Sekai Project Official Grisaia Translation?

[Darklord Rooke]

I feel like the goal will be reached, but its going to be nasty with how VN fans are about their porn. 

 

True... unfortunately

[Decay]

Well, that's pretty bad news. Koestl seems to be pretty vocally displeased about this. As of now, he's saying that the 18+ version will be out one month later.

[Kosakyun]

Well I'll be damned.

I was even looking forward to it.

As long as everything gets released, everyone wins, right?

[kyrt]

It's not happening. They've shot themselves. I'm probably not doing much to help matters since I fully support disbanding any attempt at the all ages version. I can't blame anyone. Now if the 18+ version had a guarantee of being created after the initial and if it were actually available for free for backers then I'd be more inclined to support it. However one must ask themselves why did decide against it? Do they have no intent to ever release the 18+ version? Is this merely a cash grab to get people to buy both the all ages and adult version of the game? Is this the result of the Clannad Kickstarter and do Frontwing believe themselves capable of going toe to toe with Clannad in the popularity in the West department? 

 

Honestly I see this as nothing but bad news. I honestly don't see them making their already ridiculous goal now more than ever since they just alienated a third of the fan base. 

 

I'm highly doubtful I'm going to support it anymore...and if I do end up supporting it then it will be for the absolute minimum amount now. I'm unhappy with how things have turned out. I'm hoping that if the first one fails then Frontwing will realize that they made a mistake...and if that doesn't happen then guess that's that. I'm rather unhappy with the poor business sense happening and find it a bit unethical to use kickstarter as a means to get fans to pay twice for something they should only have to pay once. It doesn't help that this incident is pointing out all the problems I have with kickstarter as well how Frontwing plans to do business. 

 

I also do not believe any of this is sekai project's fault so I have no issue with them and can only imagine the abject horror on their face when Frontwing got back to them with this announcement. I also am under no delusions when I say that Clannad is why Frontwing changed their tune. They realized thanks to the clannad kickstarter that people would pay for an all-ages visual novel and that they could sell the adult version on the side for profit if they wished later on...assuming they have any real intent to do so. Unfortunately this is nothing but bad news as they are nowhere near the level of popularity as Clannad (most of the people willing to support it will take offense to no 18+ content...since most of the current fans have already played it with the H-content). This will cause people supporting this to lessen and frontwing will see the low interest and think that no one would want the 18+ portion and thus not release it.

 

Honestly this is horrible news.

[kyrt]

The only good bit of information to come out of this is that the trilogy for the all ages version has been lowered to 80 dollars for the trilogy digital or 120 for the trilogy physical...which means that technically if you were planning to spend 300 dollars for the 18+ version then if they still release the 18+ version later for the same cost as the all ages version then you've actually be spending about the same amount but have 2 copies of each game. I just don't see 18+ coming now and find it very unlikely that the all ages version will get supported in response. I am not giving up hope mind you I'm just very cynical at the moment. Currently I have no intent to do anything but honestly I trust koestl and if he says the adult version is planned a month or so after then I might be willing to still support this...if nothing else I imagine he or sekai project would be willing to release a patch of some sort. I'll wait and see if they make no mention of the 18+ version in the kickstarter then I'm done for the moment.

 

But yeah the blatant cash grab is definitely not a good sign and it will affect the amount of people willing to support. Guess we'll have to wait and see. If this is the result of kickstarting visual novels then I'm done. Clannad will have been the last visual novel I back via kickstarter. I've never really liked this way of doing things to begin with because it leaves a lot of potential bullshit that can happen (not finishing, poor translations, cut content, etc...) but also because these companies are not spending any of their own money on this venture. This to me tells me outright they have absolutely no interest in our market. I really hope I'm wrong and hope Frontwing comes to its senses...but I find this unlikely.. Definitely a stupid stupid rule...poor Sekai Project this is going to hurt their credibility probably the most.

 

Just posted by Sekai on the forums:

"Hey everyone, I know some are disappointed with the situation, trust me there's quite a few things that had to be resolved:

In the industry (I'm referring to Japan in this case), all-ages and 
18+ versions of the same game are considered COMPLETELY different 
products and thus why they are usually promoted separately. In this 
case, they want that to be very clear on the separation of the title's 
content.

There's also that pesky cause in Kickstarter AUP that does not allow adult content.

I don't have any further information besides what has been said by koestl and what I just posted."

So it seems part of this has to do with KS's clause on pornography (other games have done so in the past but I'm pretty sure the emphasis wasn't overly on that there would be such. As for the separate product thing...that's complete bullshit. If the game was in production and they only had one version first then that could understand but having all the content and still releasing it differently is nothing more than a cash grab. Hopefully Frontwing and Sekai Project will address the issue of the 18+ version and also realize that people who want the 18+ version have no interest in backing the all ages version since it doesn't get them the version of the game they want. Hopefully this information will get to us ridiculously quick as already people are beginning to talk in disgust with this decision...

[BookwormOtaku]

While I still plan to support the kickstarter and appreciate koestl and SP for their honesty, I'll let Jean Claude van Damme say what I think of Frontwing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okg7msfrtfk

[solidbatman]

Kickstarter does not allow for pornographic material to be fund raised for, and you can only use funds for the product you are working on. So if Frontwing says the 18+ is a separate version (which makes complete sense), then the funds cannot be used to release the 18+ version. The only way I see this working is if the two have an under the table agreement to allow funds to be used for it, but then if Kickstarter comes knocking, Sekai could be in violation of the ToS by using funds for pornographic material. 

Looking at it like that, this may just be the limitations of Kickstarter ruining it for Sekai Project. 

 

Herkz was on reddit discussing the content that is cut from the all ages version, and from what it appears, the content cutting might not be as smooth as we had hoped and more than just h scenes might be missing. If herkz is being accurate about it (someone else posted untranslated screenshots of some scenes), then this might not do well at all. 

[Rose]

This is probably more disheartening to SP than to us, tbh. Can't imagine how hard that hit them. Anyway, even if it's not the complete package, I will still back it.

 

I was reading reddit thread about this and I found this comment to share perfectly how I see things. Both of them were made by LeafCascade, so credits to him for writing this.

 

At first I was about to get really mad at you guys for going "MUH PORN", but I can see the problem. It's bothering me too now. I personally don't give two shits about losing the h-content, but if they're going to cut out other dialogue/scenes, I can't help but to feel that we will be missing out on things, especially in Meikyuu and Rakuen.

But then again:

• As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, I have no doubts about that there'll be patches to restore the cut out content. Someone will find a way. And even if they don't, well... regardless, the 18+ versions will be released anyway, it just won't be through the Kickstarter (is how I've understood it), but only if the Kickstarter is successful.

• While this will have an impact on the magnitude of the Kickstarter's success, this is after all Grisaia. I really don't see 160k being difficult to achieve, especially not with how the Clannad KS is going.

All in all: if you want the sequels in English, you're going to have to contribute. If you feel the censorship will ruin the VNs for you, to the point where you'd rather have nothing at all - go ahead, don't contribute, but make sure you know what you're doing by taking this stance; I imagine the sequels won't be translated for many years, if ever, even, if this KS does not succeed.

As western VN fans I don't feel like we can get caught up on things like this, we don't have the luxury to. We either move forward or we won't be getting anywhere.

 

A couple of months ago, I had given up on playing the sequels completely, and I simply feel very lucky to be given the chance to get them translated. It seems people are forgetting what we'd be stuck with if it weren't for SP.

As far as I can tell, pornographic material isn't even allowed to be Kickstarted per their policies, so it really isn't that huge of a surprise - I did expect the 18+ version to be downloadable off-site or something, though. I think part of the problem lies here. As for Japanese companies thinking "we" only want all-ages content, who knows. But it seems we'll have to change the method of funding if we want to change direction.

Anyway, this is just how I feel right now, and I'm sure as soon as new information comes to light I'll change my opinion accordingly.

EDIT: I don't have any solutions to this, or any understanding of what SP can do regarding negotiations etc. I just don't want to ruin this chance we've been given by making a nuisance of ourselves to Frontwing over 18+ material. Damaging relationships is the last thing we'll want to do.

[Wahfuu]

This is mostly simply because of how all ages/18+ is looked at in Japan. They are totally seperate products, so I guess Frontwing wants to make it absolutely clear as such.

as Koestl said https://twitter.com/koestl/status/541856002950582272 here, 1 month release delays compared to all-ages, but who knows, it's all still pretty vague.

Now, I don't really care that much since I was probably going to get the all-ages stuff anyways (as long as the stuff in Angelic Howl remained uncensored, anyway, because that's kind of important) but the western fanbase does have this obsession with porn. I immagine koestl/sekai must be pretty frustrated at this aswell.

To add: The whole "no porn" rule applies to live-action and photo's. Drawn/comic seems to be fine.

[sanahtlig]

Frontwing is demanding 18+ versions of Grisaia be pushed back and treated as "separate products" not covered by the Kickstarter.

https://twitter.com/koestl/status/541843642944872450 

 

I was planning to fund the Grisaia Kickstarter, in large part because I supported the use of Kickstarter to fund eroge translation.  At this point, I'm probably not going to fund it, pending details of the 18+ release.

 

I need the following to be comfortable supporting this Kickstarter:

1) A guarantee that an 18+ version will be released within a reasonable (pre-determined) time frame.

2) The exact details on the 18+ release, how and where it'll be available, and for what price (for Kickstarter supporters vs. everyone else)

 

That's the minimum I'll accept.  In addition, I need reasonable assurance that my dollar vote is going to the right place: funding eroge translation.  I don't like the idea that my dollars would nominally be funding a product I don't want, and that's why this Kickstarter will be a tough sell to me no matter what the terms end up being.  I'm not a huge fan of Grisaia, so they'll have to demonstrate that supporting this project sets (correct) precedent for getting the type of games I want.

[kyrt]

according to koetsl: "I'm confident that many of the jp vita script edits in these scenes are not necessary to preserve an "M" rating in the US".

 

- say goodbye to sexual anything in the visual novel...half the jokes will probably be gone now if what koetsl sees is what they go with.

 

This is looking like If My Heart Has Wings problem all over again. The only difference is we have a glimmer of a chance at getting the proper version if the kickstarter succeeds. Also reading the terms of service on the kickstarter they can bypass the entire H-content issue by simply having a patch available via the website for free and say all backers get a chance for an extra version after the initial release that will return it to its original state. As long as they don't mention the content but also make it impossible for people to not pick up maybe they have a chance?. I believe the only thing in kickstarter's term of service is porn essentially cannot be displayed on its pages...there have been plenty of games funded by kickstarter that have added H-content. The upcoming huniepop and the visual novel sunrider are just two examples. If the issue is kickstarter they could always do Indiegogo (if this is the right website) which allows adult content. I'll be honest I highly doubt kickstarter is the only issue.

 

It seems the all ages people now have something to worry about to and it's not just the 18+ or Riot crowd. This is really turning into a clusterfuck of bad decisions...oddly enough I have no ill will whatsoever towards Sekai Project and can only imagine how painful it must have been for both koestl and the sekai project crew to hear this possible ultimatum from Frontwing or hell Kickstarter if they are behind this (why someone hasn't made something like Kickstarter that allows adult content I'll never know). I definitely know Koetsl is probably unhappy as hell right now...maybe I'll get the high profile raising sim or Ef or something instead.

 

I'm now really worried for any future attempts at visual novels via crowd-funding services and find it unlikely that I'll back them in the future so as not to risk another debacle that this has potential to turn into...let's hope they see reason/commitment/confirmation for the actual kickstarter/funding thing.

[interested translator]

I'm still going to support the Kickstarter, since I was going to buy both versions (the Vita version has extra CG not in the 18+ version.) In the best case, I'll end up with vouchers for the 18+ version as well.

[interested translator]

according to koetsl: "I'm confident that many of the jp vita script edits in these scenes are not necessary to preserve an "M" rating in the US".

 

- say goodbye to sexual anything in the visual novel...half the jokes will probably be gone now if what koetsl sees is what they go with.

 

This is looking like If My Heart Has Wings problem all over again.

 

You're going overboard. This is nothing like IMHHW. There's still sexual stuff in the Vita version. Things like http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201307230047/image/8/

[kyrt]

Honestly I would love to support the kickstarter but if they plan to edit the All-Ages version as well my code prevents me from supporting it in any way. I have strict rules against censorship of text and this would fall under that. If they do not edit the all-ages script then I'll probably support them as well (minimum money necessary for all 3 games) and then hope they give vouchers or something for the 18+ version down the line. With the new price range for stuff it's actually comes out to about half the amount I was willing to back in order to get the all ages and 18+ version...so while I am currently not going to back it with the knowledge of an edited script (they probably took out sexual humor and the like) if they change their mind on that and "promise" to release 18+ later then I'll probably back it. 

 

- interested translator: Did you read the quote from koetsl? he says many scrip edits in the jp vita scenes that do not seem necessary to preserve an M rating in the US...they are cutting dialogue and the only dialogue I can see getting censored is of a sexual nature. So this has plenty of chance to go the same way as IMHHW based on that evidence presented by koetsl. Admittedly I'm making an educated guess based on what I think is most likely to be cut to retain an M rating but there it is. I just looked at the picture and that will probably be cut too if dialogue is being cut then images definitely will be...or she'll be wearing a towel or swim suit or something.

[Decay]

The all-ages script was already modified. In the Japanese Vita version, they made some alterations to Angelic Howl, for example:

the cannibalism was removed

 

Koestl has said that he will be reverting all "unnecessary" script changes. They cannot restore any scenes that were outright cut, but any script changes will probably be reverted back to how they were in the 18+ version. Basically, they think that outside of the h-scenes, nothing in the 18+ version would have prevented an M rating by the ESRB and that's what they're shooting for.

[interested translator]

Cool. I trust Sekai Project will do their best.

[kyrt]

according to sekai project:

 

"Hi. We're sorry about the delay / separation of the 18+ versions, and we do understand why people would be upset.

The 18+ games will come out if the trilogy is funded, and we're looking into options to provide some sort of credit for KS backers. Ideally, you will be able to back the trilogy on Kickstarter and then receive a discounted or free copy of the 18+ games when they're released. I can't make any promises about that, but it's something we want to do, and we will try to clarify prior to launching the kickstarter.

Believe me, we have tried working around this issue, but the original rights-holders expressed a strong desire to maintain clear "separation" between the 18+ and M-rated products.

With regards to "censorship," we have some leeway as localizers and may revert some textual changes made to the vita version where possible. And please keep in mind that a completely uncut 18+ edition will eventually be available, as long as the Kickstarter succeeds."

 

so basically confirmation that Frontwing wishes to try for a cash grab (still think clannad's success is the cause of this). I will keep an eye on this but I honestly don't expect it to succeed now. I'll put minimum down for all 3 games but no more than that...need to save money if 18+ is going to cost money...I can just give away the all ages version (and if it succeeds I do intend to play and compare both games eventually so that might be interesting. Shame. Oh well time will tell.

[Satsuki]

Doesnt matter to me, don't plan on buying the 18+ ver anyway.

[Lambda]

according to koetsl: "I'm confident that many of the jp vita script edits in these scenes are not necessary to preserve an "M" rating in the US".

 

- say goodbye to sexual anything in the visual novel...half the jokes will probably be gone now if what koetsl sees is what they go with.

??? Koestl's tweet reads the opposite way to me... He's basically saying "we can add more of the 18+ script and keep an M rating because the JP Vita version's script is tame", isn't he....?

 

I was only planning on buying all-ages, but the physical copies are only 18+ versions, right? That means only digital........... Sighhhh. Hoping for better news on that front... Although I'm not sad about any "censorship" this means considering the original author probably wrote the added parts.... This is the Frontwing-approved Frontwing-made all-ages version, after all.... Although I have no idea if the Fujisaki wrote the all-ages Fujisaki bits, etc., I'm at least confident it won't be If My Heart Had Wings.

[Dizzyworld2]

??? Koestl's tweet reads the opposite way to me... He's basically saying "we can add more of the 18+ script and keep an M rating because the JP Vita version's script is tame", isn't it....?

 

I was only planning on buying all-ages, but the physical copies are only 18+ versions, right? That means only digital........... Sighhhh. Hoping for better news on that front... Although I'm not sad about any "censorship" this means considering the original author probably wrote the added parts.... This is the Frontwing-approved Frontwing-made all-ages version, after all.... Although I have no idea if the Fujisaki wrote the all-ages Fujisaki bits, etc., I'm at least confident it won't be If My Heart Had Wings.

 

Our main releases (including physical copies) will be localized PC ports of the Vita games - including new scenes and CGs from both Akio Watanabe and Fumio.

So no, there will be physical all-ages. Also @ the tweet, that how I'm interpreting it too...

[Lambda]

Our main releases (including physical copies) will be localized PC ports of the Vita games - including new scenes and CGs from both Akio Watanabe and Fumio.

So no, there will be physical all-ages. Also @ the tweet, that how I'm interpreting it too...

You made my day! There's too much info coming at once to search for it all...! All-ages versions of porn games, here I come (hoping from the bottom of my heart they still get funded, of course).

[nohman]

Also reading the terms of service on the kickstarter they can bypass the entire H-content issue by simply having a patch available via the website for free and say all backers get a chance for an extra version after the initial release that will return it to its original state. 

 

This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if that is even an option. Maybe having a patch (instead of a separate 18+ product all together) would be against whatever terms they have with Frontwing regarding the licensing?

[sanahtlig]

(why someone hasn't made something like Kickstarter that allows adult content I'll never know)

Alternatives exist, but Kickstarter adopted this policy for a good reason.  Payment processing for porn is significantly more expensive.  By not involving themselves in porn, Kickstarter is able to provide a crowdfunding service that takes a relatively low cut.  The alternative crowdfunding services for adult materials take a much larger cut (e.g., 30% for Offbeatr vs. 5% for Kickstarter), and thus aren't attractive to developers and publishers, especially for larger projects where the cut becomes substantial.

 

 

Adult products (like videos, books, etc...) are considered high risk due to a history of higher cases of fraud and chargebacks. Because of this the few companies who do process for adult companies charge often 2 to 3 times more than non-adult payment companies.

http://wiki.offbeatr.com/Fees_and_Costs

[RinXD]

This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if that is even an option. Maybe having a patch (instead of a separate 18+ product all together) would be against whatever terms they have with Frontwing regarding the licensing?

The only problem with that would be that I dont think steam would be ok with it considering they're rather picky about that kinda stuff especially if its supposed to be all ages

[RinXD]

Honestly I wouldnt think it would cost them much more if anything to make both versions considering the lines would be near similiar just one is devoid of adult content so I dont really see how this would be a issue for them