What are you playing?

[alpacaman]

So I finished the YU-NO remake. My main takeaway is that it was a poor decision to do a shot for shot copy (minus the h-scenes) imo. Not in the sense that the things that they reworked are necessarily bad, although the visuals certainly aren't perfect. I haven't played the original so I have no nostalgia for its artstyle or voice acting. But rather there is a disconnect between its updated packaging and its script and gameplay system which are both barely able to hide their age. For example the pacing, story progression and plot construction are pretty weird from today's standards. They totally made sense when the original came out. The multi-route mystery was a novelty at the time and I imagine employing a point-and-click adventure gameplay mechanics for progression probably made the most sense at the time but in a 2019 release the pacing feels excrutiatingly slow at time when you have to click different places on screen to get lots of tiny pieces of information, especially as most of what you learn doesn't really have an impact on the true route. I think a reworked script that employed a more modern VN-route structure and got rid of some its more dated aspects could have worked wonders for a YU-NO remake and made it worthwhile for both fans of the original and new readers. As for the remake we actually got, just upscaling the original art and adding the QOL features to the gameplay would probably have carried better results imo.

The current Umineko discussion has made me kind of want to re-read it next. Originally I planned to wait for Umineko Gold, but that project sadly seems to be dead in the water (pun somewhat intended).

[Seraphim]

Finally done with the Umineko question arcs. It ended up taking a lot longer than I expected (almost two months), mostly because the first two episodes were less exciting than I hoped for, which led to me putting them on hold several times in favor of other games and VNs. Things started getting more interesting in episode 3, and then even more so in the fourth and final episode.
 

Spoiler

After learning in Higurashi that events depicted on-screen might be fabrications that only show up based on the perspective of the scene, I naturally ended up being skeptical about all depictions of witchery and did a lot less speculating this time around overall.
However, I do have some theories and thoughts, so I figure I might as well share them, no matter how far off the mark they may or may not be.

1. I think Battler and Ange are full siblings. First of all, we learn in one of the chapters (I think it was the third one) that Battler isn't actually Asumu's son; he just Asumu'd he was.
*cough* Aaanyway, it has seemed a bit weird to me from the start that Battler and Ange would have exactly the same hair color if they only share one parent. (I mean, it's technically possible that they could, but it seems highly unlikely.)
We're told at one point that Kyrie and Asumu were pregnant with boys at the same time, meaning there is very much a chance that Battler could actually be Kyrie's son and that the story about his death was faked for one reason or another. (In any case, I sincerely doubt the story about her supposedly dead son has no relevance to the plot. I get the feeling it's either a case of deception or a trigger for a revenge scheme.) Speaking of fakes...

2. The Battler taking part in the "killing game" isn't the real Battler. One thing that points to this is the fact that he couldn't answer Beatrice's question about a sin he supposedly committed, which would make sense if he isn't the one who actually committed it.
Also, the whole "number of people alive on the island" argument that keeps being brought up again and again as evidence for the existence of witches, can be refuted if the Battler on the island is a fake. The real Battler is just assuming that he himself is actually part of the game and thus counts himself among the number of people there. On the other hand, if he actually isn't, he should be excluded from that count and that makes it entirely possible for someone else to act as a fake Battler without the number of people exceeding what we've been told. (It's actually kinda funny if this is the case, since Battler once proposed a theory about this very thing in regards to Kinzo as the 18th person.)
In chapter 3, the other family members acknowledged someone as Kinzo, the head of the family, despite the fact that Kinzo himself was already dead. That, combined with my other theories, leads me to believe that the fake Battler might be that Kinzo. I feel like the fact that the other family members acknowledged him at all is in itself proof that it must be a person they already know well. If it was someone unknown to them or someone they, for one reason or another, considered unworthy of headship, they would most likely start protesting vehemently as soon as that person revealed themselves.
To add to this theory of mine, there's also the fact that the title picture for Umineko - Answer Arcs on Steam shows Battler wearing a cape very similar to the one Kinzo had. (If my theory is actually on point, that picture is a pretty big spoiler.)
While on the subject of Fake Battler, I might as well mention that I think that white-haired guy (his name escapes me at the moment) employed by Ange in the future might actually be him. He seems to fit age-wise, and, as it so happens, he's apparently specilized in sniping, which could no doubt explain many of the cases of people's heads being blown off. I can recall a certain other event where people started dropping dead from major wounds, namely when Ange visisted the island in 1998. And oh, wouldn't you know it, Mr. White Hair just so happened to be on the island at that time. That's quite the coincidence.
One of the things that speak strongly against this theory is that the Battler left behind on the island after the murders in chapter 4 (the same Battler who couldn't answer Beatrice's question) seems to act like the normal Battler during his inner monologue at the end. It could just be another case of convenient use of perspective though, I guess.
(Sidenote: It's entirely possible that the "fake" Battler might be the one bearing that name and the "real" Battler is actually called something else, but it wouldn't really make a difference here; my point is just that the Battler on the game board and the Battler off the game board are different people.)

3. To add to my previous theory, I think both the real Battler and Beatrice might already be dead. The battle between them off the game board doesn't make much sense from a realistic viewpoint, but it could easily be explained if it's some sort of afterlife where the rules of the real world don't apply.
I'm guessing they were in a relationship that was cut short due to tragic circumstances and then they got stuck in a limbo where Beatrice retained her memories while Battler didn't, and now she's trying to make him remember.
The second choice on Battler's test on the game board in chapter 3 asked him to name the person he loves, and it seems highly likely that Beatrice's name was supposed to go there and the reason her mood did a 180 is because Battler didn't realize that.
As for the sin Battler supposedly commited, I don't have any theories whatsoever at the moment, unless she's referring to him forgetting her.

4. I don't know if there's actually anything to this, but I feel like there's something suspicious about Jessica. First of all, she has at times shown some reactions that seem somewhat overly dramatical. People can of course react to trauma in many different ways and maybe this is just the way she is, but to me as an outsider, it kinda seems like she's trying to fake an emotional reaction to something that didn't actually come as a surprise to her.
Then there's the fact that she, in one of the first two chapters, was very much against holing up in Kinzo's study, by far the safest room in the mansion, as a safety precaution. Rather, she wanted to go to the parlor instead, which is probably the least safe room of them all. Even if she didn't like the smell in Kinzo's study, like she claimed, I find it hard to believe that she'd actually be willing to put her life on the line just to avoid it. To me, it seemed more like she deliberately wanted to keep everyone out of the study, either to put them in harms way or to conceal something that she didn't want them to find there.
Furthermore, during her pre-death phone call with Battler in episode 3, she seemed abnormally pushy about convincing Battler that a witch was responsible for everything that had happened. Kyrie did the exact same thing during her following phone conversation with Battler after that, which felt suspicious for the same reason.
On the note of convincing people that the witch is real, I'm pretty sure that's the entire purpose of the magic circles. It puts the idea of something occult going on in the minds of the people there, which in turn would make them more suggestible to accepting the notion of supernatural causes for subsequent incidents.

5. I find it a bit suspicious that there's a space inbetween Rosa and Maria on the character screen.
It might not necessarily mean anything, bit it could also mean that someone with a relation to one or both of them is going to show up at some point. I currently don't have any theory as to who that might be, though.

I've probably forgotten to mention some things, but this'll have to do for now. I know there's a recent Umineko discussion post here on the forums that I'd love to read, but I haven't dared venture into it due to fear of getting spoiled in some way. I'll probably have to put it off until I'm done.

On that note, I think it's about time I move on to the answer arcs, and I'm looking forward to seeing if any of my theories managed to hit the nail on the head.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Seraphim

[Silvz]

7 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Finally done with the Umineko question arcs. It ended up taking a lot longer than I expected (almost two months), mostly because the first two episodes were less exciting than I hoped for, which led to me putting them on hold several times in favor of other games and VNs. Things started getting more interesting in episode 3, and then even more so in the fourth and final episode.
 

  Hide contents

After learning in Higurashi that events depicted on-screen might be fabrications that only show up based on the perspective of the scene, I naturally ended up being skeptical about all depictions of witchery and did a lot less speculating this time around overall.
However, I do have some theories and thoughts, so I figure I might as well share them, no matter how far off the mark they may or may not be.

1. I think Battler and Ange are full siblings. First of all, we learn in one of the chapters (I think it was the third one) that Battler isn't actually Asumu's son; he just Asumu'd he was.
*cough* Aaanyway, it has seemed a bit weird to me from the start that Battler and Ange would have exactly the same hair color if they only share one parent. (I mean, it's technically possible that they could, but it seems highly unlikely.)
We're told at one point that Kyrie and Asumu were pregnant with boys at the same time, meaning there is very much a chance that Battler could actually be Kyrie's son and that the story about his death was faked for one reason or another. (In any case, I sincerely doubt the story about her supposedly dead son has no relevance to the plot. I get the feeling it's either a case of deception or a trigger for a revenge scheme.) Speaking of fakes...

2. The Battler taking part in the "killing game" isn't the real Battler. One thing that points to this is the fact that he couldn't answer Beatrice's question about a sin he supposedly committed, which would make sense if he isn't the one who actually committed it.
Also, the whole "number of people alive on the island" argument that keeps being brought up again and again as evidence for the existence of witches, can be refuted if the Battler on the island is a fake. The real Battler is just assuming that he himself is actually part of the game and thus counts himself among the number of people there. On the other hand, if he actually isn't, he should be excluded from that count and that makes it entirely possible for someone else to act as a fake Battler without the number of people exceeding what we've been told. (It's actually kinda funny if this is the case, since Battler once proposed a theory about this very thing in regards to Kinzo as the 18th person.)
In chapter 3, the other family members acknowledged someone as Kinzo, the head of the family, despite the fact that Kinzo himself was already dead. That, combined with my other theories, leads me to believe that the fake Battler might be that Kinzo. I feel like the fact that the other family members acknowledged him at all is in itself proof that it must be a person they already know well. If it was someone unknown to them or someone they, for one reason or another, considered unworthy of headship, they would most likely start protesting vehemently as soon as that person revealed themselves.
To add to this theory of mine, there's also the fact that the title picture for Umineko - Answer Arcs on Steam shows Battler wearing a cape very similar to the one Kinzo had. (If my theory is actually on point, that picture is a pretty big spoiler.)
While on the subject of Fake Battler, I might as well mention that I think that white-haired guy (his name escapes me at the moment) employed by Ange in the future might actually be him. He seems to fit age-wise, and, as it so happens, he's apparently specilized in sniping, which could no doubt explain many of the cases of people's heads being blown off. I can recall a certain other event where people started dropping dead from major wounds, namely when Ange visisted the island in 1998. And oh, wouldn't you know it, Mr. White Hair just so happened to be on the island at that time. That's quite the coincidence.
One of the things that speak strongly against this theory is that the Battler left behind on the island after the murders in chapter 4 (the same Battler who couldn't answer Beatrice's question) seems to act like the normal Battler during his inner monologue at the end. It could just be another case of convenient use of perspective though, I guess.
(Sidenote: It's entirely possible that the "fake" Battler might be the one bearing that name and the "real" Battler is actually called something else, but it wouldn't really make a difference here; my point is just that the Battler on the game board and the Battler off the game board are different people.)

3. To add to my previous theory, I think both the real Battler and Beatrice might already be dead. The battle between them off the game board doesn't make much sense from a realistic viewpoint, but it could easily be explained if it's some sort of afterlife where the rules of the real world don't apply.
I'm guessing they were in a relationship that was cut short due to tragic circumstances and then they got stuck in a limbo where Beatrice retained her memories while Battler didn't, and now she's trying to make him remember.
The second choice on Battler's test on the game board in chapter 3 asked him to name the person he loves, and it seems highly likely that Beatrice's name was supposed to go there and the reason her mood did a 180 is because Battler didn't realize that.
As for the sin Battler supposedly commited, I don't have any theories whatsoever at the moment, unless she's referring to him forgetting her.

4. I don't know if there's actually anything to this, but I feel like there's something suspicious about Jessica. First of all, she has at times shown some reactions that seem somewhat overly dramatical. People can of course react to trauma in many different ways and maybe this is just the way she is, but to me as an outsider, it kinda seems like she's trying to fake an emotional reaction to something that didn't actually come as a surprise to her.
Then there's the fact that she, in one of the first two chapters, was very much against holing up in Kinzo's study, by far the safest room in the mansion, as a safety precaution. Rather, she wanted to go to the parlor instead, which is probably the least safe room of them all. Even if she didn't like the smell in Kinzo's study, like she claimed, I find it hard to believe that she'd actually be willing to put her life on the line just to avoid it. To me, it seemed more like she deliberately wanted to keep everyone out of the study, either to put them in harms way or to conceal something that she didn't want them to find there.
Furthermore, during her pre-death phone call with Battler in episode 3, she seemed abnormally pushy about convincing Battler that a witch was responsible for everything that had happened. Kyrie did the exact same thing during her following phone conversation with Battler after that, which felt suspicious for the same reason.
On the note of convincing people that the witch is real, I'm pretty sure that's the entire purpose of the magic circles. It puts the idea of something occult going on in the minds of the people there, which in turn would make them more suggestible to accepting the notion of supernatural causes for subsequent incidents.

5. I find it a bit suspicious that there's a space inbetween Rosa and Maria on the character screen.
It might not necessarily mean anything, bit it could also mean that someone with a relation to one or both of them is going to show up at some point. I currently don't have any theory as to who that might be, though.

I've probably forgotten to mention some things, but this'll have to do for now. I know there's a recent Umineko discussion post here on the forums that I'd love to read, but I haven't dared venture into it due to fear of getting spoiled in some way. I'll probably have to put it off until I'm done.

On that note, I think it's about time I move on to the answer arcs, and I'm looking forward to seeing if any of my theories managed to hit the nail on the head.

nice theories, but 

about topic 5, it's just because the space right next to Rosa is where her spouse should be. It's just a design pattern

[Mr Poltroon]

@Silvz I don't know if Seraphim has seen your reply yet, but as obvious as it may seen, I would put it in spoiler tags so as to not affect the person's experience. Maybe I'm very wrong and they don't mind, but if you don't know how they'll react, directly replying to their theories, whether it seems obvious or not, may affect them negatively somehow.

[Seraphim]

16 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

I don't know if Seraphim has seen your reply yet

I have. While the reply makes it seem like my theories are off, which could be considered a spoiler-ish statement in itself due to process of elimination, I still don't know if I'm wrong on all accounts or just some, so I guess it's not too bad.

[adamstan]

So, after all I got distracted again, and started reading another moege from Palette - Sakura Strasse instead of Bokuten

[Silvz]

5 hours ago, Seraphim said:

I have. While the reply makes it seem like my theories are off, which could be considered a spoiler-ish statement in itself due to process of elimination, I still don't know if I'm wrong on all accounts or just some, so I guess it's not too bad.

nah, didn't mean to say they are wrong. Just teasing you.

[Eclipsed]

Alright friends I'm sorry, I couldn't get into Ao Kana, I know, I know, blasphemy, it's one of the more favored high school slice of lifes out there, but I'm just waaay passed my SoL honey moon phase lol. Absolutely loved the artwork, and coupled with the flying thematics/settings I just know it would've been one of my tops alongside all the others I've red in the past.

I can probably get back into it some other time, but after going through MuvLuv / Al Somnium Files / Chaos;Child / Utawarerumono this year I'm still hungry for some more plot heavy shenanigans rather than mindless eye candy moe droolzie fests.

That being said, I did get another VN for my Switch in addition to Ao Kana:

YU-NO.

Now I didn't really read the synopsis for it, so when I was slogging through the prologue for a good 2-3 hours I was like uh oh, but then BAM it's a VN that involves timetravel/multiuniverse YEEE thank the VN gods!

~~

You are protagonist (first) Takuya Arima (last), an "acts obnoxious and perverted" high school boy who is kind of in a slump and slacking with his life and studies after his father, a fairly renowned researcher/historian, goes missing for a month and is eventually presumed dead. Takuya now lives with just his stepmother Ayumi, a very gentle and caring woman who's only about 10 years older than Takuya. Cuz she was a student of Takuya's dad and they fell in love. Whew. 

Takuya is an obnoxious loudmouth, and 50% of his dialogue with any female character is plagued with early 2000s perverted protagonist humor; hopefully he'll grow out of it in some semblance of character development come later. He even pervs out on his stepmother Ayumi at times lol, but at least he's mindful about that:

Yo dw Takuya, I won't judge, you're only looking because I'm making you, because I'm the one who wants to stare 

Yada yada yada, Takuya eventually gets a package delivered to him. The sender? His father! And inside is the deus ex machina of deus ex machinas, your very own time machine device! Now YU-NO came out in 1996, so it's the OG time travel/multiverse VN and I'm going to just enjoy it for what it is instead of trying to compare it with Steins;gate / Zero Escape and whatnot.

So far I dig the concept, you know how VNs have flow charts and save points? These are seamlessly implemented as a natural feature of Takuya's time travel device so he can set a jewel (checkpoint) and jump between them at will, though he only has a limited amounted of jewels (checkpoints) to place. Basically you using this limited saving or loading feature is him using his time machine device, pretty meta for a VN made in 1996.

The only drawback so far is that it doesn't seem like Takuya himself is aware of any jumps you're doing early on in the story, though I'm assuming come late game it'll probably be heavily integrated with the plot.

 

The VN narratively plays like a point and click adventure, where you are given breaks in between dialogue to move to your next destination or examine your surroundings. Pretty neat feature, though I've already developed the habit of holding skip and clicking everything in the map and then glancing through backlogs, because there is a LOT of fluff / boring descriptions:

Yuck, too much stuff to examine. Doesn't help that you can literally leave the room and come right back and then all the things you just greyed out (indicating that it was read content) will be white again (unread content).

 

~~

Naturally I'm playing the remastered Nintendo Switch version of YU-NO. It comes with remastered tracks (though you can change the BGM to the OG 8-bit sounding ones at any time, always nice to have that feature) and modern moe graphics, which I always love so that's a plus. I saw some comments about diehard purist fans going 'Ohh the old artstyle was better, the new one is lifeless'/ Well i say y'all needa get your eyes checked and get with the times, I bet there are even OLDER purists who would think black and white pixelated pre-1970s artstyle trumps the old 2000s janky artstyle lol.

 

Yes, I had Takuya stare at her butt. For the longest time ever. Sue me

~~
Pretty interested to see what kind of story this VN will do

[adamstan]

I still prefer older art style for YU-NO. Maybe my perception would change after actually playing new version, but that's not happening until it gets some massive discount during one of Steam sales At full price it's prohibitively expensive for me. 

Also, I loved original voices, but I guess to have them in the remake would be a hell of licensing nightmare, so I understand that. As for the art - it doesn't even have to be pixellated 16 color original one, I'm fine with redoing it for hi-res etc, but it's just that some of the new character designs themselves are IMO worse - especially Mio, but also Ayumi and Mitsuki - their new designs have kind of dumbed-down look. If they'd redraw it using original designs it would have been perfect for me I think.

However, if the rumors are true, and remake does away with constant pantyshot CGs in the most inappropriate mood ruining moments, then that's a big plus

Edited September 20, 2020 by adamstan

[sid.vnlr]

I am playing the Fruit of Grisaia. It is a very interesting read.

[Seraphim]

Okay, I'm done with episode 5 of Umineko. Things are starting to clear up somewhat and I've revised some theories as well as made up some new ones. I might just be pulling things out of my ass here, but that's part of the fun.
 

Spoiler

We learn of the fact that Natsuhi, who was unable to get pregnant, were handed a child by Kinzo, and that she then supposedly pushed that child and the servant holding it off a cliff, or at the very least let it happen. This seems to fit with some parts of my previous Battler theories, so I started thinking that might have been him, which he then confirmed himself towards the end of the episode. I obviously can't be entirely sure it's the truth, since both Higurashi and Umineko likes to play around with perspective and turn things on their head, so it might just as well just be something Battler proposed as a means to preserve the illusion of the witch and Beatrice's existence in the fight against the others. It seems plausible though, and it has made me question Battler's and Beatrice's relation to each other.
I think my previous theory about them "being in a relationship" still holds true, with the one big difference that, rather than lovers, I'm currently leaning more towards Beatrice being Battler's mother. Basically, my theory is that she might have been the servant girl who fell off the cliff along with him, and while he survived, she didn't.
(Sidenote: There's a flashback of Rosa as a child in episode 1 or 2, where Beatrice falls down a cliff and dies. We didn't know many details at the time, but it fits quite well together with this "servant falls off a cliff" story that we've learned of now.)
In the episode where we're told that Battler isn't Asumu's son, we learn that he's still a true descendant of Kinzo's. My guess is that Beatrice was a servant that Kinzo fell in love with and either had an affair with or maybe even forced himself upon. (going by the information provided so far, it seems like she was being held in Kuwadorian against her will) The outcome was still the same, namely that she got pregnant. Kinzo wanted that child as his successor, but since it was the result of an illicit relationship, he chose to claim that the child was a boy from the orphanage and put him in Natsuhi's care since she couldn't bear a child herself.
Kinzo never truly acknowledged Natsuhi as part of the family and even went as far as to not speak to or even look at her, and I imagine that might be caused by resentment after she failed to take care of the child (which, unbeknownst to others, was his own son) that was entrusted to her.

Battler being that child makes me wonder who Asumu's and Kyrie's sons are, though. To be honest, I don't remember if it's been proven beyond doubt that Asumu even had a child, or if "Battler=Asumu's son" was just some concept that was proposed to us.
In regards to Kyrie's supposedly dead son, I still have a hard time accepting that he's really dead, since it seems like that wouldn't have much impact on the story. (Then again, not everything must.)
I'm still pretty hung up on that white-haired dude employed by Ange in 1998, so maybe he's Kyrie's son? The hair color sure fits, as everyone in her family seems to have white hair. On the other hand, my theory of him maybe being Battler could also still hold true, since it's not exactly hard to dye your hair and whatnot. (Honestly, it would be kinda poetic if he is Battler, since that would mean that Ange's dear brother has been right beside her without her even realizing it.)
At the very least, that guy seems to fit age-wise, and his particular skills make it seem like carrying out murders on an isolated island wouldn't be all that difficult.
If nothing else, it seems very likely that he'll play a larger part in the story at some point, and it wouldn't exactly surprise me if Okonogi does as well, given his role in Higurashi.

Some things that confuse me:
1. I still don't know what to make of the fact that Battler and Ange have the same hair color. Maybe it doesn't have any deeper meaning at all, but it really seems to indicate that they're full siblings. However, that falls apart if Ange truly is Kyrie's daughter while Battler is Beatrice's son. Bah, I don't know what to think.
2. Likewise, I still have no clue as to what sin Battler is guilty of according to Beatrice, but I'll probably find out pretty soon even if I don't manage to deduce it on my own, since he claims to have figured everything out at the end of episode 5.
3. Beatrice's gold. If she truly was a servant, the only reason I could find for her having that much gold is if Kinzo in reality didn't get it from her, but rather gave her the entire fortune he made over the course of his long life.
4. The relation between Higurashi and Umineko. According to several different scenes, it seems like the world of Higurashi was a playground for Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, with Bernkastel controlling Rika and Lambdadelta controlling Takano, but there's also the fact that Lambdadelta both looks and laughs like Satoko. Maybe they had several game pieces each, I dunno.
On the other hand, there's another scene where they're explicitly talking about the game "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni" and Lambdadelta not knowing the ending of it, which doesn't make sense at all if she was actually playing one or more parts in it.

Oh well, time to move on to episode 6!

Edited September 20, 2020 by Seraphim

[Silvz]

1 hour ago, Seraphim said:

Okay, I'm done with episode 5 of Umineko. Things are starting to clear up somewhat and I've revised some theories as well as made up some new ones. I might just be pulling things out of my ass here, but that's part of the fun.
 

  Hide contents

We learn of the fact that Natsuhi, who was unable to get pregnant, were handed a child by Kinzo, and that she then supposedly pushed that child and the servant holding it off a cliff, or at the very least let it happen. This seems to fit with some parts of my previous Battler theories, so I started thinking that might have been him, which he then confirmed himself towards the end of the episode. I obviously can't be entirely sure it's the truth, since both Higurashi and Umineko likes to play around with perspective and turn things on their head, so it might just as well just be something Battler proposed as a means to preserve the illusion of the witch and Beatrice's existence in the fight against the others. It seems plausible though, and it has made me question Battler's and Beatrice's relation to each other.
I think my previous theory about them "being in a relationship" still holds true, with the one big difference that, rather than lovers, I'm currently leaning more towards Beatrice being Battler's mother. Basically, my theory is that she might have been the servant girl who fell off the cliff along with him, and while he survived, she didn't.
(Sidenote: There's a flashback of Rosa as a child in episode 1 or 2, where Beatrice falls down a cliff and dies. We didn't know many details at the time, but it fits quite well together with this "servant falls off a cliff" story that we've learned of now.)
In the episode where we're told that Battler isn't Asumu's son, we learn that he's still a true descendant of Kinzo's. My guess is that Beatrice was a servant that Kinzo fell in love with and either had an affair with or maybe even forced himself upon. (going by the information provided so far, it seems like she was being held in Kuwadorian against her will) The outcome was still the same, namely that she got pregnant. Kinzo wanted that child as his successor, but since it was the result of an illicit relationship, he chose to claim that the child was a boy from the orphanage and put him in Natsuhi's care since she couldn't bear a child herself.
Kinzo never truly acknowledged Natsuhi as part of the family and even went as far as to not speak to or even look at her, and I imagine that might be caused by resentment after she failed to take care of the child (which, unbeknownst to others, was his own son) that was entrusted to her.

Battler being that child makes me wonder who Asumu's and Kyrie's sons are, though. To be honest, I don't remember if it's been proven beyond doubt that Asumu even had a child, or if "Battler=Asumu's son" was just some concept that was proposed to us.
In regards to Kyrie's supposedly dead son, I still have a hard time accepting that he's really dead, since it seems like that wouldn't have much impact on the story. (Then again, not everything must.)
I'm still pretty hung up on that white-haired dude employed by Ange in 1998, so maybe he's Kyrie's son? The hair color sure fits, as everyone in her family seems to have white hair. On the other hand, my theory of him maybe being Battler could also still hold true, since it's not exactly hard to dye your hair and whatnot. (Honestly, it would be kinda poetic if he is Battler, since that would mean that Ange's dear brother has been right beside her without her even realizing it.)
At the very least, that guy seems to fit age-wise, and his particular skills make it seem like carrying out murders on an isolated island wouldn't be all that difficult.
If nothing else, it seems very likely that he'll play a larger part in the story at some point, and it wouldn't exactly surprise me if Okonogi does as well, given his role in Higurashi.

Some things that confuse me:
1. I still don't know what to make of the fact that Battler and Ange have the same hair color. Maybe it doesn't have any deeper meaning at all, but it really seems to indicate that they're full siblings. However, that falls apart if Ange truly is Kyrie's daughter while Battler is Beatrice's son. Bah, I don't know what to think.
2. Likewise, I still have no clue as to what sin Battler is guilty of according to Beatrice, but I'll probably find out pretty soon even if I don't manage to deduce it on my own, since he claims to have figured everything out at the end of episode 5.
3. Beatrice's gold. If she truly was a servant, the only reason I could find for her having that much gold is if Kinzo in reality didn't get it from her, but rather gave her the entire fortune he made over the course of his long life.
4. The relation between Higurashi and Umineko. According to several different scenes, it seems like the world of Higurashi was a playground for Bernkastel and Lambdadelta, with Bernkastel controlling Rika and Lambdadelta controlling Takano, but there's also the fact that Lambdadelta both looks and laughs like Satoko. Maybe they had several game pieces each, I dunno.
On the other hand, there's another scene where they're explicitly talking about the game "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni" and Lambdadelta not knowing the ending of it, which doesn't make sense at all if she was actually playing one or more parts in it.

Oh well, time to move on to episode 6!

Don't think too much about the last topic, as although they are related somehow, the how is meant to be foggy. There will be another character who will help you understanding the relation between the two stories, though.

About your theories, this time I will tag it. Not a spoiler, but a tip

 

I think you misinterpreted some things and took them as true

Edited September 20, 2020 by Silvz

[Seraphim]

I don't think I dare click on that spoiler box, since I really want to avoid anything that can either confirm or deny any of my theories ahead of time. I'm basically not looking for any sort of discussion at this point, but rather just jotting down thoughts as they come to me.
I've been jumping back and forth between a lot of different theories and have a hard time deciding exactly what to believe. Some stuff seem to hold up pretty well, but then something shows up contradicting it or leading me onto a different track every so often. It was the same with Higurashi, but Umineko's mystery feels even harder to get a grasp on.

[Guest]

Played Disco Elysium recently, does that count as a visual novel ?  The weird stats system works really well with the story telling, and although the story doesn't change much with your choices, maybe there's a glimpse of greatness in that game ? Thoughts ?

Edited September 21, 2020 by Guest

[Silvz]

3 hours ago, maefdomn said:

Played Disco Elysium recently, does that count as a visual novel ?  The weird stats system works really well with the story telling, and although the story doesn't change much with your choices, maybe there's a glimpse of greatness in that game ? Thoughts ?

no

[alpacaman]

As for a longer answer: No, I wouldn't call Disco Elysium visual novel, it's closer to older western RPGs like Planescape: Torment. It's really quite good, though I think it falls a tiny bit short of the hype surrounding it. My favourite part was when I stole amphetamines from a twelve year old boy. 

[Mr Poltroon]

I don't know that I would describe Disco Elysium as a Visual Novel, but simultaneously I somehow felt it had too much text even though I read Visual Novels that most definitely tend to offer more such fluff. Must be because in Elysium I always felt I was making no progress and/or that the text required too much thinking to parse/interact with.

What a scrub I am.

[adamstan]

After all, not every text-heavy game has to be Visual Novel. There were text-based adventures - which Visual Novels evolved from, so perhaps Disco Elysium could be called text-RPG?

[fuyopon]

Alrighty! I've been away for a while but I'm back with a finished vn! This time, it was Room No. 9.

Was it sad? It was. Was it sexy?  Was I hoping for more? For sure!! :(
I thought we would have more freedom of choice and especially more gore... Well, overall, I wouldn't say it was a bad experience, not at all. I did like it a lot. This left me wanting more, I think I'm gonna read Euphoria or Maggot Baits very soon... 

Spoiler

I loved ending F (for friendship) as it was the happiest ending but boy oh boy, that ending A... the mind break sure was smexy~ 

------------

The next one I plan on finishing soon is Kara no Shoujo 2!

[Maxwell]

Just finished Steins;Gate, after that probably continue my journey on BSD2 lol

[adamstan]

I'm reading Sakura Strasse, but protagonist really annoys me. He definitely won't work as a self-insert character for me He's horrible tsundere, and on top of that keeps switching between two modes - rude and whiny bitch. And donkan to boot... Poor girls, falling in love with such fool... I wonder if they manage to change him into something decent

Edited September 26, 2020 by adamstan

[Silvz]

3 hours ago, adamstan said:

 He definitely won't work as a self-insert character for me

Do you always go for the self insertion aspect of VNs? I could never do that, I don't see myself as the protagonist, but as a reader of a novel.

[adamstan]

45 minutes ago, Silvz said:

Do you always go for the self insertion aspect of VNs?

Actually, no. (But it perhaps did happen with some of the moeges I played. Nevertheless I don't actively aim for that) Most of the times for me it's also just following the story - with various degrees of immersion. I just wanted to stress how much his attitude annoys me and makes me wanna smack him over the head (Well, Yuu-nee already does it, so maybe I don't need to )

Edited September 26, 2020 by adamstan

[Stormwolf]

4 hours ago, adamstan said:

I'm reading Sakura Strasse, but protagonist really annoys me. He definitely won't work as a self-insert character for me He's horrible tsundere, and on top of that keeps switching between two modes - rude and whiny bitch. And donkan to boot... Poor girls, falling in love with such fool... I wonder if they manage to change him into something decent

Sounds like real life tbh! The usual protagonist wouldn't wet many girls tbh

[Hitazo]

Might be a stretch to call it a VN but I've been playing 13 Sentinels and it's amazing. I suggest you try it out if you are a fan of sci-fi