Lewycool Posted May 2, 2015 Author Posted May 2, 2015 Tay has been hard at work behind the scenes. If things pan out, Fuwanovel is in for some nice surprises. The surprises will only appear when Fuwa is dead at this rate. This thread was to alert people to: 1. How inactive the admin/LC/mods are when it comes to projects for Fuwa and when it comes to moderation, they're a bit more lenient to approve then to disapprove when the hype is high. Oh and how small the admin team is and why it needs to be bigger 2 Is about how the community is acting and how it's less about VN and more about Trash. (But this is only the secondary point) I feel I have succeeded with this.
Heizei_koukousei Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 To be clear, the only admin of the site is Tay. Nayleen has admin status because he needs full access to the admin panel and Checkmate is still admin because... idk probably as a honorary position considering him being our former host but he's never been involved with the administration of fuwanovel. I'm not sure what you guys are waiting for besides the front side (which is indeed going slowly but we can't do much about that). Moon is running and it's fairly successful, the blogs feature is a thing that keeps being used, including the highlight team, the blog is running although not at full capacity, the social media are working... and our PR is expanding behind the scenes and there could indeed be some announcements soon regarding that. The problem is that Tay needs to remain the one who makes the decisions, but not be the one who carries out the decisions. This has been in effect for a long time, to a certain extent with the moderators on Fuwanovel. I don't see how people can really complain about the front site. Since the torrents have been taken down, the format that we in place isn't really useful anymore. Its being worked on, not fucking every hour of every day, but it is being worked on. We used to have a structure when aaeru was here and when she left.. It just seemed to of slipped away So as you can see, there is a structure in place. But with all the changes that have been happening since the start of the year you can't really expect everything to go according to plan every time. So you say there are problems with the LC. That's not really an issue since we can always, you know, change it. The surprises will only appear when Fuwa is dead at this rate. I think you need to be more optimistic. Maybe you should take a break from Fuwanovel, rather than downing on how Fuwanovel is going to die. In fact, Fuwanovel is going nowhere but up. Despite slow changes, there has been a lot of recognition on other sites, and that has brought the Fuwanovel name out from the shadows, in my eyes that's progress enough.
Eclipsed Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 1. How inactive the admin/LC/mods are when it comes to projects for Fuwa and when it comes to moderation, they're a bit more lenient to approve then to disapprove when the hype is high. Oh and how small the admin team is and why it needs to be bigger LC projects aside, see this post of Tay's. http://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/9803-community-updates-42515-including-new-theme/?p=271491 TL;DR things are going on behind the scenes on Tay's end, and as Down said, other than the Front Site update there's not really much to complain about regarding Fuwa's 'inactivity'. It's one of those things where people are like 'Rawr, why aren't things happening?!@' but like, what do you want to happen?
Lewycool Posted May 2, 2015 Author Posted May 2, 2015 The problem is that Tay needs to remain the one who makes the decisions, but not be the one who carries out the decisions. This has been in effect for a long time, to a certain extent with the moderators on Fuwanovel. I don't see how people can really complain about the front site. Since the torrents have been taken down, the format that we in place isn't really useful anymore. Its being worked on, not fucking every hour of every day, but it is being worked on. So as you can see, there is a structure in place. But with all the changes that have been happening since the start of the year you can't really expect everything to go according to plan every time. So you say there are problems with the LC. That's not really an issue since we can always, you know, change it. I think you need to be more optimistic. Maybe you should take a break from Fuwanovel, rather than downing on how Fuwanovel is going to die. In fact, Fuwanovel is going nowhere but up. Despite slow changes, there has been a lot of recognition on other sites, and that has brought the Fuwanovel name out from the shadows, in my eyes that's progress enough. The system got dismantled ages ago the whole system is a wreck. To be fair I haven't seen anything that is important that has taken place this year. Sure we got the blog shouting out Threads people should look at but it's nothing important. The main site was important because it was going to have an overhaul of features (mentors for VN Newcomers for example) because we disabled the use of torrents but that apart of the LC seems to of burned out and some people lost interest. It's most likely the same on other LC threads, it's been said here. "Nothing is happening there" And nothing be optimistic about it if Tay burns himself out because he's handling the work all on his own. Plus he's also busy with his own needs which is why we need an expanded admin group.
LiquidShu Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 Read every post so far and it seems multiple people are referring to events that happened today. Would it be by any chance Ren's video earlier? Seeing as he made an apology thread I am assuming it is that. Anyways, I have been here for almost a year now and I would say I joined right before it boomed. My opinion doesn't have any authority behind it, but with the increase of new members more "shit" topics are being created, yes? Some members seem to have read numerous vn's and are more knowledgeable about them and the industry, but others, well, aren't. If I remember there was some sort of peer program where experienced individuals would teach less experienced ones, but I haven't seen anything about that recently. For me, I don't really post too much in the visual novel forums since I really don't know anything about how the industry works, what companies do what, what artists do what, and what makes a visual novel good when being looked at from a more critical perspective. I read them for fun and I would definitely enjoy learning more about all of the inner workings surrounding them. A few barriers are hardish to overcome though: 1) Learning Japanese. Now I really want to do this and plan to take classes over the summer to do so, but not everyone will do this thus it will be harder to really learn anything when it's all written in Japanese. and 2) It doesn't seem like old members are really engaging with the new ones and vice versa to try to help build knowledge and understanding between them. These are just my two cents on what's going on right now (not really sure if anything is even really going on). Sorry if this post seems ignorant, that would be because it is on my part.
Lewycool Posted May 2, 2015 Author Posted May 2, 2015 Read every post so far and it seems multiple people are referring to events that happened today. Would it be by any chance Ren's video earlier? Seeing as he made an apology thread I am assuming it is that. Didn't make this thread about him.
Heizei_koukousei Posted May 2, 2015 Posted May 2, 2015 Read every post so far and it seems multiple people are referring to events that happened toIt doesn't seem like old members are really engaging with the new ones and vice versa to try to help build knowledge and understanding between them. I feel like new members are truly daunted by the fact that we have some serious VN lords around. It may make people feel like they can't measure up, which causes a divide between the experienced members and the new members. But that's just my speculation
Eclipsed Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 As one of the newer members (account made in Sep '14 yo!) I think I did a decent job meshing in with both older and newer members alike.not really
Down Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 To be fair I haven't seen anything that is important that has taken place this year. Lewy plz. The torrents going down and everything that went with it was something like three months ago. If that's not important I don't know what is. A bunch of minor and less minor things have also taken place since then. Third time I mention Moon being a pretty significant thing. The facebook wasn't in a good shape either a few months ago, now it's running smoothly. We got a new home for fuwareviews with plenty of feeds to external reviewers and user-submitted reviews. Seriously, I don't know anymore why you're ringing a bell here. The front site is literally the only thing that's being bottlenecked right now (aside from the slowness of the reviews but eh)
LiquidShu Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Didn't make this thread about him. I understand that I just saw a lot of people mentioning today being especially bad and was curious. I shouldn't have included that, my bad.
solidbatman Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 The facebook wasn't in a good shape either a few months ago, now it's running smoothly. We got a new home for fuwareviews with plenty of feeds to external reviewers and user-submitted reviews. Seriously, I don't know anymore why you're ringing a bell here. The front site is literally the only thing that's being bottlenecked right now (aside from the slowness of the reviews but eh) Muh data says otherwise on facebook And I don't consider reviews a key aspect of Fuwanovel. Its more of a side project for the place imo
hsmsful Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Read every post so far and it seems multiple people are referring to events that happened today. Would it be by any chance Ren's video earlier? Seeing as he made an apology thread I am assuming it is that. OK I don't know if I should say this since some stuff are better left unspoken but oh well: Basically Ren made his butts thread followed by 3 or 4 weird threads be it the male oppai vs female oppai or the dick thread In addition to that, there was a similar incident not so long ago (less than a week ago) , there were some meaningless threads made too , one that made a small problem which was the arab trolling thread. Just blame F.S.G. and ts3.fuwanovel even thou they have already apologized one way or another in this post. And probably they shouldn't make any more problems. why the hell am I talking as if I have nothing to do with either of them?
solidbatman Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Here Lewy: /index.php?/topic/9926-site-project-updates">http://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/9926-site-project-updates Got a problem with something? Quit Fuwanovel.
OriginalRen Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Chiil yo. Making things worse with the attitude. Lewy already said his post had nothing to do with you, and he made it clear to me while bugging me on skype that it really has nothing to do with you. All those updates are good and all, but all of them are common knowledge. The problem is, we got promises of great things to come, but have sort of been in a status quo for one reason or another (waiting for various permissions from people, waiting for coders to pop back up, waiting for this and that)
solidbatman Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 For someone who tries to be in the public eye a lot and find ways to entertain people, you have some really thin skin.
babiker Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Or when the whole unban run shitstorm unfolded? Oh God, the memories. Stahp Plz stahp On a more serious note though, yes this state is nothing new really. Lewy's frustration isn't something new, it's a cycle I have seen and have been a part of multiple times. What can I say? As far as updates go, patience is a virtue... And I can't really say anything more to that. But I do know the core reason for the frustration... It's the lack of "non-shitty" posts and threads, and less the increase of shitty ones. With the number of members increasing, the increase in trolly threads is natural. But what is unnatural is that "meaningful non-shitty" posts have remained in their modest number, if anything they might have even been decreasing. What's the reason for this? I have no idea, I'm not Fuwa. I myself, however, have not posted much in that forum (I think last I did was in the unpopular opinions thread, the last interesting thread over there I can think of). And the real reason for that... Is that I simply discuss what I want to discuss with my close friends on Skype, and am satisfied with just that. Recently we did a Rewrite podcast, that won't be out for quite some time due to technical difficulties I'm afraid (yes, I have a crappy microphone). But yeah, that's my personal reason. Why did I share it? I guess I want to hear what others have to say or something.... So, final word I guess: For those who want change, start making it. The VN section is dead? Go make that thread you've always wanted to make. If you have nothing to contribute, then in what place are you to criticize...? That's the only way non-shitty threads will appear, If people start making them.
Darklord Rooke Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 I want the old Fuwa back we're Both genders where treated equal and everyone knew each other, and was Friendly! ( I know... everyone being Friendly? whaaa) LiquidShu 1
Tay Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Dearest Lewy, I'm writing a response to you as we speak. My response here is going to be more off-the-cuff, and I'll post a more thorough response to these and other concerns tomorrow in the community board. In the meantime... just gotta say that there's nothing like a good ole Fuwa identity crisis to get the blood pumping on a Saturday night : P
Tay Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 (Okay. I’m just going to talk directly to Lewy, but y’all can listen in and pretend I’m talking to you, too.) Hi Lewy. You look fabulous today. Hope you’re well. Anyway. Yes, thank you for bringing these things up. I really appreciate it when people speak up like this. #1 - “Why aren’t I seeing progress on the front page? This is kinda hard to answer. A lot actually has been done, Lewy, and Nay and I are still working on it fairly actively (Nay’s been busy the last 2 weeks, but we’re picking up). I realize you’re upset that the new front site hasn’t rolled out yet, but that doesn’t mean work has stalled. Nay is working on the coding, and I’m working on the new content. There’s actually a LOT that’s going into the new site which you may not expect. For example: according to Outlook, I’ve spent 53 front-site-dedicated hours in the last 30 days working on academy lessons, writing/rewording text assets, planning games pages, coordinating with companies and devs about outreach features, and, yes, drooling over Emi’s and Beato’s work and Nay’s themes : P. Nay’s put in significant time as well. I want the new site to be up just as much – maybe even more : P – than you do, but the fact of the matter is that we don’t want to put up a crappy product, and we need to make sure we don’t burn out. We aren’t a business. We’re a fan site. And it’s important to keep perspective if we don’t want to burn out. #8 - “Fuwa is going to die because it isn’t going anywhere.” Oh, I’m calling hyperbole on this one : P. (But I love ya. I’m always kinda touched when you speak up about this, Lewy, because I appreciate that you care.) My honest reaction to this is to wonder if we’re both at fault: I recognize that I’ve done a poor job regularly communicating the cool stuff/updates we’re working on, but on your end it sounds like you haven’t been paying attention to all the stuff we *have* been doing. Fuwa’s traffic and engagement with the wider VN audience, and interactions with new VN players is likely at an all-time high from what I’ve been seeing lately. Consider some of the stuff we’ve done in the last 60 days, for example: We’ve started our own VNTS program on the blog which has become quite popular, built VNTL-Moon (a TL updates aggregator), negotiated with the demeteloaf and the other nice guys on /r/visualnovels (Reddit) to get our VNTS posts included in their weekly TL posts (which I’m really appreciative of), and we’re drawing in a lot of traffic to the other Fuwa sites with this focus on TL A step-wise overhaul of Fuwa’s SEO which has had a major impact on visibility in the US, Europe and some parts of Asia (this is still in-progress because it’s complicated and takes a while) We’ve hired an analyst to help us track and improve our social media presence (focusing first on FB) After torrents went offline we restructured all of the sites and submitted them for review to 5 different tests, and were validated on all 5 (aka: we’re clean, and we’re safe to invest in the site). This was coupled with work to make sure all the site staff are squared away with participating on the site We got a new forums theme (party!) Launched the IP.Blogs and IP.Content apps I’ve got us approved (or in the process of approval) for 7 different affiliate programs to help pay for hosting (will be implemented on the “Buy” sections of game pages, etc.) ~40 more hours have gone into building the VN Reviews hub (still a little left to go before we can launch it in a major way, tho) I’ve successfully corrupted zaka We launched the VN players mentor program (I’m in the process of following-up on that, and eventually I’ll write up a brief report in case people are interested in how well the program worked) Added 5 new blogs to the reviews hub, talking with 4 more Negotiating partnerships with a few other VN communities I’m ~60% done reaching out to TL groups whose patches we used to host, as promised in my reddit open letter We’ve spent ~10 or so hours helping connect skilled hackers/TLers/TLCers/Editors with projects Overhauled the dev boards, got the two dev blogs functional Got the recognition team up and running (and they’re doing a great job, imo) We’re negotiating with a half-dozen devs or studios to get reviews copies of games for the reviews team, and extra licenses for giveaways and contests I’ve failed to give Rooke the attention his PMs deserve (< is that a positive? Hm. Not sure. Maybe I’d have more compassion if it weren’t for a certain drinking game he enjoys.) We’re ~50% done prepping our Google+ launch Oh, gosh. It’s 1AM here and my brain’s a little fuzzy. The last thing I’ll mention is we’ve done a lot of experimenting with financial stuff, too, and how best to keep Fuwa in the black (< which hasn’t yet happened : P). This takes a lot more time than you’d expect. That’s not an inconsequential list, but there are probably a lot of people who weren’t aware that we were working on all of the above. I mean, I hope you’re impressed with that list : P. We’re a hobby site, Lewy. Nobody’s being paid to do this (I’m literally operating at a loss, and Nay, for example, has a substantial opportunity cost to code for us instead of working overtime and rollin’ in the dough), and I’d much rather we all work at a sane pace and not burn out than run forward and unbalance our RL responsibilities. #5 – “The LC is dead.” Well, first of all, I didn’t realize that non-mods couldn’t post topics in the LC. That’s since been fixed. Apologies, Batman et. Al. That was a major oversight, and I do feel bad about it. You’re correct in that the LC has been pretty quiet lately, but that’s largely because we already decided on our priorities list and financial plan for Q1 2015, so there wasn’t a lot for us to talk about. We’re only just entering May (aka: Q2 2015), and I’m almost done drafting our next set of site priorities (read: project goals) and financial plan (I hoped to have it ready earlier this week, but a few devs have been slow to get back to me and I decided to wait so my reports would be complete). LC activity will increase when those are posted. That’s just the way these sorts of advisory committees work, Lewy. (In case you were concerned, the LC was made aware of the Q2 reports’ delay, and they knew the reasons for it, too.) Also, just remember that the LC is an advisory body for discussion about site issues. It’s not a decision making body. If you think a part of Fuwa isn’t working well, it’s the project managers (and then me) who have the power to change stuff. A quiet LC doesn’t mean their decision-making capacity is lessened in any way. #2 - Mods not modding strictly enough/ Forums content is getting pretty bad I posted about this several days ago, and I’ll continue to work with the mods on the issue. #4.Fuwa used to be small, close community and it’s changing Fuwa’s definitely growing, and keeping our best qualities (respect, friendliness, etc.) through the growth can be challenging. I think your worries are pretty normal. I’ve got them, too, from time to time. The best way I’ve learned to deal with it is to not focus on an abstract “Fuwanovel” – focus on the hobby and the goal to make VNs popular/support VNs in the West. All communities have problems, but we’ll be in especially bad shape if we start focusing too much on the meta-concept of Fuwanovel, and less on the hobby and our community goals. #3 - Sexism I do worry a lot about this and I’m being as proactive as I can in brainstorming this issue. I can’t talk about any specifics yet, but Fuwa’s actually hosting some fascinating and enlightning private discussions among VN community leaders about this issue. When they’re all completed, you’ll see a handful of posts go up on the blog about the conferences and ideas/discussions we had. #9 - Maef for admin Look. Nobody wanted this more than me, but Maef failed to turn in a completed application and – by Fuwa’s own laws – I couldn’t consider him for the job. I’m SORRY, but it wasn’t my fault. #6 – Need more admins I’d be interested in hearing what you mean by this. I’m going to hold off in commenting yet because I think we’d be talking right past each other until you are a little clearer. Try to be as concrete as possible. That’ll help. #10 – Thanks for meeting us halfway A lot of people have been extremely cool and stepped up in the comments and said they’re going to help us keep the forums looking/working better. I just want to say that I’m really, really grateful for everybody who is meeting us halfway. I realize I didn’t get to all 10 points, but my brain is really, really tired and I think I should probably stop to let you respond. Thanks for posting, Lewy. I mean it. - Tay Heizei_koukousei, Kosakyun, Getsuya and 10 others 13
atorq Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Ah, the good old days when everything was glorious, no one was being an asshole and everything was perfect. Why is it that humans have to be so reminiscent of past? On every forum I have ever been there have always been the old veterans talking about how everything used to be better (this also seems to be the case for life in general). Everything was not better, you just remember the good parts. And inevitably as the forum grows there will be more assholes and immature users, but some good old rules and mods should be able to care of this. And to Finnish (get it? cuz i'm a finn, hueheheh) I'd like to say that this has so far been the nicest forum I have yet to visit. The asshole ratio seem to be quite low so far even if it increased with me.
Deep Blue Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 I think the tolerance on this forum is pretty high, you can ask the same question over and over again and the users will help you out no matter what, when in other forums they will start trolling you or behaving like semi-gods... Recently I have seen a lot of topics about inside jokes but I don't even enter them because it's really easy to tell which topics are those
Darklord Rooke Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 Dear Tay Due to Lewy’s frustration at being unable to jot down exactly what he means, he has asked me to articulate his arguments for him. You’re a lucky, lucky man Tay. But don’t worry, before I started to write this post Lewy and I had a long argument where he role-played himself and I role-played you (I was extra careful to include the words “parsing,” “extant,” “meta,” and “a rising tide lifts all ships,” it wouldn’t have been authentic otherwise.) Anyway I now feel I have a decent understanding of what he wants to say, so treat this post as if it came from Lewy. But before we do, some proof that Lewy indeed asked me to represent him. We need a stable Admin group who always has someone who is active and keen to help and keep projects alive. sanahtlig, Mr Poltroon and Emi 3
OriginalRen Posted May 3, 2015 Posted May 3, 2015 2 – We are aiming to become a home for all people in the VN community. A respectful and relaxing place not just for those into eroge, but for those who only like all-ages VNs, and also for those who only like otome. A place where any person of any gender can relax, enjoy themselves, and have fun, something made possible because of the respectful atmosphere Fuwanovel generates. Therefore the sexual objectification of women, the giggling at real life tragedies, all those elements people find despicable in 4-chan should not be a part of the forums. We don’t want to become the sewer just above that sewer named 4-chan, we want to be a welcoming haven for not only young men but young women also.
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