Karakkan

Alright, I'll go on record and admit I saw your post out of context of the rest and assumed you were another "hurr durr no sex = ruining game forever" idiots that were plaguing these kinds of threads when the announcement was first released. So I'll apologize for tone on that, especially since going back you actually have a level head about it. I'm fairly certain I've gotten into arguments with people over this stuff in this exact thread in the earlier comments. Although opinions ≠ free from criticism, especially when there was the wave of people who thought exactly like that in your post. If someone wants to don that idiot cap, they should be taken down a peg or two. It's just frustrating to see that stupid misinformation brought up over and over again, especially since it was so prevalent back in the first announcement and people got downright vile about it. Like, if this fails for Sekai then we might as well kiss any chance of having a real wave of interest in official translations goodbye. If GnK, an extremely popular and acclaimed work from the genre can't break into the English market, why would smaller companies even bother attempting it when one of the best couldn't do it? Especially when there are practically no changes short of the hentai plus additional scenes.

...Except we've already seen images from the Vita-version of GnK, which had a CG of Sachi doing the back-washing with her boobs. So you're kind of really, really wrong there. Might want to try a bit of fact-checking before you go off and make assumptions like they're the truth. EDIT: Yeah, totally all-ages and not sexual at all. - Actually NSFW, by the by.

Having just finished this, I can't help but wonder if having a voiced protagonist would have helped add more to the story? This is coming off of Ayakashibito, so I may be a bit biased, but by having Soushichi voiced really made me get into his story, in a VN where it was very much "these are the characters and not self-inserts, enjoy the tale we have weaved for you". With all of Akihito's "gentle kingdom" this and "the color red" that, we clearly aren't supposed to be imagining ourselves in his shoes (especially the bits where he starts veering off the path into Really?ville). Otherwise, I was pleased with it and enjoyed Comyu. Love the songs in it and some great comedic timing (gods, Izawa being a big Yuuna fan just puts a dumb smile on my face when I think about it), which make up for the protagonist not being the most likeable person (seriously, you're going to have sex with the girl who literally just saw her only reason for living brutalized beyond recognition? I'm fine with the manwhoring, it's not a perfect world and he's not a perfect character, but even then I had to raise an eyebrow at that). Also shocked at how quickly Mayuki's route became my favorite, since I tend to avoid or force myself through Loli routes. Overall, it's not the best VN I've ever read, but by no means is it the worst. I'll probably read through through it again some time in the future after I do some selective ctrl-skipping to cut out the fat.

Yeah, I'm not that far into it admittedly, but I'm finding that I'm preferring and looking more forward to the chibi cut-out scenes/skits than I am the usual conversation, because there they actually portray a good deal of emotion (and are often quite funny, which is always a plus in my books).

Ding ding ding! This is why people comparing it to the Moenovel fiasco are fools perpetrating false information. Sekai didn't cut or edit shit; they're using the 17+ version of the game released for Vita last year so that it can be distributed through digital platforms like steam (which would not allow an AO game to be released, which is what an eroge with sex scenes would be classified as).

You'd be more in the right if this was like Moenovel and the whole heart had wings situation. But the fact is, there's an 'all-ages' version (which will probably still be rated M anyways) already out as well. So it's not like you're going to be getting a butchered VN. Hell, your concern of a 'great piece of art being ruined' is actually the opposite, since this new version would have given the writers the opportunity to touch up and improve what they had already written. In short, this is the equivalent of KiraKira having both an H and non-H version, we're just getting the non-H. Is it disappointing? Maybe a bit, yeah. But you're getting the story and characters you love localized officially, and then additional stuff added on top of it. Celebrate that, because acting like this is what Moenovel did is frankly, idiotic. And reinforcing that frankly poor comparison is really, really bad. Because if we as a community don't help make the release of a well-received and awarded VN like Grisaia viable to Frontwing, why would any other company want to officially localize their own games when the best of the best couldn't make it?

No gender left unscarredbehind

In that though, there's a definite disconnect between what was written and what was translated. A route's contents entirely changed, any and all remotely sexual humor cut out (let's be real here, the change of jokes involving breasts to things involving 'eyes' was so bad that even I picked up on that they actually were talking about breasts), hell they even edited cgs that had direct contact with their kisses. I can't imagine that this was a good translation in-line with the views the authors had with the original (or even their own personal re-write of all-ages), even if they share a parent company. There was some disconnect on some level, I have difficulty believing that the decisions MoeNovel made are the same ones Pulltop would have with the result given to us and the utter lack of a proper response to the criticisms levelled at them. Or at least I hope that's the case, I really hope it's not wistful thinking on my part and that there wasn't good communication. What will really put the above to the test is in September when it's being ported to PS3 (according to VNDB), meaning that the Japanese VN will finally have their own all-ages version straight from the horse's mouth. Hopefully someone will be kind enough to go through it then for a comparison and we will be able to get a proper answer on if Moenovel screwed up, or we collectively had our chain yanked rather cruelly by Pulltop.

I kind of ride between the two of them, with more of a slant towards the flow side (although with an extreme stance against outright removals/changes, as you can tell from here). Obviously a translation won't be completely perfect; editors wouldn't exist if that was the case. But you can modify a line or scene in a way that still conveys the true meaning of it without condemning that vision. Case in point, you have good translations where they make the flow better, and bad translations where they remove that meaning, a la Konosora. Again, I feel I've portrayed myself a little poorly here. Konosora is a bit of a bitter ember for me as a symbol of 'bad translation' and doing exactly what I have issues with. I love Sekien no Inganock, but I'm not going to rake Ixrec over the coals because he couldn't keep it in iambic pantameter. I would however be upset if he changed the relationship between Ati and Gii, or changed the scene with Petrevkova (or however you spell her name, the mer-lady in the third-last chapter) because he thought a scene with her boobs out was gross and didn't want others to see it. My main issue is that H-scenes can sometimes be important for certain plot-related objects, and to just dismiss them and write something different for them because a translator doesn't like them sets a bad precedence. I'm probably just getting worked up and arguing too strongly :/. I'm against extremes and cutting things out completely. And if a company releases an all-ages version, that's awesome. It means a wider audience can reach it, great. I don't have an issue with that because it's the writers/company/people far more involved with the VN than we could ever hope to be are making the decision to do so. The translator isn't part of that decision, so I don't think the translator should make that decision on their own.

Bingo, it's 2:30 so that might not have come across as well as intended. I have the utmost respect for people who translate, they do something I never could. That doesn't mean I respect the translators who cherrypick and edit the work as though it is their own in order to have it align with their own personal beliefs. They don't and never will know the characters or story as well as the people in the desk writing up the drafts, so they shouldn't toy with it, but focus on bringing that original vision to light as closely and accurately as possible.

Obviously it's an oversimplification for the point of the argument, I'm not saying that a translator is a soulless machine. Obviously quality can be different and interpretations can occur, otherwise there wouldn't be the whole Moogy/Ixrec issue with Dra Koi, or AIR having two different patches from two different teams. But you can't look at a Russian copy of Game of Thrones, and the English copy of it, and say that the Russian translator has the same knowledge of it as George R. R. Martin. You can't say that they can change the events of the series, because he isn't the writer. His job is to take an epic story over a war for the throne in both the loud and subtle areas of the land, and display that in a manner the Russian population can understand. Obviously there is care and affection for the story otherwise they wouldn't do it. I've said that multiple times, these translators obviously care, otherwise they wouldn't do it. But does that give the Russian translator the right or knowledge to remove or change things from the story because they just plain don't like it? No. So why should it be any different here? For the record, I liked your post because we agree mostly on the second half. There's a point of view and an appreciation for the work, absolutely. God knows that I love Fate/Stay Night's Gilgamesh beause of the complexity he has across the various stories Type Moon writes. Hell, I'll even admit to roleplaying him, and doing extensive research into his character to do it to the best of my abilities. But never in a million years, no matter how strong my grasp of the language, would I change the flaws in him. The fact that he can be pretty rapey in F/SN can be uncomfortable, but that's how it is intended. If I was to translate it (or anyone else in my mind), they should not 'fix' that issue with him because it is his character, written by Nasu. No matter how much I love the character, I'm not Nasu, and will never understand him as well as he does, so I can't willingly change that character flaw because it makes him 'better', because then it stops being Gilgamesh and Nasu's story involving him, and starts instead to become "translator Karakkan's fanfiction on why Gilgamesh is way better than Nasu could have ever made". So again, a translator isn't the writer dictating the flow and plot of a story. They are a mirror with an extremely good Google Translate that helps convey that story as best they can while staying true to the source in another language. Don't have to be soulless to do that.

And welcome to a debate, where both sides are arguing different opinions. Guess what? I think your opinion is wrong. You can sit there and tell me all about how you 'previously explained it' and that 'i already told you that they're authors'. I defended my argument against yours, and brought up counterpoints against it. Hell I'll bring up another one: by that logic, Ayakashibito was written by the Ate the Moon team since they're the 'authors' of the translation, not the people at Propeller. Or to go back to GoT, that the hypothetical french 'author' is the person who wrote it, not GRRM. They aren't the author, what gives them the right to pretend to be it? They don't and will never know or understand the characters like the author, why should they change the story in their place? A translator is a medium between the author and the translated work, not a replacement. A replacement shouldn't change an original text to suit his or her opinions, but instead reflect the original intent in a new language. A Translator isn't an author, but a mirror mixed with a far, far, far superior google translate.

TOPIC: Translating: Is it ok to cut H scenes? ANSWER: If you respect the work, no. You are not the author, and if you put a shred of value into the story they wrote, you will take the bad with the good. Take your china tea and dump it in the nearest river, it's relevant to my argument and you should face it like a proper debator, not try to ignore it and hope it goes away. That's a whole 'nother argument for a whole 'nother thread, one that I won't participate in as I don't have the background knowledge to support my position on it fully. In this circumstance, I assume that this hypothetical translation and its translators have respect for the work since y'know, they're taking the time to translate it so that others can enjoy it. That's really the crux of my argument. I was really excited for Konosora to come out, and then we got the Moenovel mess. I personally don't know the Japanese language, otherwise I wouldn't be in here and instead laughing about all the other amazing eroge I can read to my heart's content. But even I could tell there were things wrong with it, and it only got more disappointing when more knowledgable people confirmed it. I want to love the story that the author poured their work into, with the ero I can skip through if I'm not up for it and the darker themes it may have, as it was intended (well as far as the translator can push it, not everything jumps over in a translation. And like others have mentioned, some just don't want to share, which is disappointing). If someone wants to read a light-hearted story, go read one. You don't watch Game of Thrones because it's pretty, or read The Dark Tower series because you want a happy ending. I don't want to read a hack-job version that a translator and editor collaborated on, because it's not their story to modify in such a manner. (Geez, I hope there's no punishment for double-posts.)

I am calling ten kinds of bullshit on that. A translator translates, they do not write. The release of Katawa Shoujo is authors coming together to create a project, the translation of Clannad/Muv Luv/Fate/Steins;Gate/all the other big games from Japan, is translators doing their best to give the most accurate interpretation of the author's work in its totality. If Moogy or Ixrec or another translator came up and claimed that they were the writers for Demonbane/Muv Luv/anything else, they would be called out on it in an instant. They did not write it, they translated it. Two very, very different things. But I guess from your argument, the "authors" over at 4Kidz have done no harm or made no errors with their "writing" of One Piece. Because it absolutely is the vision the real authors had when they made the show. EDIT: In terms of Ayakashibito, if the author wants to change it to be all-ages, fine, good for them. But if you expect me to sit here and agree that any translator (hell, anyone besides the writer) should change , and put their deluded fanfiction in its place, than you're out of your mind.

Maybe this is because I'm just a casual lurker here on the boards, but I don't recall ever seeing huge bash threads about someone removing H-scenes from eroge. The golden exception of course would be Konosora, although that is extremely justified considering the butchering Moenovel did to the source material (and an entire route especially) in order to make it 'work'. Still waiting patiently on the fan translation to go through and fix that right up. I'll use the same argument that I used during the whole Konosora debacle for my opinion on this: Incest So we have a hypothetical France, whose populace is clamoring to get their hands on this awesome series called 'Game of Thrones' translated into their native language, so that they can enjoy it to their fullest. The editors however feel that the relationship between Jamie and Cersei is just too graphic for their audiences. So they decide to change it, write it so that it's something different. Yaaaay sensible values preserved! But at the cost of the Game of Thrones no longer being the Game of Thrones. Their relationship and the consequences of it are what sets off the entire series, which means that the editors now have to write another reason for Bran to get booted off of the tower, why Joffery is such a shithole, etc. etc. Imagine if that had happened, and one version of the book got butchered because some of the content in it was deemed 'offensive' and released to another population. Especially with how popular it is, there would be huge outrage involving it. Which is why there was a huge outrage with Konosora: one of the routes was thrown into a washing machine and turned around and around and around until the original context of the route was completely wiped out, and new, lesser version was created in its place. But most importantly, and the key point to the argument here, is that you are not the author, you are the translator. You do not decide if these two characters are going to have sex, it is the author of their story. Your only job is to convey the meaning and message of the original author to the absolute best of your abilities. Is the sex scene always romantic? Nope. Hell, I'm reading Ayakashibito and it's not all sunshine and butterflies in there, but there are some scenes that are very plot-relevant and give context to the characters, and no fan-translator with any respect for the work should ever change it and modify the author's work in order to suit their own personal taste. If the author/company releases an all-ages version though, whole different ball game. Take KiraKira for example. There's H-scenes in there, anyone who translates it who respects the author and their writing would be disgraceful to edit it out. But if the author, decides he or she wants to make an all-ages version, then happy days and good for them. Why? Because it is their story, not yours or mine. Only they should have the right to change it in such a way. If you don't like it, fine, all the power to you. No one is forcing you to read about the deep descriptive connection between mollusks and intercourse in Tsukihime. Pass it over because it's not your cup of tea. If you don't like it and try to force that viewpoint onto others, taking the work and changing it in a way to suit yourself and your own views? You have no respect for the authors or the stories they worked hard to create.

It helped that it was being translated by Staircase Subs, the guys who did Hoshizora no Memoria, which was well received by many VN readers (especially if the fandisc thread is anything to go by, on top of the fact that one of the characters is currently hanging out in the Fuwanovel forum's logo). The drama definitely brings some attention to it, but there was already attention on it to begin with.

Pretty much that, yeah. If he has the files and isn't going to share them, all we can do is wait and see what he's going to do with them. Whether it's finish/release a final product or just sit on it and laugh at the anger it brings up until some other individual/group restarts the translation on their own terms.

I'm excited to play this, although it is mainly due to the fact that I finally get to read the VN with the character I dubbed Captain Fuck-Yeah Even if he exists just for a scene, I can be happy.

https://fuwanovel.net/novels/comyu-kuroi-ryuu-to-yasashii-oukoku It says so right on the page for it, this isn't a full release patch, but a partial patch. It seems unfinished because it is unfinished.

No, just... No. Even if Altered Fable is just more Extra (which I am admittedly in the minority for enjoying, but different strokes for different folks), it deserves respect in its translation. If you're that desperate for more, do the machine translation for yourself and keep it to yourself. Like the person above me says, you release a half-baked shitty engrish patch using some dumb machine that can't grasp the intricacies of the language, places like /r/visualnovels and here (and likely most other VN discussion areas on the internet) are going to flay you alive for it.