adamstan

...and done with San Shimai. That was quick It's probably because it is closer to typical adventure game than VNs, as there are no multiple routes. There's basically one story, with one good ending, and several bad ends. There are also some optional scenes which you can skip. It was much darker than Sakura no Kisetsu. The plot was actually not bad, even if following some cliches. But not anime/moe cliches, rather b-movies It is also more h-heavy, although some scenes lead to bad end. The number of scenes is probably similar, but since there are no routes, it all happens in single story, so one may get the feeling that the protag fucks around too much, like he was some James Bond or whatever . But there were some emotional moments here and there too. In true adventure games fashion, bad ends aren't instant - they just change the epilogue you get. So you can trigger one, and then still play thru whole story until it shows. "Adventure gameplay" aspect was executed better here, with less pointless choices. Art is similar to Sakura no Kisetsu, it actually shares some assets with it (school backgrounds). I like the character design, following that 90's anime look. As I said when reviewing Sakura no Kisetsu, I'd really like to see some of that style in newer games. Music was really good. Translation is on similar level - ther are some typos, missing words and few mismatched names, but overally it's readable. Nice hybrid - or transitional work - between VN and text adventure. If you aren't put off by ancient technical limitations - try it. 7/10. Works well with DOSBox. Unfortunately version that is downloadable from abandonware sites has one h-CG broken - lower half of image is messed up. Also, web version can be played at Asenheim Project.

I'm not turned off by cliches, so I should be OK with Kanon However, I think that now I may dive again into ancient times, and read San Shimai. I liked Sakura no Kisetsu, and this seems to be its close counterpart, made around the same time and using the same engine (although localized 3 years later, in 1999) - and they even share some backgrounds (like classroom or school yard) which is little surprising considering they have different developers*. Of course I'm going for DOS version again As a sidenote to my above TA review: *now i see - one is made by "TIARE" and other by "JAST", but they both were just branches/brands of JAST Co.

I just finished Tomoyo After (without dunegon minigame) - I played official all-ages enlish release . I really liked the interactions between all five main characters in "common route" or first chapter - it was really funny. Little Tomo was sweet, and I loved how she urged Tomoyo and Tomoya to "get along" Kanako could be little annoying at the beginning, but I actually liked her, and then she grew on me even more, as she is pretty important in later chapters, and does some great things. She shares some personality traits (and a voice ) with Haruka from LB!, whom I also liked. Love between Tomoyo and Tomoya is great here as well - certainly doesn't lose to Nagisa x Tomoya After reading here and there about bittersweet ending Music and art was beautiful. It was the first VN I played with voiced protagonist - it turned out well too. Translation felt somewhat rougher than Clannad's - and there were few lines I had trouble figuring out - but still it was okay. Overally - not as great as Clannad itself, but still very good - 8/10 (the score above doesn't account the "Dungeons and Takafumis", as I haven't played that yet) Now, what to read next - Kanon, or perhaps something from different creators for a change of pace, to avoid Key overdose?

That's exactly the point I was trying to make too, but you, as translator, conveyed it much better. Maybe that's why some call it "lazy"... but then sometimes it is "lesser evil" On the other hand - if they come up with good solution, that will make really interesting read.

Same with me. I can't think of a good way to do it without butchering the scene or sounding way more awkward than with honorifics in place. That's why I was surprised by this Dergonu's statement: It should have disclaimer: "except for charages and moeges" And, unfortunately, if there are even few scenes that require it, it applies to whole game, as incosistency is probably even worse.

There was hilarious instance in Kazoku Keikaku (which is complete editing mess, with all possible ways of translation mixed up). In one scene Matsuri speaks to Aoba calling her "Aoba-neesan" which got translated as "Sister Aoba"

But if not-so-good translator tries to do it (that is, remove them), it's double disaster. (And good translators seem to be rare)

All ages. I bought whole Clannad bundle on Steam summer sale. After hearing how bad Key's h-scenes are, I have no desire to read any of them. When applying tl-patches to Air and Kanon I used all-ages options too. (In case of AIR that included mixing two patches. Supposedly GaoGao translations' patch is better, so I used this, and then added numbered "seenxxx.txt" files that make replacements/cuts for h-scenes from WinterConfetti's all-ages conversion)

I think there can be more exceptions. Basically, every case where using of this or that honorific combined with first or last name is plot point, is explicitly talked about, and characters make great fuss about it. Like my Princess Evangile example from another thread. Recreating that scene (and whole Vincennes' "ecosystem") without using any honorifics at all would be really difficult task, and results may not sound good. While it's true that every language has different levels of politeness, they may not be compatible with what we see in VNs. And honorifics in VNs are not only about politeness, but also about different levels of affection and familiarity. Like, most highschoolers in VNs adress each other by "lastname-san" unless they are close to each other. In English we have only choice of using last name or first name. While sometimes "-san" could be translated as Mr/Ms among adults, in HS situation it would sound ridiculous. Using only last name may sound rude. And if we default to first name, then we may get away with it if there is no change in relationship. But then, what to do when they get closer, and switch to first name? Translation has nowhere to go. Also, if it's just generic "name-san" because it had to be there for basic politeness in Japanese, then chop it off, no problem Side note: I don't like when there is too much discrepancy between voice and text (like character constantly uses last name but translation uses first). So with unvoiced titles, it is possible to do more of adaptation work without annoying the player Katawa Shoujo did nice job at avoiding it - Hisao just suggests to switch to first-name basis, they agree, and that's it Maybe not exactly realistic considering the setting, but definitely better than English writer trying to imitate Japanese speech patterns.

There's some truth in this, yeah. So count me as one that easily falls for cheap tricks. After all, if it didn't work on anybody, writers wouldn't write like that OTOH there are some explanations for her illness connected to the Illusionary World (there was some discussion about that at kazamatsuri.org) [After story spoliers] As I don't expect all characters to have strong or "interesting" personalities, I was OK with her. And, well, "love for her family" isn's some dismissable thing - it's pretty important for me. "She makes for a boring girlfriend, but great wife" - I'm not sure who said that, and if it was in-game or some forum post, but this quote fits Nagisa I think. "To love and be loved" - that's my dream. Maybe that isn't exactly realistic, and indeed while playing romance VNs I often catch myself at thinking - "No way! There are no such girls as her! (at least not nearby )", but well, games are form of escapism, and man can dream, right? Fuuko is cute weirdo, but certainly not bland. All in all - I have pretty low threshold for suspension of disbelief, so unless there are GLARING plot holes or contradicitons, I just go with the flow of the story and enjoy the ride . And, to stay directly on topic - now I'm starting Tomoyo After.

Yesterday I finished Clannad. (with Steam's time counter at 67 hrs) What can I say, it was great. @wei123 said that Tomoyo & Kyou were best girls, but while I love them, it isn't as easy to pick for me - they all were lovely. Tomoyo's was first "romance" route that I read (Misae's was more like an introduction to the world for me). Her and Tomoya were nice couple, I really liked it, but then... I also love peace that Yukine brings, and her sweet, caring personality, I want to protect Kotomi and never ever leave her again, I want Mei and Fuko as my little sisters... Kyou is amazing girl too - I liked how she was on the same wavelength with Tomoya, and her ending had some really moving moments for me. And then, I totally love Nagisa, and really like how her relationship with Tomoya was portrayed in VN. They need each other, and seem to be meant for each other and I totally get how she is main heroine. And let's not forget pair of greatest supporting characters I've seen - Akio and Sanae. AfterStory was great too, but saying almost anything will probably be spoiler... Strangely, the scene that moved me the most was Fuko's ending That didn't only make my eyes wet, but it actually made me sob and cry. Thank goodness, that she finally got her happy ending too - I see that some readers dislike Fuko, but I can't. 風子ちゃんが嫌いになれない。　She turned out to be one of my favorite characters. Now something about the game itself. Backgrounds were really nice, and characters were looking good too - I probably got used to Hinoue Itaru's style. Then, the music - that was totally awesome. My favorite tracks are melancholic song that plays during Illusionary World sequences, and both ending songs. I didn't have any issues with translation - it reads smoothly, and feels pretty lively. So, after all, it seems like it's Nagisa for me. (BTW, I forgot to mention it, but oh how cuuute she looks in her waitress uniform ) So now, everybody sing: "Dango, Dango!" Great experience, 9/10

It's OK I guess. I didn't feel as overwhelmed with h-scenes as it sometimes was with Majikoi S.

Does that mean that all incoming VN Steam releases are in danger? Why now? And, considering that, how in the hell did Maitetsu get through? I'm actually waiting for SolPress' releases - Yotsunoha and Sakura Sakura.

I'm still going through Clannad. For now, I have one thing to say - Fuuu-chaaaan That feels train hit me really hard...

I could agree that it's more on a "bland" side, but that didn't bother me as long as there weren't broken sentences. At least for dialogues, I treat translation more like a subtitles, so as long as I can easily get the meaning, I'm fine. But indeed, if one expects "good english writing", that blandness may be a problem. And after thinking about it some more, I have to admit that Clannad's translation is much "livelier" - and it's better that way. It looks like there were some liberties taken here and there (judging by length of spoken and written lines ), but it worked out really well - for example exchanges between Tomoya and Akio (I'm currently on Fuko's route) sound and read great. Nevertheless, they kept the honorifics

That's the term I've been missing. It seems to me that the conflict is based on this: - For some part of readers (mostly native english speakers, I think) certain japanese speech patterns sound unnatural and wrong, while for other readers some english speech patterns sound wrong and unnatural in japanese setting. I remember the comment somebody made in one of the discussions, that "No english-speaking teenager would speak like this" (it was about "reading the mood" or "moving your body" if I remember correctly). However, OTOH, I completely don't care what would American or English teenager say, and I don't expect Japanese characters to speak like them. I don't think there is easy "one fits them all" solution, and I think it's impossible to establish hard rule regarding honorifics and similar things - it will be different for each story. For example, Fureraba did pretty well without them (even though it's set in Japan), but (as in my example in earlier post) I think it would be impossible (and pointless) for Princess Evangile.

Yeah, this - if characters and setting are Japanese, let's not pretend that they are not.

No, you can even skip it - as all other mini games too. With them turned off you can still complete the game. There is only one exception - it seems that to get one of Saya's alternate endings ("School revolution") you need to have shooting minigame enabled. I followed walkthtrough, but with minigame disabled, and couldn't get it - as some conditions for this ending are directly connected to the minigame. (All of the above is for the official release - LB! English Edition) However, I really enjoyed baseball minigame - at first I also missed all the balls, but when I got little better at it, it got funny Those chibi sprites used during the minigame are so cuuute Tip: use mouse for controlling Riki - with keyboard it would indeed be nearly impossible. AFAIR I kept button pressed to move him with the mouse, and released it to hit the ball.

Let me add one more thought about the translations. I'm currently reading Clannad, and it indeed is fine. However, I didn't perceive LB! to be substantially worse than it. I started to wonder why , and it's probably due to English not being my first language. Thanks to that, many things that feel bad or unnatural for native speakers don't hit me directly. I'd probably be similarly critical about translations into my native language as Fred is about english ones. And if presented with not-too-good translations into PL and EN - I'd probably choose english one, because errors in it wouldn't be as glaring and disturbing for me.

True. Sorry for being fun killer I'm perfectly OK with old-looking games too.

Your comment actually prompted me to buy CC - I got really curious how it changed compared to that initial release that got pirated. I don't think it was bad - I actually enjoyed it, even if I felt that editor went a little overboard

I was turned off from Dracu Riot by the whole vampire setting, but if somebody likes such thing, and liked Noble Works, then probably they'll have fun with it too.

Well, I think there are cases when they can be removed without any loss (especially when the setting isn't japanese), but sometimes the way characters address each other (and how it changes - last name, first name, different honorifics) is important plot device and they make great fuss about it. In such cases I don't see viable replacement - when you cut them out, some dialogues turn into nonsense*. So hard ban would be going too far. Either way, they don't bother me at all when they're present, and IMHO it's "safer" to have them, at least in most high-school romances . * As an example, take one of early scenes in Princess Evangile, where one of the girls explains to Masaya how you should address various people, using various honorifics (or none, in case of younger ones). With honorifics removed, whole scene is pointless, and it is brought up in different parts of the story too.

Maybe he meant the games themselves look old? (because they are)

Yeah, for me it's an exaggeration too. IMO It's at least decent. Probably it doesn't follow some rules that Fred considers unbreakable (Like, I vaguely remember him saying that honorifics should be banned in translations) And I suppose he'd argue that we are so used to horrible TLs that we no longer notice their horribleness