Down Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 With huge oversaturation, most series rarely sell enough to cover the production costs and fees from the TV aren't enough for the studios to grow. I have to admit, I'm worried those trends will continue to affect the whole industry untill some sort of a disaster will struck the market and force both the creators and consumers to change their attitude. It's not that likely to happen. The money necesssary to produce anime comes from huge companies like Kodansha, Kadokawa or Aniplex. And those company make their profit through lots of other means than plain disc sales, mainly by doing adaptations in order to give sales boost to the original material (and it tends to work pretty well) and by selling a whole range of derivative products. Original anime are spearheaded by staff names that sell like Urobuchi (even when they only have a minor role) and aggressively advertised in order to make them big (that's the Aniplex way of doing things). The problem is obviously that every company that has a place in the production committee of the anime can have influence on a wide range of things, which leads to decisions that are financially efficient but not creatively efficient. I do think there's a lack of people that actually have the skills necessary to write a coherent series in the industry, but it's not the only factor that leads to a decrease in overall quality. Anime still makes tons of money. Disc sales are kind of on a declining trend but the actual money that's being made is far more than just that. It just doesn't really go in the pocket of the studios (who are not even always in the production committees) and even less in the pocket of the animators. Narcosis 1 Quote
Soulless Watcher Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 It's kinda funny, the same reason I dislike the main heroines is the same reason I dislike most of the anime I hate. It's not necessarily because they are bad characters/anime it's just compared to the sideloveinterests/lesserknownanime they pale in comparision. Although there are plenty of anime in which I still like the "main" love interest (Gurren Lagann, Kara no Kyoukai, Hayate no Gotoku, Monogatari, Zetsubou Sensei (heh kinda), Kemono no Souja Erin). Saddly though there are much less anime in which the final love interest is unpredictable, the only anime that pops up off the top of my head is Kokoro Connect. Quote
Nosebleed Posted May 10, 2015 Author Posted May 10, 2015 It's kinda funny, the same reason I dislike the main heroines is the same reason I dislike most of the anime I hate. It's not necessarily because they are bad characters/anime it's just compared to the sideloveinterests/lesserknownanime they pale in comparision. Although there are plenty of anime in which I still like the "main" love interest (Gurren Lagann, Kara no Kyoukai, Hayate no Gotoku, Monogatari, Zetsubou Sensei (heh kinda), Kemono no Souja Erin). Saddly though there are much less anime in which the final love interest is unpredictable, the only anime that pops up off the top of my head is Kokoro Connect. And Kokoro Connect was one anime that in my opinion chose the wrong heroine in the end and I actually supported the main one. Fuck me right? Quote
Kenshin_sama Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 And Kokoro Connect was one anime that in my opinion chose the wrong heroine in the end and I actually supported the main one. Fuck me right? So you're an Iori shipper too? Well, damn, you're the only other person I've met that shares my opinion on that. Every single one of my MAL buddies was an Inaba shipper, and I just thought it sheer rubbish. Imo, Iori had a much more touching backstory and I felt she was more deserving of Taichi. Sure, Inaba has her charm as a tsundere, and did have a few cute scenes, but it still didn't sit right with me. At least Michi Random gave us a really nice story with Iori as the focal point (I actually liked it more than the main series). Quote
edwd2 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 No, if you've been watching anime long enough, you know what I'm talking about. There is a lot of mediocre shows in any year, but that ratio is definitely increasing, the chance of finding a good anime in every season now is as slim as none. Not only that, some genres such as Josei are disappearing, as we see fewer mature or creative settings, fewer original or experimental anime, and more generic high school stuff or continuation/remakes of existing ones. The only good year since the start of this decade is 2011 where anime made a comeback with F/Z, S;G, Madoka, Usagi Drop, etc. but other than that year, it's mostly a downhill ride. The anime audience is obviously changing as well, a show like SAO won't nearly have as much weighted popularity if it aired a decade ago, but its hard to blame it on them or the industry in this cycle. Take the best shows this season, spring last year, and spring 2006. Spring 2006: - Aria the Natural (Continuation) - Black Lagoon - Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni - Gintama - Ouran High School Host Club - Nana - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - xxxHolic Spring 2014: - Mushishi Zoku Shou (Continuation) - Black Bullet? Mahouka? Spring 2015: - Fate Stay Night UBW (Remake) - Gintama (Continuation) - Free? Nisekoi? Nagato Yuki? Deny all you want, but it's a sad truth... Quote
Nosebleed Posted May 10, 2015 Author Posted May 10, 2015 >Best shows >Totally an objective measurement Back to the main point though, this is not a thread regarding the degradation of the anime industry but about main heroines and side heroines and tendencies to lean torwards side heroines more than main ones. Let's keep it on topic~ So you're an Iori shipper too? Well, damn, you're the only other person I've met that shares my opinion on that. Every single one of my MAL buddies was an Inaba shipper, and I just thought it sheer rubbish. Imo, Iori had a much more touching backstory and I felt she was more deserving of Taichi. Sure, Inaba has her charm as a tsundere, and did have a few cute scenes, but it still didn't sit right with me. At least Michi Random gave us a really nice story with Iori as the focal point (I actually liked it more than the main series). Well I don't completely disregard Inaba as a heroine, I understand she made progress with Taichi, but I think it was really abrupt how they got together, it made no logical following. It was just like "oh okay I like you now and not the girl I've liked for the past 10 episodes lolol" and I had a lot of mixed feelings on that. Quote
Soulless Watcher Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 No, if you've been watching anime long enough, you know what I'm talking about. There is a lot of mediocre shows in any year, but that ratio is definitely increasing, the chance of finding a good anime in every season now is as slim as none. Not only that, some genres such as Josei are disappearing, as we see fewer mature or creative settings, fewer original or experimental anime, and more generic high school stuff or continuation/remakes of existing ones. The only good year since the start of this decade is 2011 where anime made a comeback with F/Z, S;G, Madoka, Usagi Drop, etc. but other than that year, it's mostly a downhill ride. The anime audience is obviously changing as well, a show like SAO won't nearly have as much weighted popularity if it aired a decade ago, but its hard to blame it on them or the industry in this cycle. Take the best shows this season, spring last year, and spring 2006. Spring 2006: - Aria the Natural (Continuation) - Black Lagoon - Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni - Gintama - Ouran High School Host Club - Nana - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - xxxHolic Spring 2014: - Mushishi Zoku Shou (Continuation) - Black Bullet? Mahouka? Spring 2015: - Fate Stay Night UBW (Remake) - Gintama (Continuation) - Free? Nisekoi? Nagato Yuki? Deny all you want, but it's a sad truth... Well that list isn't biased at all and skewed. If you truely wish to convience anyone you are going to have to list out all the anime in the past decade and their ratings on animelist and if you don't trust the masses on what is "good". Than you are simply stating that you, personally, don't care for the new anime that comes out nowadays. Quote
hsmsful Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Well for me , I always cheered for side heroines because I just feel bad when they don't grt the mc or have no hope since it has been set in stone when the show starred that the mc will end up with the main heroine. The only times I cheered for main heroines was when there were only them (I guess? Like fmab) but other than that I would go for the side heroines possibly the ones who have loved the mc longer. As for every year, yeah anime is getting lamer, more cliche but as long as Japanese otakus are satisfied and buying figurines, blu rays, watching anime when airing and so on, I don't think this situation will change anytime soon but it's not that bad, every year there are 10-20 anime worth of being watched. Quote
Clephas Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 For some reason, about ninety percent of the main heroines in moege are airheads, tsundere, or idiots... Narcosis 1 Quote
Getsuya Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I can't fall in love with a girl who would fall in love with an anime/VN protag. The less a girl throws herself at the head of the harem, the more I like her. Quote
Kenshin_sama Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 I'll keep this short since it's kinda derailing the topic. If you wanna go more into more detail with this, send me a PM. Not sure if this says anything or not, but I've been watching anime since the mid 90s, and I'm still not convinced that this list isn't unfairly biased. P.S.: Free was an awesome anime with really well-written characters. Why the question mark? P.P.S.: I didn't think the UBW remake was all that good from a directional standpoint. No, if you've been watching anime long enough, you know what I'm talking about. There is a lot of mediocre shows in any year, but that ratio is definitely increasing, the chance of finding a good anime in every season now is as slim as none. Not only that, some genres such as Josei are disappearing, as we see fewer mature or creative settings, fewer original or experimental anime, and more generic high school stuff or continuation/remakes of existing ones. The only good year since the start of this decade is 2011 where anime made a comeback with F/Z, S;G, Madoka, Usagi Drop, etc. but other than that year, it's mostly a downhill ride. The anime audience is obviously changing as well, a show like SAO won't nearly have as much weighted popularity if it aired a decade ago, but its hard to blame it on them or the industry in this cycle. Take the best shows this season, spring last year, and spring 2006. Spring 2006: - Aria the Natural (Continuation) - Black Lagoon - Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni - Gintama - Ouran High School Host Club - Nana - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - xxxHolic Spring 2014: - Mushishi Zoku Shou (Continuation) - Black Bullet? Mahouka? Spring 2015: - Fate Stay Night UBW (Remake) - Gintama (Continuation) - Free? Nisekoi? Nagato Yuki? Deny all you want, but it's a sad truth... Well I don't completely disregard Inaba as a heroine, I understand she made progress with Taichi, but I think it was really abrupt how they got together, it made no logical following. It was just like "oh okay I like you now and not the girl I've liked for the past 10 episodes lolol" and I had a lot of mixed feelings on that. I see what you mean. Darn, I thought I found a friend. Welp, that's okay, I'll just keep moving on and continue to admire Iori from the shadows. On another note, I sometimes wonder if Dog Days will ever betray the main pairing. Probably the biggest reason I haven't watched anything after season 1 yet. But for this series, the main pairing really has some fire going. Millhiore is a sweetheart, and the interactions between her and the protagonist (still can't remember his name) are seriously cute. Another show with a nice main pairing is Acchi Kocchi. I wish more anime would follow this kind of formula, but at least they do show up on occasion. Edit: Oh, my mistake. I'm so bad with misinterpretations. >.< Quote
Nosebleed Posted May 11, 2015 Author Posted May 11, 2015 I'd also like to mention that, when I actually do like the main heroine, they are often characters that tend to have less of a focus than other heroines that appear later, although in the end they're still the main. So I guess they kind of revert to a state of side heroine temporarly...? I'd quickly point out Zero no Tsukaima as a prime example of this where Louise is often thrown in the background because of some other girls that appear later but in the end she and Saito are better together after all is said and done. I see what you mean. Darn, I thought I found a friend. Welp, that's okay, I'll just keep moving on and continue to admire Iori from the shadows. I just said I preferred Iori over Inaba, my remark was how annoyed I was over the fact Inaba won and not Iori, it was illogical in my view, I supported Iori the most. Quote
Stray Cat Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 Honestly it's a case by case basis. More the qualities of the girl than her chance of success. Quote
Andreas Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 When reminiscing, in most cases I think I like the side heroines best because they are side heroines. Watching them struggle pointlessly to get the protagonist is very enjoyable. It's probably one of those times where you want what you can't have. Because they are side heroines and therefore do not have any chance of getting the MC, I can like them. Not always the case though. Sometimes they are genuinly better than the main heroine. Kokoro Connect and White Album 2 were animes I enjoyed because of their deviation from the formula. The ability to choose which heroine you want, is the main reason I enjoy VNs. Especially when the industry makes a VN out of the anime which gives you the ability to choose your favourite character. Examples being Toradora and OreImo. Although rare, these types are the VNs I enjoy the most, and wish were more popular. Quote
Soulless Watcher Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 The ability to choose which heroine you want, is the main reason I enjoy VNs. Especially when the industry makes a VN out of the anime which gives you the ability to choose your favourite character. Examples being Toradora and OreImo. Although rare, these types are the VNs I enjoy the most, and wish were more popular. They actually arn't that rare at all, if a harem anime popular, nowadays there usually is a vn adaptation, it's just they arn't translated because isoing is hard. Although, at least in my experience, how much you enjoy them is directly proportional to how much you like the anime. I found Oreimo to be meh and Toradora to be eh; and felt the same way about the vns. There really is never any creativity, originality, or substance for most of the routes. It is kinda obvious that they are cashing in on the series by enticing fans with the novelty of having their waifu be chosen instead of the main heroine. Quote
Andreas Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 They actually arn't that rare at all, if a harem anime popular, nowadays there usually is a vn adaptation, it's just they arn't translated because isoing is hard. Although, at least in my experience, how much you enjoy them is directly proportional to how much you like the anime. I found Oreimo to be meh and Toradora to be eh; and felt the same way about the vns. There really is never any creativity, originality, or substance for most of the routes. It is kinda obvious that they are cashing in on the series by enticing fans with the novelty of having their waifu be chosen instead of the main heroine. Well, maybe I just think they are rare because I watch all the harem animes horrible or not coming out every year . It might just be in my head, but I don't think there are that many untranslated either. Atleast to the proportion of animes I found enjoyable (I probably rate the standard harem way higher than normal). Indeed it is probably proportional to how much you enjoyed the anime, I personally liked both Toradora and OreImo, so getting to choose your own heroine was lovely. Quote
Soulless Watcher Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 Well, maybe I just think they are rare because I watch all the harem animes horrible or not coming out every year . It might just be in my head, but I don't think there are that many untranslated either. Atleast to the proportion of animes I found enjoyable (I probably rate the standard harem way higher than normal). Indeed it is probably proportional to how much you enjoyed the anime, I personally liked both Toradora and OreImo, so getting to choose your own heroine was lovely. I'll just leave these here if you want to look at them.... https://vndb.org/v12630 https://vndb.org/v12178 https://vndb.org/v1985 https://vndb.org/v15593 https://vndb.org/v16921 https://vndb.org/v17099 https://vndb.org/v16566 https://vndb.org/v10109 https://vndb.org/v13152 Quote
Andreas Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 I'll just leave these here if you want to look at them.... https://vndb.org/v12630 https://vndb.org/v12178 https://vndb.org/v1985 https://vndb.org/v15593 https://vndb.org/v16921 https://vndb.org/v17099 https://vndb.org/v16566 https://vndb.org/v10109 https://vndb.org/v13152 Oh, I was unaware that there was a Nyaruko and an Anohana game. Thanks Quote
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