Scars Unseen

I'm finally making my way through my first Key VN, Clannad. Almost done with Minae's route. I'm starting to think that this really should have been my 2nd VN to read after Katawa Shoujo, as I was more or less looking for something similar when I finished that one. I had some problems with the files at the time(had no internet, so I was downloading onto my tablet and transferring manually; something kept getting screwed up in the process) and ended up playing Steins;Gate instead, which turned me on to VNs with sci-fi/fantasy themes. Consequentially I kept putting off school dramedies in favor of VNs like Muv-Luv. But people keep speaking highly of Key's work, so I figure I need to try one out, so here we are. So far the comedy is decent, not as good as Grisaia, but better than Muv-Luv Extra. I'm guessing that the drama will come into play more on other routes, as it seems that Misae's is a bit on the short side.

Hmm.. interesting... I'll probably give this one a go once I replace my broken e-reader. Thanks.

I can't really agree with this, because

From the titles and descriptions I'm seeing, I don't think I've ever watched anything like that. I generally either prefer something dark and twisted, like Serial Experiments Lain or something absurd, like To Love-ru. I also like anime/manga that make you think, like Liar Game. But just cute girls doing cute things? I probably wouldn't enjoy that much. Not as the primary focus anyway.

I liked all the heroines from Grisaia no Kajitsu. I didn't think I was going to like Michiru at first, but her antics made her impossible to dislike for long. As an added bonus, I even liked the male protagonist of Grisaia.

I'm just now reading my first Key VN(and it's Clannad, so no H-Scenes). Are they really that bad at it? I mean, I'm not a huge fan of them anyway because most of the ones I've come across aren't that good, so I'm almost afraid to see what fans of eroge in general think of as bad H.

I watched the movies after watching the series so I could see the differences, and right now, the best I can come up with is that I would probably have felt the same if I had only watched the first movie. Well maybe not exactly the same, since I wouldn't have a prior complete work to compare it to, but the feeling would be similar at least. Speaking of the movies, for those that have watched them:

I'm pretty sure I understand it. I'm just not sure if I like it. I really don't think it was necessary. Finishing PMMM felt kind of like finishing the first season of Heroes. It was complete. But still, I can't say that I dislike Rebellion. Not yet at least. I think it really mostly boils down to it ending on a cliffhanger like it did. Given how satisfying the end of PMMM was, Rebellion's can't help but seem off putting in comparison.

Well I just finished watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Rebellion(what a mouthful). I'm still trying to decide whether I like it or not. It's not truly bad like Darker than Black's sequel was, but... I don't know. It bothers me, and maybe it's supposed to. It's obviously not the end of the story, so I can't really judge it as a complete work, but... I really just don't know.

In my ongoing effort to catch up on anime after taking a break for several years, I have just finished watching Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Probably going to watch Rebellion tonight.

Indeed. I personally get into debates because I enjoy them. Some people engage in debates to be right, and when the two types meet, sometimes it doesn't end up pretty. Ask my ex-wife about that sometime. I actually was going to start out with an anti-revision angle until I realized that my multi-hundred gigabyte collection of Star Wars fanedits was calling me a hypocrite. It may be worth noting that I'm not actually against H-Scenes in principal. I just think that most that I've encountered are poorly written/translated even in otherwise well written VNs. Saya no Uta is the biggest exception to this I've seen. I think that either the authors or the translators(can't say which since I can't read Japanese) should go read some erotica for a while before creating(or translating) these scenes. As it is, they mostly seem to range between dull and comical.

Don't really have any beef with the first two except to say that you perhaps misunderstood my assertion about critique. You claimed that only the creators of media can decide what does and does not work in it, but there is an entire profession dedicated specifically to pointing out what does and does not work in created media. That being the case, I have to reject out of hand the assertion that only the author knows what works in something he created. Hell, in some cases(*coughstarwarscough*), the author seems to have no idea what does and doesn't work. Otherwise, you're just stating your own viewpoint, and I happen to agree with you on it for the most part(even if I don't personally enjoy most H-Scenes). Onto the third part... no one is censoring simply by not giving you what you want. The original work is there, it's accessible, and no one is stopping another group from doing a more complete translation. Revisionism already tends to have a negative connotation(though not always deservedly so) and fits what you are describing fairly well. As Wikipedia puts it: . I'm not trying to say that I want such revisions. I'm just trying to point out that no actual censorship would be taking place, nor would it even be possible without direct intervention from either the government or the content owners.

Point 1) Which is why I said that I wouldn't personally do it. However, doing so would not be censorship. If you do not approve of someone else's efforts, you are still free to learn Japanese and read the original or even bring out your own, more comprehensive translation. If censorship were in effect, that would not be the case. The word you are looking for isn't censorship, but revision. It's not my cup of tea either, but as I said before, I'm not the one putting in the effort. Point 2) That is not the case, obviously. If it were, you would also have to take into account that the original creators intended for their work to be read in Japanese. Someone else decided that English would be a fun language to read it in too. By the way, you just effectively declared the entire career of critique invalid. If only the authors could judge the worth of their works, every movie would be 5 out of 5. Point 3) Someone mentioned it before, but you can't claim that only the potential projects you dislike are invalid for that reason. You either care about distribution rights and only read officially localized works(or read them in their native language), or you don't and that argument is just a strawman.

Sure thing. Any other opinions out there that so offend your world view as to make voicing them grounds for your disapproval? I'd hate for you to have to confront people liking things you like for reasons other than your own.

You may have noticed earlier in my post that I made mention of that very fact. Some VNs would not be complete without their H-Scenes. Sex is tied into the very core of the plot. But the fact that you pointed that out invalidates your very argument. You just looked at a VN that was briefly mentioned in a discussion and immediately were able to judge the sex as a vital part of the plot. If you felt the justified in mentioning that, then it shouldn't be a huge logical leap to realize that other people are just as intelligent as you and can make the same judgement in the opposite direction. I don't think I'm blowing any minds by saying that some H-Scenes are not added in any way that is vital to their VNs plot. Nor, for anyone that has read this thread, should it come as any surprise that there is a fairly large demographic of VN fans that feel that the same H-Scenes enhance the story's enjoyment regardless. Since they are so easily skipped, I still feel that they should stay for those that like them. But then, I'm not the one putting in the unpaid hours. I'm repeating myself, but I do feel this is the most important point I can make: amateur translators are not employees. They certainly aren't your employees. As the people deciding to make a hobby of translating, they - and only they - are the ones who decide what they wish to translate and how. In deciding to translate something, one is making a judgement on what is and is not worth one's time. In every step of translating, one is making judgements on how that translation is best conducted, what style of voice best fits a character, how best to re-tool jokes for a foreign audience(or if you are going to just translate them directly), etc. The decision to edit is just one step further. Maybe that's a step too far for you, and that's fine. But there entire communities devoted to fanedits of films. There are even more devoted to modifying games. There is nothing especially sacred about visual novels as a medium that makes the very idea of editing less a valid option than in other media. Just as many people prefer the original films to fanedits, you are not in any way wrong for wanting unedited translations of VNs. But that doesn't make you right about dictating what others should or should not do with their hobby.

Unless you are getting paid for your efforts, being a translator is not a job at all. It's a hobby. And as a hobbyist, you are absolutely in a position to judge what and how you engage in your hobby. It is easy to forget that while many unofficial translations are of professional quality, they are, in fact, the work of amateurs who are doing this on their own time. The people doing this have no responsibility to translate a work at all, much less to do so to your liking or standards. I have to say that I am somewhat disappointed in the way you chose to close your argument. It is one thing to disagree with someone's argument. It is altogether another to dismiss people who do not share your opinion as immature. That is not the way to hold a civilized discussion.

Since I've caught up on the manga, I guess I'll weigh in. 1. Lala. The perfect foil to Rito. He's hyper-aware, and she's oblivious to the effect she has on him. He is painfully awkward in sexual situations and she's innocently uninhibited. Pretty much the perfect match for this sort of comedy. 2. Momo. The girl with the plan. Just as uninhibited as her sister, but perfectly aware of what she's doing to Rito. Entertaining to read, but I'm glad that Lala got to him first. 3. Yami. With her it doesn't really have anything to do with her relationship to Rito. She just has the best backstory and probably the deepest character development(of course she was cut whole cloth from another manga, so she's had time for the author to develop her).

I'm of the opinion that anything is fine so long as you don't misrepresent yourself. I tend not to like H-Scenes unless they are really bound up into the story(e.g. Muv-Luv doesn't really need them, but School Days would need an extensive re-write to get around their absence), but they are easily skipped, so if I was translating, I'd keep them in for sake of completion. Censorship is bad, but that's not what this discussion is about. Censorship is suppression by an external agency. If the exclusion of H-Scenes was mandated by the government, or by some other agency capable of enforcing such a decision, that would be censorship. But someone that is actually doing the work deciding what does and doesn't go into the project is not censorship, but rather editing. There is a difference. Take, for example, the Star Wars prequels. Some people liked them; a lot of people did not. There are people that have gone to great effort to create their own edits of the movies to improve on the experience(at least in their eyes, anyway). One such edit did as much as they could to greatly reduce the number of scenes that Jar-Jar was in. That was not an act of censorship, because the creator of the edit was the one doing the work. No one told him he had to(and if you just really like Jar-Jar, no one is telling you you have to watch it). The thing is, in order to accomplish the goal of the OP, you have to do more than simply not translate. You have to actually remove the scenes themselves, or you will still have an eroge, simply with some scenes still in Japanese. So rather than censorship, this sort of effort would be more akin to the practice of game modification, a rather celebrated practice among PC gaming enthusiasts. Of course, the important thing is that if you are going to modify a game(or a VN), it is vitally important that you label your project for what it is. If I go to download a translation of Saya no Uta and end up with a version that cuts out all the gorn, I will have something completely different than what i was looking for(not to mention a remarkably short VN). On the other hand, if I see an announcement for "Saya no Uta [ALL AGES CUT]," I'll know ahead of time that this is not the download I want. I understand how some people wouldn't want this practice to become widespread, especially since translation groups are less likely to pick up a project that someone else already translated. But aside from this being an improbable outcome, it isn't really anyone's call other than the people working on the project. Trying to tell someone how to engage in their hobby is a good way to get them to stop sharing their results. And as long as they're honest about their work, what does it really matter?

I haven't really watched many romance anime other than Ai Yori Aoshi, but because of the subtle and gradual build up that leads into it, I'll go with Kurisu's last moment confession in Steins;Gate. The timing of it really hit me in the gut.

Just read through To Love-Ru and caught up to current translated To Love-Ru Darkness. I'm generally not a fan of this genre, but this is absolutely hilarious. I can't decide which one I like better. I preferred the relatively toned down ecchi in the first title, and I think it was probably funnier, but Darkness seems to have a more focused narrative, which is something I appreciate. Otherwise, I'm reading Knights of Sidonia now that I've gotten into the anime. I like both so far, and while there have been alterations in the adaptation, I don't yet feel that it hurts my enjoyment of the anime like reading other mangas have done in the past.

Either these topics just got merged(most likely?), or you just went insane and linked us to the topic HS posted in. I'll admit that the latter option would be more entertaining.

The first anime I watched that I knew was anime was Record of the Lodoss War. Prior to that I had seen Robotech and Voltron, both shows that took footage from anime but couldn't be bothered to actually translate the dialogue and so made up their own plots.

It's fine. He just forgot to add the special effects. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08mr8bkN_Nk The only live action ones i ever tried to watch were the Rurouni Kenshin movie and the Liar Game show. Wasn't a fan of either. Sad thing is that I could see Liar Game being turned into pretty good show even live action as there isn't really anything too overblown about it. But they would have needed to hire some people that can act to pull it off.

I think that TSFs are mostly on par with early UC era Mobile Suits, albeit with a maneuverability advantage on par with stuff from the later series. A match between the two would likely depend on whether Minovsky particles are deterred by a TSF's anti-laser coating or not. On the other hand, the only sure way to avoid catastrophic damage in either series is to not get hit, so the maneuverability advantage may be telling. Then again, I don't think espers compare favorably to newtypes, so there's that.

Here's what I got my daughter for her 5th birthday: One day she'll be old enough to read the visual novel.