think people are way too short sighted when it comes to immortality. Living for more 2000 years? sure, that'd be great. 10000? Maybe, I don't know if the human race even will be around by then. Well, you could always turn more people into others like you, so no problems insofar. 1000000? What the helll would I even be doing by then? 100000000000? The planet most likely won't even exist anymore and your life will be limited to have your body boiling forever in space, unable to die. 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000? Congratulations, you now live in a dark universe where every single start has died and every single black hole has evaporated. Nothing changes anymore, the universe is dead. Forever. And you will continue there. Suffering for all eternity- just add infinite zeros after the last number. Do remember that it's not immortality if you die. I don't think the saya-beings are immortal, since it seems like you can still kill them.

 

 

Now, back on topic- I have no idea if I'd want to become something like that. I mean, I don't give a crap about humanity, but my current life is pretty fun. Changing species just seems unecessary- I'd probably end up messing up something and become a lab rat to some crazy doctor as well. No, thank you. Being human is fine.

I do believe that morality is just a byproduct of culture and chemical reactions happening within you, and feelings are just those chemical reactions as well, so becoming such a being would be fine... If my life weren't awesome already. What's wrong with eating 10 or 10000 people? I'd surely do it if they were tasty. And I had some way to not get caught. <3

[Okami]

Personally, I think people are way too short sighted when it comes to immortality. Living for more 2000 years? sure, that'd be great. 10000? Maybe, I don't know if the human race even will be around by then. Well, you could always turn more people into others like you, so no problems insofar. 1000000? What the helll would I even be doing by then? 100000000000? The planet most likely won't even exist anymore and your life will be limited to have your body boiling forever in space, unable to die. 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000? Congratulations, you now live in a dark universe where every single start has died and every single black hole has evaporated. Nothing changes anymore, the universe is dead. Forever. And you will continue there. Suffering for all eternity- just add infinite zeros after the last number. Do remember that it's not immortality if you die. I don't think the saya-beings are immortal, since it seems like you can still kill them.

 

 

Now, back on topic- I have no idea if I'd want to become something like that. I mean, I don't give a crap about humanity, but my current life is pretty fun. Changing species just seems unecessary- I'd probably end up messing up something and become a lab rat to some crazy doctor as well. No, thank you. Being human is fine.

I do believe that morality is just a byproduct of culture and chemical reactions happening within you, and feelings are just those chemical reactions as well, so becoming such a being would be fine... If my life weren't awesome already. What's wrong with eating 10 or 10000 people? I'd surely do it if they were tasty. And I had some way to not get caught. <3

 

In that time we could probably live in a virtual world without bodies at all in witch case possibilities would be endless. If we get  bored by knowing everything we could simply create a game that last 50-100 years and seal our memories while we play it witch would be like living a life that you created for yourself and when you end it you create another one and then play it and that way in infinity. We would practically be gods at that point. Or something even more amazing, but this is going off topic.

[Xypers]

:|

Edited December 2, 2018 by Xypers

[DawnWolf]

If we're talking immortality I'd only consider it if there was an out clause; ergo if I could die say whenever humanity goes extinct or the sun blows everything up.

 

Because lets face it, regardless of how advanced we get, when the sun says fuck it, we're done. Virtual reality won't exist when you consider our solar system will be dust...

 

I wouldn't choose to be like Saya probably. Think about it; whats the point of becoming a superior being? To rise above others or accomplish a task right? Well, as a slime tentacle monster, I assure you you won't be rising above anyone, as the second you make a public appearance you'll be either killed or dissected. And I really don't know if there is anything that requires you to become what Saya is- less you have a life long dream involving real life tentacle rape.

[Okami]

If we're talking immortality I'd only consider it if there was an out clause; ergo if I could die say whenever humanity goes extinct or the sun blows everything up.

 

Because lets face it, regardless of how advanced we get, when the sun says fuck it, we're done. Virtual reality won't exist when you consider our solar system will be dust...

 

I wouldn't choose to be like Saya probably. Think about it; whats the point of becoming a superior being? To rise above others or accomplish a task right? Well, as a slime tentacle monster, I assure you you won't be rising above anyone, as the second you make a public appearance you'll be either killed or dissected. And I really don't know if there is anything that requires you to become what Saya is- less you have a life long dream involving real life tentacle rape.

 

Your view about how far can technology get as is too narrow, by the time something like sun exploding happens we will be so far that we won't even need it anymore.

 

And if that "Slime tentacle monster" is far more intelligent and physically superior as Saya's race is you would be rising above humanity as it is not appearance that determent superiority, even less when that appearance is just from humans perspective.

 

And your question "whats the point of becoming a superior being" is too stupid for me to answer. If you seriously believe that then by you it would be fine if humans never gotten intelligence and continued to live in caves as there is no point in becoming superior?

[SanadaShadow]

Did you know that many games have succesfully predicted what will happen in the world? If we foillow this line, in just about 300 years, wee will be able to create cyborgs,  will have discovered and made contact with aliens, created a civilization on almost all planets inhabited by aliens, experience a zombie apocalype causing us to destroy our own planet in order to contain the threat and end up in a war with aliens using the higher technology from years of contact with said aliens, and rule the galaxy within, oh, about 10000 years.

[Okami]

...I truly didn't want to join this conversation, but your last post didn't leave much of a choice.

 

Superiority is but a perception. For cavemen, being cavemen was only natural. Had its downsides, but eh. That was their standard. It would be fine if men never got intelligence because there is no universal standard of superiority. There's no external observer, unless, of course, you are willing to admit there's a perfect being, thus absolute standard of superiority, that we could dub God.

 

Which brings us to that same question once more: you become a superior being - superior for whom? If you have human standards and get any other kind of body, superiority may not be exactly your conclusion - even moreso when we count the fact that people have personal standards as well, meaning physical capabilities and intellectual capabilities may not be as important as appearance to some. And you should respect that. You seem very bitter about humanity in general, yet professes such positivist philosophy. That's funny.

 

People who think that their appearance is more important then their intelligence are idiots and there is no reason why should I or anyone else respect idiots.

 

Also true you say that there is no universal standard of superiority I disagree, true It might not always be obvious what is superior, but in some cases it is, including this one.

[SanadaShadow]

Well, one thing to note is that we are all simply assuming that Saya is superior to humans. Do we have any actual proof of this?

[Okami]

Well, one thing to note is that we are all simply assuming that Saya is superior to humans. Do we have any actual proof of this?

 

Yes we do, tons of them actually, scientist that picked Saya up (Can't remember his name) said that she can think faster then a super computer, she also can do  all those surgeries that are impossible for human technology so easily. For physical superiority when Fuminori both an ax Saya said that he can try it out on You as with her new body she won't die that easily and she will heal soon  and after Kouji shoot her so many time she was still alive. All that and many more.

[SanadaShadow]

So, sped-up thinking abilities, superior surgery skill and quick healing.

Let us eliminate those possibilities. For one thing, she thinks fast, breaking the record speed of 33,000 bytes per second. Wow. Amazing, but how exactly is it so useful? She can't even make herself look human with all that brainpower. But this brings up a question. She can think faster than a supercomputer, but does it necessarily mean she's smarter? Nope. You can give yes/no questions in the blink of an eye, but you can't state quantum physics laws without ever learning about them.

Superior surgery is all well and good, but what good is it when not only is everyone who sees Saya runs for the hills with the standard arrow-to-the-knee in tow, but she prefers to eat humans?

When you can survive bullets, that's a serious power trip. But does it really make you superior? Actually, is Saya made of a flammable substance? Because being able to soak up damage means suffering more damage in the end. It takes more hits to kill, but the agony increases with every subsequent cut, burn and wound. And if you're immortal or invincible... Let's just say you're in for some serious hurt.

[Okami]

So, sped-up thinking abilities, superior surgery skill and quick healing.

Let us eliminate those possibilities. For one thing, she thinks fast, breaking the record speed of 33,000 bytes per second. Wow. Amazing, but how exactly is it so useful? She can't even make herself look human with all that brainpower. But this brings up a question. She can think faster than a supercomputer, but does it necessarily mean she's smarter? Nope. You can give yes/no questions in the blink of an eye, but you can't state quantum physics laws without ever learning about them.

Superior surgery is all well and good, but what good is it when not only is everyone who sees Saya runs for the hills with the standard arrow-to-the-knee in tow, but she prefers to eat humans?

When you can survive bullets, that's a serious power trip. But does it really make you superior? Actually, is Saya made of a flammable substance? Because being able to soak up damage means suffering more damage in the end. It takes more hits to kill, but the agony increases with every subsequent cut, burn and wound. And if you're immortal or invincible... Let's just say you're in for some serious hurt.

 

Did you even read a VN?

It's not only thinking faster, she can learn in a meter of days what humans need a whole life for and she can use that knowledge far more then humans can, she can figure out things that humans didn't managed for all their existence in mater of days too. If that's not smarter then what is?

 

Why would she care for what a far inferior race does. Humans eat animals but nobody makes a big deal out of it. And she is even kind enough to make that inferior race into it's own. Not to mention that she eaten only those who had standed in her way to begin with.

 

And you talk like you know a lot but then you should also know that pain is something that you become resistant to with time, the more pain you feel the less you fill it after that. Not to mention that something like shunting off feeling of pain probably wouldn't be a big deal for her race.

 

And yea if she wanted to she could make herself look human just as she made You look like her race she could probably also do the opposite, but why would she want that.

[Xypers]

:|

Edited December 2, 2018 by Xypers

[SanadaShadow]

Did you even read a VN?

It's not only thinking faster, she can learn in a meter of days what humans need a whole life for and she can use that knowledge far more then humans can, she can figure out things that humans didn't managed for all their existence in mater of days too. If that's not smarter then what is?

 

Why would she care for what a far inferior race does. Humans eat animals but nobody makes a big deal out of it. And she is even kind enough to make that inferior race into it's own. Not to mention that she eaten only those who had standed in her way to begin with.

 

And you talk like you know a lot but then you should also know that pain is something that you become resistant to with time, the more pain you feel the less you fill it after that. Not to mention that something like shunting off feeling of pain probably wouldn't be a big deal for her race.

 

And yea if she wanted to she could make herself look human just as she made You look like her race she could probably also do the opposite, but why would she want that.

 

First of all, not trying to be mean, but please improve your grammar, I can barely understand what you're saying.

 

Second, I read the VN a long, LONG time ago. I can't remember most details.

 

And where is the proof that she actually did solve what humans couldn't? It was all just said by a mad doctor who is not present in the game.

Plus, we don't know what the superior race is. I mean, the standard grenade could wipe her out, for all we know. All we've seen is a hatchet and a gun.

Also, you can become more resistant to dull pain, but not sharp pain. Falling over is a dull pain that you recover from and eventually become resistant to. An axe to the side can seriously hurt you. A bullet wound can put you in shock, because it's a sharp pain. And even if Saya can't go into shock, she sure as hell gets hurt badly. She even shows it. Maybe not enough to kill her, but with enough bullets or axes, could it be possible? We don't know because it just doesn't say.

And lastly, doesn't it state somewhere that she can't turn human? Because I know she didn't want to be lonely like she was, but then she would have become human ages ago.

 

you just wait until they build androids or avatars, then you use those to move around so nobody will see you as a blob, what can 50-100 years of waiting mean for an immortal being anyway? (hikikomori con 50 years straight, that's gonna be a new record)

 

So basically surrogates? That wouldn't work, as they are tailored for human beings. Not only would new motion controls be screwy for Saya, but she wouldn't even be able to get into the machine that sends her brain signals to said surrogate.

[Okami]

First of all, not trying to be mean, but please improve your grammar, I can barely understand what you're saying.

 

Second, I read the VN a long, LONG time ago. I can't remember most details.

 

And where is the proof that she actually did solve what humans couldn't? It was all just said by a mad doctor who is not present in the game.

Plus, we don't know what the superior race is. I mean, the standard grenade could wipe her out, for all we know. All we've seen is a hatchet and a gun.

Also, you can become more resistant to dull pain, but not sharp pain. Falling over is a dull pain that you recover from and eventually become resistant to. An axe to the side can seriously hurt you. A bullet wound can put you in shock, because it's a sharp pain. And even if Saya can't go into shock, she sure as hell gets hurt badly. She even shows it. Maybe not enough to kill her, but with enough bullets or axes, could it be possible? We don't know because it just doesn't say.

And lastly, doesn't it state somewhere that she can't turn human? Because I know she didn't want to be lonely like she was, but then she would have become human ages ago.

 

 

So basically surrogates? That wouldn't work, as they are tailored for human beings. Not only would new motion controls be screwy for Saya, but she wouldn't even be able to get into the machine that sends her brain signals to said surrogate.

 

She did things that humans couldn't. It's seems to me that you did forgot most of it but you still continue making statements based only on impression of VN as you remember it.

And she is not superior if grenade can kill her, seriously? I can't even take that statement seriously.

 

Also it is very interesting how only people with strong opposite opinion of my own complain on my grammar.

[SanadaShadow]

She did things that humans couldn't. It's seems to me that you did forgot most of it but you still continue making statements based only on impression of VN as you remember it.

And she is not superior if grenade can kill her, seriously? I can't even take that statement seriously.

 

Also it is very interesting how only people with strong opposite opinion of my own complain on my grammar.

 

I didn't say she wasn't superior, I said that she isn't that all that much. Hell, Freddie Kreuger could put the kibosh on her. However, this game shows a monster on a different perspective. And that is why I liked the VN.

And obviously she did shit humans couldn't. She's not human, for crying out loud!

And honestly, I wouldn't care if I had the opposite opinion or not, bad grammar hurts my eyes. It's kinda like OCD.

[Xypers]

:|

Edited December 2, 2018 by Xypers

[Okami]

Did you even read the VN?

 

That's all Saya ever wanted. You're missing the whole "you've acquired a human soul. I'll give you a name, Saya. You earned it." (or something like that) part.

 

And you're very, very quick to judge. Very quick to judge indeed.

 

Actually she wanted for someone to accept her as she is, that's one of the reasons why she turned a whole planed  (Humans that is) into her race.

 

And I fail to see how did you come to conclusion that I am quick to judge.

[Okami]

Which would make her fail, because Fuminori never gets to see her how she is. He sees her, and nothing but her, as familiar. Which goes back to the appearances topic, that, by the way, was the one to make me think you judge people and their reasonings way too fast.

 

But that would be only if we ware to assume that how humans see her is her true appearance and not the one that Fuminori sees, but the problem with that is that true appearance doesn't really exist as how we see something is decided by our eye nerves witch differes from race to race and Saya's race has knowledge to change that witch is why I said that those appearances are ugly only from human perspective so even our appearance wouldn't really become inferior witch makes choosing not to change into Saya's race even more wired.

 

But yea I still say that even if that wasn't the case appearance is small price to pay for superior intellect and physical superior body and that people who say that appearances is more important then their intellectual and physical capacities are idiots as that is pretty much part of definition of a world "Idiot" . If I said "birds can fly" would you still say that I am quick to judge? I had just stated the obvious.