Fuwa? What happened?

[Mr Poltroon]

15. Rooke one man armies every opposer.

That's unfair, I was on Rooke's side as well!

[Eclipsed]

That's unfair, I was on Rooke's side as well!

[Kurisu-Chan]

Eh lol, actually i never meant sexist jokes but dark humour joke, for me, sexist jokes falls in the same category as racist jokes, they are discriminative.

 

 

Then, it depends on how you make them. 

[solidbatman]

So , i take part of blame that this thread was created.

It was me who complained about it and it was me who said that i might aswell just leave soon. 

I know people do jokes and troll threads. 

at times there's just some threads that i dont want to see.

 

maybe i should speak up myself for content that i find disrespectful.

Just that im a person that usually dont, i complain to the friends from here instead. (poor lewy, rooke, bats that have to listen to it. )

because even if i like it or not , i dont want to bother the community with it and keep it small. 

same as it wasnt me who presented my design for the frontpage originally either. 

So its my own problem and fault for not speaking up i guess. (i suck at writing shit like this anyway)

 

My intent is not to stop people from having theyr fun.

Just that its been alot lately and i "overreact".

 

people want  different things & like different things and  im not a person to prevent them to.

my hopes is nothing of "old fuwa".

Things change by time, and fuwa and i just have been going in different directions.

i dont know what fuwa's goals for the future is. its not up to me.

 

Might been good that the topic is brought up.

just would have wished it didnt start an big argue.

I think this speaks more to inconsistent moderation. Because of precedent, many people felt that dark humor, or sexist humor was acceptable. And, it is to an extent. I know you well enough to know that the last thing you want is to eliminate the fun. We've both taken part in these "fun" threads before. 

 

But due to inconsistencies in rule enforcement, it can be very easy to cross the line between acceptable and unacceptable, and not even realize it. I can say with confidence, that the staff is working to fix this after this thread popped up, and they seem to realize the underlying issue here. I am hoping that they will make some internal changes to better moderate the forums. 

 

Because in a perfect world, they are merely maids of the forums, and not babysitters. By setting a consistent standard for moderation, that is followed from the top down (globals to board mods), they can hopefully go back to being forum maids, cleaning up, merging, moving, and locking threads. 

[Eclipsed]

Moderator standards and rule enforcement issues aside, if you guys are ever bothered by the existence of threads and whatnot, there's always a report button!

Or PM a BM if no GMs are present (BMs can't see reports).

[Stray Cat]

Moderator standards and rule enforcement issues aside, if you guys are ever bothered by the existence of threads and whatnot, there's always a report button!

Or PM a BM if no GMs are present (BMs can't see reports).

Yes, I would definitely encourage this.  Unfortunately, we do not posses all-seeing eyes on the forums.  So please, simply PM us if you come across something offensive, we will look into it ASAP.

[sanahtlig]

sexist jokes are never okay. There's no such thing as a well used sexist joke. They shouldn't be made, ever. But I don't want a mod to ensure they won't be made. I want people to know better. They won't know better if we appeal to power.

[Lefon]

What are you serious?  Neko nyaa. Lewy. You are no fun nyaa. Expect for fuwa not having torrents anymore it feel about the same to me 

Well when your appealing to a target market that wants visual novels it makes sense to provide it. They decided that instead of appealing to that target market they wanted to make a dedicated forum with a half baked VN finding system. It's not like there was allready another website that allready provided that service and was allready well established... Oh wait... So now they are relying entirely on the community they built to substain them with no incentive for newcomers to join. Although there are other web forums that are entirely dedicated to web forums but when your motto is "Bringing visual novels to the west" it's a good idea to deliver.

[Nosebleed]

I don't know how much steam people have let out, but I feel complied to inform you all that offensive content is never okay and I don't believe any staff member stands for it. Though I will also mention unless someone tells me something is offensive to them I can't exactly figure it out by myself, so I really do encourage people to speak up and report stuff that offends them.

 

As batman mentioned, as it stands now, the staff is pretty much bound by a very specific ruling system which is both a good and a bad thing, and on top of that the staff are accostumed with a lot of similar precedent cases, leading judgement to be, I guess clouded would be the best term, as a lot of us are used to certain things that newer members perhaps are not, and that's something that really needs to be addressed by the staff.

 

I think we all can agree we need to change how moderation works quite a bit, and I have made suggestions on how to change some ways in the LC for people to comment on there, and hopefully after some discussion we'll attempt to kind of start from a blank slate and see if we can improve our ways in the future as much as we can so everyone can have a peaceful environment for their discussions.

 

As someone who's been used to this kind of thing and is hardly offended by anything, I don't let most things bother me much, but it's clear that it bothers other people, and it is my and the rest of the staff's duty to reply back to the community when something that wasn't as much of a problem becomes a prevalent problem and I'd like to tell you all that we are at this moment trying to change how things work and I think the whole staff knows exactly what they can do better so hopefully in the future we can solidify our moderation and make it better for everyone.

 

I don't intend on locking this thread, I think it was quite informative and I don't believe in censoring meaningful discussion, but I'd just like to inform everyone that we're trying to do something about the issues going on and I think we will be able to work something out soon enough. (not soon )

[Cyrillej1]

So people are speaking for the entire female population of Fuwa even when they don't fall into that category now, huh?

 

When I signed up for a forum that was centered around eroge, I knew what I was getting into. I knew that I was going to be in the minority, but you know what? I didn't really care. I found a place where I could talk freely about these things, and as a result, I've never felt the need to censor my thoughts when posting here. And you know what? I have never once felt "discriminated against" or whatever else some people are calling it now. I've never felt like I've been treated differently because I'm a woman. Ever.

 

Threads about how attractive butts are may seem immature to some, but it's not offensive. There's definitely a fine line between the two, in my opinion, and I genuinely don't believe that Fuwa crosses it. Note that this is just one person in a group of many, but as part of the group involved in this particular issue, I think it's worth mentioning.

I think it's nice that you feel that way.  The only problem is that.. although you may be okay, not every other girl may be.^^;  

I'm guessing what people are actually worried about is making fuwa's atmosphere more welcoming to all girls. That will also help attract & keep more females in the fuwa community.

 

Although I think I'm pretty tolerant about things like this, especially because I feel everyone on fuwa is very friendly.. even I thought some content I've seen recently have been a bit questionable.  Not because I was personally bothered by them really, but more because I could see how it could've been offensive to girls if it were to be taken seriously.

 

I think I may be partly to blame for what happened too... since like @Emi, I did voice my concerns to some friends of mine as well. I'm also the type of person who doesn't want to stir up problems for the community but share my opinions with the few I know on fuwa... so that might have contributed to things snowballing. 

 

To Ren

I'm sorry to have brought it up again... I do feel very badly about how things turned out, and it makes me sad to see you so troubled recently. I know you always did things to help people and probably never had the intention to offend or hurt anyone. I guess to avoid future problems like this, just try to be more careful and aware of how your content can come off... it's not guaranteed that everyone will be fine with it, so may be safer to tone down a bit or avoid altogether if you don't want to offend anyone. I think talking about why you're attracted to "anime girl butts" is alright, but when it comes to mixing/comparing it with real girls even as a joke, it can get messy. 

  Some girls may not be able to take it as a compliment, but as an insult.

 

Anyways.. I do admire your openness and bravery Ren, and I hope you feel better soon!

[suikashoujo]

I think it's nice that you feel that way. The only problem is that.. although you may be okay, not every other girl may be.^^;

I'm guessing what people are actually worried about is making fuwa's atmosphere more welcoming to all girls. That will also help attract & keep more females in the fuwa community.

Although I think I'm pretty tolerant about things like this, especially because I feel everyone on fuwa is very friendly.. even I thought some content I've seen recently have been a bit questionable. Not because I was personally bothered by them really, but more because I could see how it could've been offensive to girls if it were to be taken seriously.

I think I may be partly to blame for what happened too... since like @Emi, I did voice my concerns to some friends of mine as well. I'm also the type of person who doesn't want to stir up problems for the community but share my opinions with the few I know on fuwa... so that might have contributed to things snowballing.

To Ren

I'm sorry to have brought it up again... I do feel very badly about how things turned out, and it makes me sad to see you so troubled recently. I know you always did things to help people and probably never had the intention to offend or hurt anyone. I guess to avoid future problems like this, just try to be more careful and aware of how your content can come off... it's not guaranteed that everyone will be fine with it, so may be safer to tone down a bit or avoid altogether if you don't want to offend anyone. I think talking about why you're attracted to "anime girl butts" is alright, but when it comes to mixing/comparing it with real girls even as a joke, it can get messy.

Some girls may not be able to take it as a compliment, but as an insult.

Anyways.. I do admire your openness and bravery Ren, and I hope you feel better soon!

No, I completely understand that I very well may be the only girl here who feels this way. I said in my post that I was just speaking for myself, after all. But I just wanted to get my thoughts out there, even if I very well may be in the minority on this issue. I'm not saying that no one should be offended if that's how they feel, but I thought it was a little unfair that people were basically saying I SHOULD be offended. That's all. ^^

[The Major]

I'd like to step in from the sideline and say a few things.

It makes me really sad to see how this whole thing unfolded. Was it really necessary to call Fuwanovel a sewage full of turd?  Why wasn't this addressed in private message, instead of making a thread that was absolutely guaranteed to blow up in to a fight? Really, there was no reason why this couldn't have been handled in private between the offenders and staff. If the OPs were made aware of somebody being offended by their threads, I'm sure they would have apologized and this whole incident could have easily been avoided. The staff could have made a PSA reminding people about the rules of the forums, and how Fuwa prides itself in being a welcoming community for everyone, so it's important to think about others before posting something like that. The Fuwans would understand. Instead we have 7 pages of arguing over this supposed "sexism" that really didn't need to happen. Saying that you like butts or breasts isn't sexism, by the way. But I can absolutely understand it making people uncomfortable. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I mean, I'm not exactly comfortable talking about sexual stuff. But, looking back at this thread... I don't really see the point. A few members made mistakes. They got carried away. Threads got deleted and warnings were probably issued. It was done. Over. But the angry reaction to all of this really just did it for me. I know it sounds immature, but I was legitimately upset to the point where I just wanted to leave Fuwa (and I wasn't even involved in any way!). The most important thing to me is I really hope this incident didn't create more divides than there already are in the community, but I can't help but think it did.

I guess that's it. There's a reason why I don't normally jump in to these heated debates over forum policy and stuff. I basically try to avoid confrontation and arguing at all costs. Not to mention that writing isn't really my strong suit, so I have trouble getting my feelings into words. That's it, though. I just wanted to say a few things.

 

I know I'm late to the thread, but I was waiting for everything to slow down before I said anything.

[Darklord Rooke]

 Why wasn't this addressed in private message, instead of making a thread that was absolutely guaranteed to blow up in to a fight? 

 

From what I understand, complaints were made and nothing was done until community outrage reached a certain point. I think Lewy's thread was a part of that community outrage. It would be awesome if the mods were pro-active enough so that incidents like this didn't happen, BUT there are new mod guidelines in place and people are still trying to find their feet etc etc. Unfortunately I think the public outrage was necessary to remind staff that people do view certain behaviours on the forum as problematic, and to be honest this had been building for a while now. 

[Eclipsed]

I vote Rooke for GM.

[Mr Poltroon]

I vote Rooke for GM.

[Tyrael]

Zaka for GM pls

[Zakamutt]

pls no I have enough I should be doing already (and that I actually have some level of actual skill in www)

[krill]

pls no I have enough I should be doing already (and that I actually have some level of actual skill in www)

 

not only that but if he takes on more responsibility who will correct my horrid spelling and grammatical errors ?

[babiker]

I vote Rooke for GM.

 

Zaka for GM pls

[Tay]

I vote Rooke for GM.

 

&

 

Zaka for GM pls

 

RE: Should the day come... God help us all...

[Vemocleus]

Wow.  Dis thread tho...   What a read. 

[arakura]

Can we get some citations for content that was sexist and harassing? Something more concrete than "those three threads that no longer exist" ideally >,>

Or has everyone agreed that this place is actually sexist and harasses females?

[Nayleen]

I've been incredibly busy with work (big conferences, new feature releases and important bugs that caused concrete deadlines), sometimes spending 50-60 hour weeks in the office and not feeling up to "bringing my work home with me" to be honest, I just wanted to disconnect and play some games, ever since starting my new job in February.

 

Just the other day I was thinking about how much I neglected everything in here and have been trying to step up my game since, but I certainly won't have the time until Saturday evening. Even then I'll finish the About section of the beta site at best, and everything else is still in such rough draft status that I'm having trouble making everything look nice, since front-end (the visuals and that kind of stuff on a web page) isn't my forte.

 

I'm also kind of sad you didn't address this with me directly if you seem to have such a big problem with the lack of progress, Lewy. You know I'm passionate about the site as well, and that guilt-tripping me into putting some time into it might actually work. No hard feelings though.

[krill]

*Not only that, but if he takes on more responsibility, who will correct my horrid spelling and grammatical errors?

 

I accept cash

no cash for you , but when the yanderes invade and destroy most of humanity your name will be on the scroll of the protected so you will be kept as a pet and escape death.

[bogdankl]

so i will be perfectly honest and up front, you all sound like a bunch of conservative butthurt old men

 

no i was not here when the forum was smaller, i don't really see a lot of immature posts <maybe cuz i don't frequent this part of the forum> and compared to the old forum I used to frequent it's not nearly as bad

 

I honestly can't see it you're way, so what if you start a topic and someone comes in to troll and tell bad jokes <i myself am sure guilty of telling bad jokes>, as long as the old members are there to keep the conversation rolling along it shouldn't be a problem, so what if someone gives an inexperienced opinion, or goes of on a tangent, or just says something really stupid, is it really that bad having to reply and explain to them? is it really that bad to have a real argument with someone, to explain each others point of view?

 

so there are trolls, trolls will come sooner or later anywhere you go on the internet, so there are immature people starting posts and going on and on about stupid sh!t, nobody's forcing you to live with them, it's like in school, even tho you learn in the same class i don't think anyone is forcing you to like one another

 

then again i'm an idiot who spends all of his time alone hiding from the world in front of the computer, what do i know