Clephas Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Because so many VNs basically are about the characters chasing their dreams and deciding their futures, you would think that there would be a more complete ending on most VNs... however, if anything the reverse is the case. Almost all endings are truncated pieces of crap, where at most a few months or a year later is projected, and the future is still undetermined, even after slogging through all the drama of the main story, leaving the reader with a vague feeling of dissatisfaction, no matter how good the main VN was. I absolutely loathe this aspect of VNs. I want real after-story on my epilogues/endings. I want closure. I want a sense of how they turned out long after things settled down. I want to know what two kids who had a rough romantic beginning are like after they were married. I want to know whether a couple that escaped the horrifying events on an island managed to find happiness. It goes on and on, but that is my essential complaint. Just what is so hard about giving such a proper sense of closure to a story? It isn't like sequels make sense in most cases, and fandiscs are just excuses for extra h-scenes and occasionally an extra heroine route. Ones like Noble Works, that leave you feeling like you've experienced everything you can with the heroines, or ones like the main heroine's ending in Hikoukigumo no Mukougawa shouldn't be in the minority... they should be the majority! Stand up, VN-fans, squeal meaningless hairless monkey-talk at the Japanese (one true language)-speaking public on the other side of the water! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getsuya Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 It's even funnier (in the painful sense) when you're playing the all-ages version. Eustia had a bunch of epilogue side-stories for all the girls, but they were all excuses to set up H-scenes with the girls in different outfits. Minus the H-scenes (it being the all-ages version) they were incredibly pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Isn't that the same in a ton of movies and such as well? The kind of "we're not sure whether or not we will make a sequel for this so better just leave it this way". Personally, I have no problem with it, or rather, I never have this kind of feeling, so I don't care, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I usually loathe this as well, it feels so cheap and unsatisfactory. But i've grown used to it, sadly. Very few stories i've seen actually show us meaningful time progression after whatever main plot there is. Though I will say i prefer a crappy vague epilogue over a loose ending where you'll never know what happens. Is it cheap? Indeed, but it's still better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think many people enjoy not having a real closure to the story, they can imagine what will happen with the characters and that's part of the fun... and it's far easier to write an open ending because you can't screw things up this way, the open interpretation is better than having something awful that will turn out to be canon to the story because it is there and you can erase anymore... for example muv luv alt. And last they can keep milking the franchise by doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 >You can't screw things up that way You should always write a story with a conclusion you like, not a conclusion for other people to like. Of course most of the VN industry is ran in the opposite way, but still, if you have free reign over your story, you should give it the ending you want, not an ending you think is the best for your fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well but you said it, that's not how this industry works, they write to please the fans most of the time, same thing by adding ero-scenes when they don't add absolute nothing to the plot, again fan services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Isn't this thread a rant against such trends though? Well in the end i know the big corporations just want to make money so i don't expect anything to change, but i'll still say that an author should always have free reign over the conclusion of their stories, and if they want to leave it vague, so be it, and if they don't, so be it, but sadly most people are just hired by corporations to create a product to feed the masses. Well it's not like i'm not guilty, i eat moeges like these for breakfast Teeku but once in a while a nice conclusive story wouldn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I agree with you and with Clephas and I'm not saying that I like the way things are in this industry but they are what they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 And this is why I hate the 1st Grisaia game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalor Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I agree, it really is bullshit for this to happen so often in the VN medium. I can understand (though I still hate it) with how often this happens to anime, since usually the manga the anime is based on is still ongoing. (And usually the reason the manga is ongoing is to milk it for as long as possible). But VN's are like books. When they end, they tend to be done for good. I feel like this is a problem integral to Otaku media. To dig a bit bigger though, I think this happens for a similar reason that there are so many faceless protagonists. Faceless protagonists exist to allow the reader to insert themselves into the relationship with the female of choice in their VN. By not giving the main protag a personality, it makes it easier for the reader to personally feel involved with the girl, instead of being a voyeur into her relationship with the main character. Likewise, having a satisfying ending (particularly if it involves them getting married) would require for the main protagonist to actually have a personality. Which we can't allow, since then he wouldn't be a self-insert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Permagate Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ones like Noble Works, that leave you feeling like you've experienced everything you can with the heroines, or ones like the main heroine's ending in Hikoukigumo no Mukougawa shouldn't be in the minority... they should be the majority! Are you talking about Eiri route? Cause the after-story is my most favorite scene in the game. In that case, I fully agree with you! I like reading the relationship part and short snippets of life after graduating from highschool. Now, why it is rare, I think that's because it is usually done to solicit heartwarming from the readers. I think it's hard to write it without resorting back to romcom. It's kinda like writing a slice-of-life without comedy. Also, now I'm interested in reading Noble Works, since you mentioned it in this thread. And this is why I hate the 1st Grisaia game. Hmm, Amane route has a closure. Not the plot-reveal closure kind, but the life-after-highschool closure kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think I'm missing something, but from what I understand you are asking for more short (like 5min or so) after stories that are story based. I don't know, perhaps my VN experience is vastly different from the majority of people posting on this topic (since I've been pretty happy with the majority of VN endings), but this just kinda feels greedy. I mean there is really only two ways you can go with this. Route A, everything goes as plan and our characters live happily ever after.... which is just boring ,the foundation of all storytelling is conflict. Route B, everything dosn't go well for our heros but they make do with their lot in life (such as settling for a non-dream job or getting a divorce).... which is just depressing. I suppose there is Route C, our MC gets hit by a random car and dies the next day. In summary, I just find no need to add "And they lived happily ever after" before the credits of every VN and if the fans really want it they can make a fanfiction or doujinshi about it. P.S. THE TRUTH IS THAT VN WRITERS CAN'T WRITE ABOUT WHEN THE MAIN CHARACTERS ARE OLDER CAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE IN HIGHSCHOOL AND NO ONE IN JAPANS KNOWS HOW TO WRITE ABOUT MAIN CHARACTERS THAT ARE NOT IN HIGHSCHOOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I remember a decent amount of people actually complained about Grisaia Amane's Good End for giving too much of an epilogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I agree, it really is bullshit for this to happen so often in the VN medium. I can understand (though I still hate it) with how often this happens to anime, since usually the manga the anime is based on is still ongoing. (And usually the reason the manga is ongoing is to milk it for as long as possible).As an avid manga reader i can confirm this trend isn't any different in the medium, it's just that manga makes it last for waaaay longer. The good thing about manga is that you can actually get stories about characters that aren't in highschool at the very least, but overall manga endings can be incredibly non satisfactory as well *cough* Tokyo Ghoul *cough*. Although i will say there's manga that don't try to pull off the epilogue stunt, they just solve the main conflict and walk away into the sunset. I guess in the end most people just feel more involved when they get to imagine what happens, plus the author probably doesn't want to give it much thought, plus money. Mostly money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 As an avid manga reader i can confirm this trend isn't any different in the medium, it's just that manga makes it last for waaaay longer. The good thing about manga is that you can actually get stories about characters that aren't in highschool at the very least, but overall manga endings can be incredibly non satisfactory as well *cough* Tokyo Ghoul *cough*. Although i will say there's manga that don't try to pull off the epilogue stunt, they just solve the main conflict and walk away into the sunset. I guess in the end most people just feel more involved when they get to imagine what happens, plus the author probably doesn't want to give it much thought, plus money. Mostly money. Don't even talk about manga that last way too long...berserk has been going on like for 27 years and it is far from ending u.u I'm sure the writer (kentaro Miura) is going to die before he manage to finish the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ideally, an after-story should be more than a five-minute excuse for an h-scene or a meaningless CG with 'fin' written on it... it should be an actual 'story of what happened after things settled down' or a report of 'what they were like later, as a result of the events in the main story'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotTrax Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Circus gonna save us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Ideally, an after-story should be more than a five-minute excuse for an h-scene or a meaningless CG with 'fin' written on it... it should be an actual 'story of what happened after things settled down' or a report of 'what they were like later, as a result of the events in the main story'. So, you simply just want more, or an "Anchorman" style epilogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 No. (though I have never seen the Anchorman, so meh) I don't 'just want more', I want an after story that leaves me with a sense of completeness when it comes to the VN in question. Open-ending and vague cop-outs make me want to break things. Especially since almost no VNs have true sequels and fandiscs almost never deliver on the promise of tying up loose ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 fandiscs more like ero-discs they waste so much money into those I kinda even hate them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havoc Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I remember a decent amount of people actually complained about Grisaia Amane's Good End for giving too much of an epilogue I was one of those, it was a good epiloge until it whent past the makina going to germany part. It should have ended there, not go on until thier deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'll never understand why people who complain about having to read play/read VNs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 No. (though I have never seen the Anchorman, so meh) I don't 'just want more', I want an after story that leaves me with a sense of completeness when it comes to the VN in question. Open-ending and vague cop-outs make me want to break things. Especially since almost no VNs have true sequels and fandiscs almost never deliver on the promise of tying up loose ends. Maybe it's just that I don't know Japanese so my VN experience is much smaller compared to yours, but I've never felt that a VN left any major loose ends that required any further explaination. I just can't seem to grasp what everyone is soo dissatisfied with and this isn't me trying to be an ass hole (shockingly enough) I'm genuinely confused. I havn't been this baffled since I learned that SAO was a big hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Are you talking about Eiri route? Cause the after-story is my most favorite scene in the game. In that case, I fully agree with you! I like reading the relationship part and short snippets of life after graduating from highschool. Now, why it is rare, I think that's because it is usually done to solicit heartwarming from the readers. I think it's hard to write it without resorting back to romcom. It's kinda like writing a slice-of-life without comedy. Also, now I'm interested in reading Noble Works, since you mentioned it in this thread. Hmm, Amane route has a closure. Not the plot-reveal closure kind, but the life-after-highschool closure kind. True, but it means nothing in the end since the series ending is a harem and none of the endings mean anything in the big picture. In fact, Michiru is the girl who ends up with Yuji's kid at the end of the series, with all of the girls being supportive of the accidental pregnancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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