Maggie's journal

Very cool post, I still sometimes have problems with seperating how certain terms are used in Japan, among western otaku and in other fandoms, they flow through different communities pretty much gaining seperate meanings in every one of them. :] 

BTW, talking about pedophilia in connection to Japanese media is always a bit risky thing to do, the first thing it that it's a medical term that is generally overused in various contexts, the second one is that it pretty strictly relates to sexual attraction to pre-puberty children (basically primary school-age kids or younger), so there's a lot of questionable sexual scenarios that doesn't really fit the term, even if they're within the definition of "child porn" by western standards or would be simply socially unacceptable. 

A word of advice - japanese don't use the terms shoujo/shonen ai. Those have been both invented and introduced in the west by the community as means to separate more sexually explicit works (which are typically 18+ only) from tamer publications that typically deal only with romance (or both, but don't show the former). In Japan, these are referred to as either yaoi or yuri regardless of their themes and japanese readers typically don't place such distinctions for their works, either.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Narcosis

8 minutes ago, Narcosis said:

A word of advice - japanese don't use the terms shoujo/shonen ai. Those have been both invented and introduced in the west by the community as means to separate more sexually explicit works (which are typically 18+ only) from tamer publications that typically deal only with romance (or both, but doesn't show the former). In Japan, these are referred to as either yaoi or yuri regardless of their themes and japanese readers typically don't place such distinctions for their works, either.

I'm amazed at your level of not reading the post tbh this is high skill

14 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

BTW, talking about pedophilia in connection to Japanese media is always a bit risky thing to do, the first thing it that it's a medical term that is generally overused in various contexts, the second one is that it pretty strictly relates to sexual attraction to pre-puberty children (basically primary school-age kids or younger), so there's a lot of questionable sexual scenarios that doesn't really fit the term, even if they're within the definition of "child porn" by western standards or would be simply socially unacceptable. 

Hey, thanks for the input! I really... struggled with this word while writing, should I use, should I not? Like I said, I never saw a manga that with huge age gaps in yuri, so I didn't even have an example to check. I have limited knowledge in the field, so if you think it was inappropriate, please do tell me!

Edited January 27, 2018 by MaggieROBOT

Swear for a moment I thought this was a post about the Uke, Seme & Seke thing. zoD

But really good post! I think the term that is used form the bara counterpart of Yuri is "Josei Yuri" or "Josei GL" (WL, Woman's Love maybe?), but, I'm not so sure.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Guest

Just now, SeniorBlitz said:

Swear for a moment I thought this was a post about the Uke, Seme & Seke thing. zoD

Since you want, seme and uke comes from martial arts terms, taken from the verbs "to attack" and "to receive". Seke is just a portmanteau, to describe a character that goes both roles.

1 minute ago, MaggieROBOT said:

Since you want, seme and uke comes from martial arts terms, taken from the verbs "to attack" and "to receive". 

I didn't know that. 

 

I also read some mangas that didn't use "seme" and "uke", but "tachi" and "neko" instead. It's pretty much the same thing tho.

I think tachi and neko are more common for yuri, it's mentioned in Kindred Spirits actually kek. That said I personally don't like the whole power thing and would like couples to be more equal...

16 minutes ago, Zakamutt said:

That said I personally don't like the whole power thing and would like couples to be more equal...

This type of thing was created as way to make the homo couples more "hetero" since some publishers wouldn't sell the manga unless it followed the "stereotypical hetero" couple type of role (this also one of the reason way BL have some very feminine guys, not only to please the female audience but also to get more publishers to be okay with publishing this type of content). Yes it is time we drop it.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Guest

3 hours ago, MaggieROBOT said:

Hey, thanks for the input! I really... struggled with this word while writing, should I use, should I not? Like I said, I never saw a manga that with huge age gaps in yuri, so I didn't even have an example to check. I have limited knowledge in the field, so if you think it was inappropriate, please do tell me!

Well, I simply think this term is used in a way that makes it lose any real meaning - it's better to simply avoid it unless for really clear-cut cases (that is, when you have an erotic plot with an adult and a pre-puberty child, like this SonoHana game for example). A romance between an adult and an older teenager might be "illegal" by our standards but doesn't have to appeal to pedophiles or be targeted towards them. And not every case of child rape or child molestation is connected to pedophilia whatsoever. So, when you use this term for broad generalizations, you'll more likely than not miss the point - it's not criticism, as I see it done everywhere and it's hard to really see through the misconception unless you deal with the topic in some more or less systematic ways (as both my master's thesis and my PhD project are primarily in porn studies, the discussion about pedophilia and child porn is something I've gone through dozens of times).

Edited January 27, 2018 by Plk_Lesiak

1 hour ago, Zakamutt said:

I think tachi and neko are more common for yuri, it's mentioned in Kindred Spirits actually kek. That said I personally don't like the whole power thing and would like couples to be more equal...

Aaah, I see! I really need to read Kindred Spirits, seems like a lovely game, it's on my backlog since forever...

57 minutes ago, SeniorBlitz said:

Yes it is time we drop it.

^This, a hundred times over.

28 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Well, I simply think this term is used in a way that makes it lose any real meaning - it's better to simply avoid it unless for really clear-cut cases (that is, when you have an erotic plot with an adult and a pre-puberty child, like this SonoHana game for example). A romance between an adult and an older teenager might be "illegal" by our standards but doesn't have to appeal to pedophiles or be targeted towards them. And not every case of child rape or child molestation is connected to pedophilia whatsoever. So, when you use this term for broad generalizations, you'll more likely than not miss the point - it's not criticism, as I see it done everywhere and it's hard to really see through the misconception unless you deal with the topic in some more or less systematic ways (as both my master's thesis and my PhD project are primarily in porn studies, the discussion about pedophilia and child porn is something I've gone through dozens of times).

Oh, thank you so much for such detailed response! I'll be more careful!