So Pre-orders have come to this...

[Kaguya]

It's not just weapons and other equipment, a whole Story-DLC is part of it.

 

Which is at least for me the main issue Story-DLCs which already exist t release are bad enough but offering those exclusive to preorderers and only if they either buy the CE or via that tier system means you can't even get the full story if you don't preorder.

 

To compare it to something else:

imagine you buy a car but you get it without, for example, doors if you don't buy it when before you even know how many seats or PS it has or even which colour and only if enough other people buy the same car and you can't add them later. do you get it now?

 

Do you seriously believe this ridiculous comparison is valid?

To begin with, from what I got the DLC was one extra mission- not sure it's as much as "a story DLC" makes it sound like, but let's say it is.

 

I highly doubt this story DLC is crucial towards the understanding or ending of the main story. This is not getting a door-less car- you cannot drive a door-less car. This is like getting a car without AC- sure it's slightly bothersome, but you can drive without it just fine.

 

Unless you're suggesting the game is essentially unplayable without the extra. And in that case, well- I don't have much to say. 

[Kaguya]

Kaguya, just watch one of the videos if you still don't get it.  If you haven't dealt with this kind of crap, it's not very likely that you'll get a very good understanding of it.

 

Okay, then, stop thinking about games for a moment and apply the same logic the companies are using to other types of media.  Would you like being unable to read the entirety of a book unless you bought it ahead of the sale date?  Imagine, a section of the first print of the book has been cut out and is only available if you buy it ahead of time, before you hear anything about it other than the plot summary and the author and publisher's handpicked comments praising it.  The written passage was obviously already in the book and could have been in the first edition, but it was taken out to encourage you to buy it new, from a certain retailer and by a certain date.  You either agree to their terms to get the full story, or miss out because you either don't have that retailer nearby, don't have the dough at the moment, or simply didn't hear about it until after the date passed and they stopped selling that version with the missing passage.  It's infuriating.  It doesn't matter just how meaningless the stripped content is, it's the idea behind it.  They are encouraging you to ignore things set in place to help consumers decide if a purchase is a good idea (because nowadays review embargoes are commonplace) in order to get the full experience, which should be what you paid for.  Notice I'm not even talking about DLC, I'm talking about the base game.

 

I've watched the TotalBiscuit video.

 

 

The book comparison isn't valid again, unless you make a few adjustments to it. 

This is more similar to buying an anime and not having the extra special- and even then it's too much. If you cut a portion of a book, you're often making it absolutely unreadable. Maybe it's more akin to cutting an extra after-story that doesn't affect the first one, or maybe it's more like cutting a few cool lines the protagonist said- and I'm perfectly fine with all of those. And if I weren't, well, I could just not buy the book in the first place. There's a ton of books in my backlog anyway, not like not reading one of them will ever make me displeased.

 

It does matter how meaningless it is- how can you even say it doesn't? Let's push it to the other side, say we're making Fate/Stay Night and we're offering special "dinner scenes" DLC. Those are silly and pointless, but you see the characters interacting and it does add a bit to them. Way, way different than cutting a whole segment of a book, isn't it? 

 

And that's for the extra mission. If we're just talking about the game, I don't even know what to compare it to. This extra content is as pointless as it gets and you're overreacting way too much when it comes to it. 

 

It's almost like you order latte. If you payed extra before you got the latte, there would be a nice cream addition. You then proceed to rant about how serious it is that you can't buy the cream midway through and how this will profoundly affect all latte drinkers over time since they don't stand up to it. 

 

Leaving all that aside, I can't see how this is babyraging over the most trivial non-issue I've seen this year. We're going in circles here, so I'll stop answering by now. Have fun continuing your circlejerk on evil companies. *Sigh*

[Eclipsed]

I understand the babyraging over trivial-non issue.

 

Prior to the existence of DLCs when you bought games you would get the full package for a set price

 

Nowadays gamers are being nickeled and dimed; pay a set price for a non complete package; to complete it, you'd have to pay an extra $15 for this DLC, $5 this addon, $50 bucks for this expansion, etc. etc.

 

Sure you can consider these "extras" but what gamers feel is that it should've been included in the first place; what is essentially happening is

 

Back then you'd order a hamgurger and it'd come with the cheese, pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, everything

 

Nowadays because of DLC and $$$ you only get the bread and patty, and will have to pay for the cheese, pickles, etc.

 

Soon you'll only get the bread when you order a hamburger and will have to cough up the dough for the rest of the package.

[Kaguya]

I understand the babyraging over trivial-non issue.

 

Prior to the existence of DLCs when you bought games you would get the full package for a set price

 

Nowadays gamers are being nickeled and dimed; pay a set price for a non complete package; to complete it, you'd have to pay an extra $15 for this DLC, $5 this addon, $50 bucks for this expansion, etc. etc.

 

Sure you can consider these "extras" but what gamers feel is that it should've been included in the first place; what is essentially happening is

 

Back then you'd order a hamgurger and it'd come with the cheese, pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, everything

 

Nowadays because of DLC and $$$ you only get the bread and patty, and will have to pay for the cheese, pickles, etc.

Alright, this is too tempting to not answer to. Last one, I swear. 

 

Games are getting more complex over time- better graphics, more money put into mechanics, etc, etc. They're complaining about paying extra for triple size, double cheese and extra bacon (while making a company seem like satan for not selling those as part of the burger for the same price).

 

I've looked at older games- they're fucking awful. I wouldn't be able to play large titles from a few years ago, and I have low standards. Only natural the newer, bigger and tastier burger costs more- and the extras are neat. You can pay less if you don't want everything in the burger. 

 

Ok, done. I've already answered about not getting full content above, so I'm not saying anything else here. 

[Flutterz]

I've watched the TotalBiscuit video.

 

 

The book comparison isn't valid again, unless you make a few adjustments to it. 

This is more similar to buying an anime and not having the extra special- and even then it's too much. If you cut a portion of a book, you're often making it absolutely unreadable. Maybe it's more akin to cutting an extra after-story that doesn't affect the first one, or maybe it's more like cutting a few cool lines the protagonist said- and I'm perfectly fine with all of those. And if I weren't, well, I could just not buy the book in the first place. There's a ton of books in my backlog anyway, not like not reading one of them will ever make me displeased.

 

It does matter how meaningless it is- how can you even say it doesn't? Let's push it to the other side, say we're making Fate/Stay Night and we're offering special "dinner scenes" DLC. Those are silly and pointless, but you see the characters interacting and it does add a bit to them. Way, way different than cutting a whole segment of a book, isn't it? 

 

And that's for the extra mission. If we're just talking about the game, I don't even know what to compare it to. This extra content is as pointless as it gets and you're overreacting way too much when it comes to it. 

 

It's almost like you order latte. If you payed extra before you got the latte, there would be a nice cream addition. You then proceed to rant about how serious it is that you can't buy the cream midway through and how this will profoundly affect all latte drinkers over time since they don't stand up to it. 

 

Leaving all that aside, I can't see how this is babyraging over the most trivial non-issue I've seen this year. We're going in circles here, so I'll stop answering by now. Have fun continuing your circlejerk on evil companies. *Sigh*

[Eclipsed]

Ya, nowadays due to games getting more complex I'm sure devs simply don't have enough time to finish their games 100% b4 them doomsday publisher deadlines and so they just go "fk it, we'll finish it as a DLC"

 

$

 

In general the hate comes from the generic 'pay more for less' stigma that plagues the world of money

 

I raged when I learned that Reese's Peanut Butter Cups have actually been steadily shrinking in size over the years while also increasing in cost.

[sarkasmus]

Yes the games get more complex, BUT:

 

-the market has grown a lot since back then and it's still growing

-the games are easier to make because of new technologies and engines (a big Game from 10-20 years ago could now be programmed in about a week by fewer people)

-the prices for the basic already almost doubled the last years

-mainly the big titles make D1-Story-DLCs and stuff like that the ones which have the least need for it, smaller title only make skins or other really optional stuff

-it doesn't justify the ridiculous prices there was one game I think it was ME3 where you needed to pay more than 800€ if you wanted to have everything (not included the DLCs which were announced after release)

[Kelebek1]

Ya, nowadays due to games getting more complex I'm sure devs simply don't have enough time to finish their games 100% b4 them doomsday publisher deadlines and so they just go "fk it, we'll finish it as a DLC"

 

$

 

In general the hate comes from the generic 'pay more for less' stigma that plagues the world of money

 

I raged when I learned that Reese's Peanut Butter Cups have actually been steadily shrinking in size over the years while also increasing in cost.

 

If the price stayed the same then it'd mean they got cheaper. Inflation exists. Doesn't excuse the shrinking part though.

 

They do have time to finish it though, that's the point. This is day 0, it already exists at release, with release, it's on the disc. It's completely finished. This isn't first week DLC or even day 1 DLC. It was completed before release, and available AT release. That content is still available even if they pass the whole 4 day early tier 5 reward too, so it's not like they're working right on the edge to push it out in the first day or two either.

[Eclipsed]

Yeah, i meant that for in general, not for this Deus Ex.

 

Deus EX Human Revolution is an example where it probably did happen though, in the case of the Missing Link DLC.

 

Though naturally since it was DLC they got to expand more than what they would've put if they simply rushed it into the main game.

 

Still don't know about it costing 1/4 the price of the regular game though ($15 vs $60) but business is business

[Zebhra]

I dont care, but i blame valve

Not gonna preorder anything becase... well since alien colonial marines i dont trust preorders anymore....and batman was a disaster too...soo.....i can wait

[havoc]

Yeah, this is why i generally dont preorder anything.

Well there is a exception and that would be Fallout 4.

But then again fallout 4 does not have any preorder bonuses.

[Deep Blue]

Yeah, this is why i generally dont preorder anything.

Well there is a exception and that would be Fallout 4.

But then again fallout 4 does not have any preorder bonuses.

[havoc]

why? I don't get the people that pre-order fallout 4, it doesn't have any discount, they don't give you anything you are just pre paying for something without any benefit

Which is exactly why i don't see a problem in it.

While i dont see problems with a discount, i do see a hole lot of problems with giving unique stuff to people who preorder because that means people who buy a game after it comes out don't get the whole game.

As for things like starter pack, why for gods sake would you want one for a game like fallout?

Half the fun in the early game comes from being low on everything and really having to scavenge around.

And While i can see a starter pack being fun for your second playthrough, it easy enough to use the console or the mod tools to make on that you think is appropiate rather than some pre selected junk the developers put out there.

 

And let's not forget the fact that fallout was announced just 6 months before release rather than 3 years and bethesda has a lot of goodwill from me and a lot of other gamers.

[Deep Blue]

Which is exactly why i don't see a problem in it.

While i dont see problems with a discount, i do see a hole lot of problems with giving unique stuff to people who preorder because that means people who buy a game after it comes out don't get the whole game.

As for things like starter pack, why for gods sake would you want one for a game like fallout?

Half the fun in the early game comes from being low on everything and really having to scavenge around.

And While i can see a starter pack being fun for your second playthrough, it easy enough to use the console or the mod tools to make on that you think is appropiate rather than some pre selected junk the developers put out there.

 

And let's not forget the fact that fallout was announced just 6 months before release rather than 3 years and bethesda has a lot of goodwill from me and a lot of other gamers.

So you are pre-ordering the game because you really like Bethesda and how they do business, I'm not criticizing you or anything I just didn't understand why, I still don't agree though but that again is just my personal opinion.

[Flutterz]

I'm going to preorder Fallout 4 for a couple of reason. First and foremost, preordering on Steam will allow me to download the game beforehand so that I can start playing once it released, not have to wait several hours for it to download. Second of all, as buggy as their games have reportedly been on launch, they've barely ever crashed for me. And third, if it's an unplayable mess I can just refund it.

[havoc]

I'm going to preorder Fallout 4 for a couple of reason. First and foremost, preordering on Steam will allow me to download the game beforehand so that I can start playing once it released, not have to wait several hours for it to download. Second of all, as buggy as their games have reportedly been on launch, they've barely ever crashed for me. And third, if it's an unplayable mess I can just refund it.

fixed it for you.

 

And it is not that kind of buggy.

It is more along the lines of things like can't progress in quest x because person y placed item z in the ground instead of on the ground by accident.

 

I definitly had the occasional crash but that was like once every 10/20 gameplay hours.

[Flutterz]

fixed it for you.

 

And it is not that kind of buggy.

It is more along the lines of things like can't progress in quest x because person y placed item z in the ground instead of on the ground by accident.

 

I definitly had the occasional crash but that was like once every 10/20 gameplay hours.

And like I said, those bugs never affected me in either New Vegas or Skyrim, both of which I played on launch, hence reportedly.

[Mr Poltroon]

I can certainly understand Kaguya's views.

 

Most consumers get annoyed at this type of practice since it wasn't like this before: One pays a complete price one gets everything.

Nowadays one pays the complete price and one gets most of it, with all the non-important stuff removed and made into a pre-order extra. Basically forcing a consumer looking for what would previously be considered a complete product to pre-order and put themselves at extra, unnecessary, risk.

 

I don't think what the companies are doing is necessarily wrong, but that consumer reaction would be like this is predictable. By boycotting pre-orders we could possibly influence companies to go back to the 'release a complete game' mindset, so why shouldn't we boycott pre-orders?

Unfortunately, given how there are plenty of people like Kaguya (or people who just don't think at all, like me), companies will get away with more and more schemes to charge consumers, which is rather sad for those looking to enjoy these games to their fullest.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Tiagofvarela

[havoc]

I can certainly understand Kaguya's views.

 

Most consumers get annoyed at this type of practice since it wasn't like this before. You paid a complete price you got everything.

Nowadays you pay the complete price and you get most of it with all the non-important stuff removed and made into a pre-order extra. Basically forcing a consumer looking for what would previously be considered a complete product to pre-order and put themselves at extra, unnecessary, risk.

 

I don't think what they are doing is necessarily wrong, but that consumer reaction would be like this is predictable. By boycotting pre-orders we could possibly influence developers to go back to the 'release a complete game' mindset, so why shouldn't we boycott pre-orders?

Unfortunately, given how there are plenty of people like you (or people who just don't think at all, like me), companies will get away with more and more schemes to charge consumers, which is rather sad for those looking to enjoy these games to their fullest.

Taigo please specify who you mean by you. I kind of lost who you where talking about after the first scentence.

 

Now school has only just begun and so im still kind of in brain off mode, but i did not think i was that stupid.

[Mr Poltroon]

Taigo please specify who you mean by you. I kind of lost who you where talking about after the first scentence.

 

Now school has only just begun and so im still kind of in brain off mode, but i did not think i was that stupid.

Hopefully it makes more sense now. The first two 'you's referred to 'a costumer' and the other one referred to Kaguya.

[Mugi]

I'd probably care more if it was a series I actually played, but it's ridiculous nonetheless. On another note, pre-order only DLC is satan, especially when they follow through with it and don't release it afterwards. I'm still salty i'll never be able to play SSJ4 Vegeta in DB Xenoverse

[Deep Blue]

not all the pre-orders can be pre-downloaded and bethesda didnt say anything about it yet

[arakura]

Regardless of whether or not the practice is dirtbaggy, consumer backlash such as most of this thread is completely justified. The consumers aren't happy with the product and are voicing their dissatisfaction. It's on the producer to make them happy or choose not to and they will most likely do whichever will net them the greatest profits. So basically, if you've thought it over and would rather have it the other way, feel inclined to rage your heart out and then boycott their games and tell other people to do so as well. Much better than helping the business find ways to sneak more money out of you, right? Kaguya fails to realize that just as much as it's in the business's best interests to do what they are now doing, it is also in the consumer's best interests to do what everyone else in this thread is doing. Truly an argument from someone who has no real stake in the matter.

 

Not that I do either, I just wanted to try to sound smart xD

[Redpanda]

"they can augment my dick!" Best phrase ever. All hail the mighty Jim Fucking Sterling Son and thank god for him.

[greenshadow622]

Heyyy, found another game doing the same thing!

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/351970/

 

Please don't let this be a new trend.