vn release So, Seinarukana was just released, extra fully. (Steam version now available)

[Baldur]

2 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

The JAST version is $45.  The Steam version is $27 (and likely even cheaper in other regions).  "Redundant" indeed.

This sentence should be added to a tutorial, "How not to support an english VN publisher".

[sanahtlig]

44 minutes ago, Baldur said:

This sentence should be added to a tutorial, "How not to support an english VN publisher".

A large segment of the potential audience for this game on Steam doesn't a give a damn about JAST or VNs.  They have a set of expectations that must be met or they'll just hit the back button.  'Price' is one.  'No perceived censorship' is another.  Not to mention that JAST lacks universal payment options that would make it easy for people in certain regions, such as Brazil, to purchase their games.

Peter Payne has actually commented on this issue previously.  His comments might surprise you.

Edited February 3, 2017 by sanahtlig

[TheUnknownMercenary]

6 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

A large segment of the potential audience for this game on Steam doesn't a give a damn about JAST or VNs.  They have a set of expectations that must be met or they'll just hit the back button.  'Price' is one.  'No perceived censorship' is another.  Not to mention that JAST lacks universal payment options that it would make it easy for people in certain regions, such as Brazil, to purchase their games.

Peter Payne has actually commented on this issue previously.  His comments might surprise you.

Entirely agree. If i fucking SMELL censorship i will boycotte games entirely if no given reason is found. Some companies that go "Look we can't get away with some of this shit in NA that is fine here so we gotta get around it by censoring things" is understandable. In this particular case I can get the real shit elseware. But for many Nintendo games where it's "Dialogue cut for no reason other than perceived 'well our audience is immature and can't handle mature things so remove it'" makes it a no buy.

 

Cost is also an issue. In terms of VN's i support them fully so i pay full amounts but AAA games? HAH never unless they are under 50% hence why i never bought GTA5 yet...except DOOM...doom is an exception.

[Baldur]

9 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

A large segment of the potential audience for this game on Steam doesn't a give a damn about JAST or VNs.  They have a set of expectations that must be met or they'll just hit the back button.  'Price' is one.  'No perceived censorship' is another.  Not to mention that JAST lacks universal payment options that it would make it easy for people in certain regions, such as Brazil, to purchase their games.

Peter Payne has actually commented on this issue previously.  His comments might surprise you.

Really? I think most people just want 18+ content, seeing how often they ask for uncensored versions of all-ages titles. I'm talking about the average steam user you described.

Anyway, you mean that Paypal's currency translation could be too expensive in some regions? You have a point, I just think JAST could handle the situation better, but oh well.

[sanahtlig]

8 minutes ago, Baldur said:

Really? I think most people just want 18+ content, seeing how often they ask for uncensored versions of all-ages titles. I'm talking about the average steam user you described.

The following screenshot should illustrate my point.

[Baldur]

12 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

The following screenshot should illustrate my point.

Well, I disagree. If the user really knew what kind of censorship he was talking about, he would realise it isn't so extreme and that alternative content is offered. 

I was talking in general, however. Not all steam users are the same, but I think the majority doesn't care/know about the circumstances of the game they're going to buy.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Baldur

[sanahtlig]

10 minutes ago, Baldur said:

I was talking in general, however. Not all steam users are the same, but I think the majority doesn't care/know about the circumstances of the game they're going to buy.

Consider this:
SteamSpy shows 84k owners for Sakura Swim Club.  I've had 88k views on my installation guide for the Steam restoration patch.

Seems that Steam gamers might care more than your give them credit for.

Edited February 3, 2017 by sanahtlig

[Baldur]

9 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

Consider this:

SteamSpy shows 84k owners for Sakura Swim Club.  I've had 88k views on my installation guide for the Steam restoration patch.

Seems that Steam gamers might care more than your give them credit for.

What I was saying is that they might care just for 18+ content instead of uncensored and original work. Sakura Swim Club is an "ecchi" title, I'm not surprised most people want the ero, it's legitimate. Do you have any example for bigger -in terms of plot and "artistic value"-titles, like Seinarukana? 

You are reliable and I'd love to be disproved.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Baldur

[sanahtlig]

I only have data for titles I've written articles on, like Sakura Swim Club and Shiny Days.  I can tell you that my installation guide for the Shiny Days loli restoration patch has gotten many hits.  But then again, it's also the only source I know of for the official bugfix patch (JAST no longer hosts it), and I also happen to provide free technical support with no wait (JAST takes weeks or even months to respond to customer support requests).  I also don't know official sales numbers for Shiny Days, nor how many pirates are referencing my guide to patch their release version of the game.

[Baldur]

Alright. You're doing a great job, so I hope you'll manage to increase awareness.

[Decay]

2 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

I only have data for titles I've written articles on, like Sakura Swim Club and Shiny Days.  I can tell you that my installation guide for the Shiny Days loli restoration patch has gotten many hits.  But then again, it's also the only source I know of for the official bugfix patch (JAST no longer hosts it), and I also happen to provide free technical support with no wait (JAST takes weeks or even months to respond to customer support requests).  I also don't know official sales numbers for Shiny Days, nor how many pirates are referencing my guide to patch their release version of the game.

Have you tracked unique visitors, or only hits?

[ヤミハナ]

5 hours ago, littleshogun said:

I would like to said that this is redundant to be honest.

 

4 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

The JAST version is $45.  The Steam version is $27 (and likely even cheaper in other regions).  "Redundant" indeed.

Why do you say so? The patch reverts the Steam version back into the adult version of the game. Plus, the price is cheaper on Steam. Isn't that actually a good thing for VN players in general?

 

Feel free to argue.

Edited February 3, 2017 by ヤミハナ

[sanahtlig]

2 hours ago, Decay said:

Have you tracked unique visitors, or only hits?

Google Analytics tracks unique visitors.  It tells me I've had 47k unique visitors to the Sakura Swim Club installation guide.  The numbers I gave before were page views from Blogger.

1 hour ago, ヤミハナ said:

Why do you say so? The patch reverts the Steam version back into the adult version of the game. Plus, the price is cheaper on Steam. Isn't that actually a good thing for VN players in general?

The quotes around "redundant" indicated the tone of my response.  The response was in fact a mild gesture of disapproval towards the quoted content.

While I'm aware of the release (I was actively tracking the forum thread where it was posted) and I did tweet it to my followers, as well as add it to my censored eroge list and the list of VNDB releases, for various reasons I haven't actively promoted it.  JAST is permissive of such patches though so feel free to share them, and I do believe there's other users who will be interested.

Edited February 4, 2017 by sanahtlig

[littleshogun]

10 hours ago, littleshogun said:

I would like to said that this is redundant to be honest. But if you want to buying it and somehow had no access to JAST store, there you have it.

 

5 hours ago, ヤミハナ said:

 

Why do you say so? The patch reverts the Steam version back into the adult version of the game. Plus, the price is cheaper on Steam. Isn't that actually a good thing for VN players in general?

 

Feel free to argue.

Well, yeah. I'm sorry about my statement earlier here. To be honest, redundant was the first thing that I think when seeing the 18+ patch. But maybe it's not so redundant then if 18+ version price was twice of Steam version there. I want to say more here, but maybe I better save that for later.

[Fred the Barber]

5 hours ago, ヤミハナ said:

 

Why do you say so? The patch reverts the Steam version back into the adult version of the game. Plus, the price is cheaper on Steam. Isn't that actually a good thing for VN players in general?

 

Feel free to argue.

I don't see how you can call people using this "restoration patch" anything but pirates. JAST USA is selling selling two different, but related, products on different storefronts, and they've priced them differently. Some people apparently want the expensive one, but buy the cheap one and then "restoration patch" it so that it becomes the expensive one because that's the one they want to play. I guess at least this way they're paying some fraction of the money that they wanted to charge for it towards JAST USA, but if you don't see this as piracy, you've got a weird way of looking at the world.

And as far as "censorship", if you want the other release, freaking pay for it, or maybe complain about the price of the uncensored release, I guess? But don't claim this patch is a great victory for anti-censorship moral crusaders; that just sounds idiotic. They've officially released two versions of the game, one of which is, as far as I understand not "censored"; buy the one you want.

[wyldstrykr]

question: does the difference of the steam version and the 18+ version is the h-scene removal to some scenes and some word/phrase censorship like in grisaia no labyrinth? no gameplay changes?

ty

[littleshogun]

7 minutes ago, wyldstrykr said:

question: does the difference of the steam version and the 18+ version is the h-scene removal to some scenes and some word/phrase censorship like in grisaia no labyrinth? no gameplay changes?

ty

I'm not sure about 18+ content here, but at least I'm certain that the gameplay didn't had any change if we talk about the combat (There's additional version from PSP version though for a change).

[wyldstrykr]

but some saying that the steam version has an additional feature that the 18+ doesnt, *looks at steam page* maybe its my imagination

 

[ヤミハナ]

1 hour ago, wyldstrykr said:

but some saying that the steam version has an additional feature that the 18+ doesnt, *looks at steam page* maybe its my imagination

True. The all-ages Steam version does have additional features, but that's all to cover up for the adult content that has been cut out of the original game. More specifically, the additional content is from the PSP port of the game.

 

4 hours ago, Fred the Barber said:

I don't see how you can call people using this "restoration patch" anything but pirates. JAST USA is selling selling two different, but related, products on different storefronts, and they've priced them differently. Some people apparently want the expensive one, but buy the cheap one and then "restoration patch" it so that it becomes the expensive one because that's the one they want to play. I guess at least this way they're paying some fraction of the money that they wanted to charge for it towards JAST USA, but if you don't see this as piracy, you've got a weird way of looking at the world.

I do agree that this is some sort of piracy method of getting the adult content by just paying a fraction of the price, but what can I say, JAST themselves officially permits and endorses such patches. (Plus I have no other means of getting the original 18+ version of the game on their website, so I had to resort to Steam.)

[Nandemonai]

It really does feel like ripping them off, but I guess as long as Jast USA themselves are okay with it, I am too.  It just is really weird that they'd explicitly endorse undercutting themselves that much, though.

[ChaosRaven]

It's most likely just efficient calculation. The people that really wanted to play the game have most likely already bought it long ago. Therefore the Steam version is more for the remaining rest who either didn't know about the Jast version, or only want to buy from Steam or were just waiting for a cheap price. If Jast just tolerates the patch, it might calm down the censorship haters a bit and avoid that the title gets a bad Steam rating. But a higher Steam rating usually leads to increased sales and more satisfied customers, so it's pretty much a win-win situation.

Products having different prices at different retailers is a pretty normal thing, and people could also get the original Jast version cheaper if they were buying it at a sale. I think the most important thing is that people ARE buying the game and not where and for what price. Jast having delayed the Steam version for so long was already a smart move that served precisely the purpose of getting most sales at full price.

[sanahtlig]

JAST has established a pattern of releasing an eroge, then several months later releasing a non-adult version on Steam.  They could easily release both versions at the same time, if they wanted to, but they don't.  Why?  So they can charge eroge fans full-price and give them the satisfaction of playing the game first, then sell a value version of the game on Steam to a larger audience.  Furthermore, the free Steam keys to JAST users encourage their fans to give them good reviews on Steam in those very important first few days of sale.  As a business strategy, it makes sense.

As for the price difference, it's useful to keep in mind that JAST has limited control over its pricing.  Every price change has to be negotiated with the original rights holders.  Japanese companies expect eroge to be priced higher than non-eroge, and therefore JAST is obligated to price them that way.  From that perspective, perhaps JAST acknowledges that allowing users to purchase the cheaper version and add the adult content back in could secure them sales they wouldn't get otherwise.  Indeed, if you look at OELVN developers, they operate quite differently.  Whenever there's two versions available, I almost ALWAYS see them priced the same, and adult patches tend to be official and free.  The cultures are completely different, and in this case I'd say that OELVN developers clearly understand their audience better.

The non-adult version modifies some scenes and adds a few bonus missions, including some additional story content that appears to be separate from the main story.  It largely looks like gimmick content intended to lure Japanese fans into purchasing both versions (and it's not yet clear whether the low-res CGs from the PSP version will look out of place in the Steam version).  That's in contrast to the PS2 version of Aselia, which seems to have added significant content to the game.

Edited February 4, 2017 by sanahtlig

[Fred the Barber]

2 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

They could easily release both versions at the same time, if they wanted to, but they don't.

You have literally no basis for this (most likely false) claim, so the rest of the paragraph after it is bunk, founded on a false premise.

 

[sanahtlig]

37 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

You have literally no basis for this (most likely false) claim, so the rest of the paragraph after it is bunk, founded on a false premise.

I'm amazed you find it so unbelievable that a company could delay a release to wait until the second release is ready.  Do you realize Seinarukana was originally released in 2007, announced in 2011, and released in English in 2016?  They could've easily waited 10 more months and released it in 2017 instead, with not much difference in the overall time scale.

Although perhaps you're right--JAST doesn't appear to put much thought into the timing of its releases.  They just release when the games are done, typically with no fanfare and to the surprise of even those who keep tabs on them like me.  The Steam release itself appears to have been a last-minute sort of decision as they were preparing the adult version for release.

Edited February 4, 2017 by sanahtlig

[TheUnknownMercenary]

4 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

I'm amazed you find it so unbelievable that a company could delay a release to wait until the second release is ready.  Do you realize Seinarukana was originally released in 2007, announced in 2011, and released in English in 2016?  They could've easily waited 10 more months and released it in 2017 instead, with not much difference in the overall time scale.

Although perhaps you're right--JAST doesn't appear to put much thought into the timing of its releases.  They just release when the games are done, typically with no fanfare and to the surprise of even those who keep tabs on them like me.  The Steam release itself appears to have been a last-minute sort of decision as they were preparing the adult version for release.

From what I know the steam release was WAY WAY WAY later than the hardcopy release I got from their site. From what i remember they had the All Ages version done but wanted to release Aselia and this game close to each other. So they waited until Aselia was released on steam, then waited a bit more and released this on steam. The hardcopy on the other hand was done prior to both of these.