So why aren't that many VN about lolis translate by companies?

[Nekolover]

Just now, sanahtlig said:

Pornography, especially pornography not depicting real people, needs to be protected speech.  Not necessarily free to distribute anywhere, but available through the right channels (e.g., the Internet).

 

Are we talking about somebody current real people or people who been dead over 100 years? Because there a lot of games depicting dead people.

[john 'mr. customer' smith]

This is going into a direction that is definitely against Fuwanovel's policy

[Nekolover]

Just now, john 'mr. customer' smith said:

This is going into a direction that is definitely against Fuwanovel's policy

And that is? 

[solidbatman]

3 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

Pornography, especially pornography not depicting real people, needs to be protected speech.  Not necessarily free to distribute anywhere, but available through the right channels (e.g., the Internet).

It is. Miller v California. The New York case however, amended Mill v California to not include child pornography. 

[john 'mr. customer' smith]

1 minute ago, Nekolover said:

And that is? 

Quote

Lolicon/Shotacon Policy

Pedophilia is an extremely complicated and sensitive real-life issue, and presents a significant challenge to visual novel communities who want to promote thoughtful discussion but are faced with strict laws on one hand and deplorable internet rhetoric/insensitivity on the other. Many of you are aware of how far back and how divisive this issue has been. To protect the site from legal action and to resolve this issue once and for all, we have chosen to amend the site rules as follows. We're trying to strike a delicate balance here -- acknowledging this is part of the VN medium, and sensitive discussions of these topics are important. 

The new policy: Fuwanovel is not the place to discuss the nuances of pedophilia – in real life or in entertainment. Because they are a part of the traditional VN heritage of Japanese games, we acknowledge that mature, focused discussions of “loli” characters and routes within a visual novel are valid, and we will allow them within the Visual Novel discussion boards, but beyond those confines, Fuwanovel is just not the place for this topic. We have also clarified our rules for posted or linked images of "lolis" on the boards, which can be read below:

Brass Tacks:

• If you want to discuss a “loli” character or route in a visual novel, you can do so in the VN boards with the caveat that crude, inflammatory, provocative or aggressive posts will be grounds for a topic’s deletion, without warning
• Outside the realm of Visual Novels, Fuwanovel is simply not the place to discuss this complicated issue, and we ask you to avoid casual references to-, or discussions about-, pedophilia and the sexuality/sensuality of underage people or characters. This includes avoiding discussion or mention of porn- or sex-simulation games featuring underage or underage-appearing characters to the forums. 
• Rules for images, avatars, and signatures: Do not post sexual pictures of underage characters. If an image is focused on, accentuates, or exaggerates a character's nipples, vulva, or penis or positions them sensually (body position, wet panties, nearly naked, etc.), you should not post it and it will be taken down.

Attitudes of the staff vary significantly on this issue, but this policy is presented – purposefully – without moral commentary. This is a tricky issue which presents real risks for the stability of the site, and ensuring the community’s longevity simply has to come first. 

 

[sanahtlig]

Just now, solidbatman said:

It is. Miller v California. The New York case however, amended Mill v California to not include child pornography. 

Pornography is specifically excluded by the criteria of the Miller Test (which happens to protect qualifying loli content).

[solidbatman]

1 minute ago, sanahtlig said:

Pornography is specifically excluded by the criteria of the Miller Test (which happens to protect qualifying loli content).

I need to double check everything, but could have sworn it gave more freedom to "content creators" to do their thang. You prolly right though. Been a couple years since my last polisci class. Got to go to work now, I'm sure they don't want me studying porn law on their dime

[Nekolover]

3 minutes ago, solidbatman said:

It is. Miller v California. The New York case however, amended Mill v California to not include child pornography. 

Translation, please? 

1 minute ago, john 'mr. customer' smith said:

 

That horse shit but complain to the mods then. Since the language use in there is too anal for me to get.  

[Narcosis]

Alternatively, you can always move to my country.

[Nekolover]

Ah fuck it.  I am done with this.   I just learn Japanese when I can and move to Japan when I can afford it.  PS don't bother quoting me about this. I am done with this anal topic. 

[Narcosis]

Just now, Nekolover said:

Ah fuck it.  I am done with this.   I just learn Japanese when I can and move to Japan when I can afford it. 

>Implying Japan is any different

[Zakamutt]

1 hour ago, Nosebleed said:

And before that, a visual novel translator was arrested for merely importing erotic games.

This one was actually technically not true. It was an onahole; the picture on it was considered 2D child pornography by customs (but the guy checked and thought it would be alright, so uh, rip in peace). With that said, the same would happen if you imported anything with nekkid cartoon lolis, so the warning still stands lol.

[Nekolover]

Just now, Narcosis said:

>Implying Japan is any different

 

Well, they are. I don't go to jail over petty shit like this. Still get judged but no jail.  

[sanahtlig]

Just now, solidbatman said:

I need to double check everything, but could have sworn it gave more freedom to "content creators" to do their thang. You prolly right though.

I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

Miller Test:

1. Is it fap material?
2. Is it sexually explicit and offensive?
3. Is it without value to society? 

If all of the above, it's not protected speech.  The Western concept of "porn" by definition fails the Miller Test.  The Miller Test was framed to protect works of art, not porn.

[sanahtlig]

5 minutes ago, Zakamutt said:

This one was actually technically not true. It was an onahole; the picture on it was considered 2D child pornography by customs (but the guy checked and thought it would be alright, so uh, rip in peace). With that said, the same would happen if you imported anything with nekkid cartoon lolis, so the warning still stands lol.

You should probably update that article (and mine) so the misinformation doesn't continue to spread.  I've updated the Shiny Days post on my blog.

[Zakamutt]

12 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

You should probably update that article (and mine) so the misinformation doesn't continue to spread.  I've updated the Shiny Days post on my blog.

I'm not sure where in the Shiny Days article you reference the case. It's kind of long, so if you could point it out that would help. As for the other post, you're right. I've contacted @Rooke about it on Skype now, though he's free to message me wherever.

[Tay]

As fun as it is to go around and around in circles, it seems this thread is quickly devolving into ragequits and name-calling. 

If anyone wants to post substantively, go for it, otherwise I just don't see us getting much more out of this thread.