Le Baguette Debate - Can you write a good story out of a Nukige?

[Kurisu-Chan]

Well, hello there, and welcome everyone, my name is...of not importance, what's more important, is to present myself : i'm one of the members of the fuwachat mod, as well as not a tsundere, i was also member of the VN reading club (even if now it's dead) and, well, it's been a long time since i didn't open a serious thread, so, i'm introducing to you a new concept, called Le baguette debate(Yes yes, i know, don't worry...heck, Victor Hugo is gonna rape me if i don't correct myself, but i don't care!) Basically, even if the title may seem funny, it's a serious rendez-vous, and every week, we'll battle with all our might to have a better understanding of some concepts only found in visual novels, and what's a better place than an organized structure?

Every week, i'll throw a new thread, launching a new debate, it can be about everything as long as it is related to visual novels, you are free to share whatever opinion you think about the subject, we have 100% freedom of speech, and if really things start to derail, i have my banstrong cannons...oh wait i have no powers here?  . Well, i'm pretty sure our fine fuwagestapo will help me keep this thread as clean and civilized as possible.

If it's successful, i'll do Anime and Games edition, but for now, i'll concentrate on visual novels...Because we are a VN community, mostly.

so, now i can start with our first subject : Are Nukige able to have a great story? For many years now, many, many VNs came to the west, most of us are, indeed, filled with porn, but some of them are specialized in porn, we call them, nukige, they are VNs filled with all kind of kinks, with basically dozens of H-scenes, and generally serves only as fap material, BUT, we've also seen some...true, rare but existent Nukige who came out packed with a rather strong story, despise the ridiculous amount of porn it packs, and, well, the question is simple, it's not about H-scenes in VN, but do you believe that a Nukige can pack out a story as strong as a normal VN like steins;gate. And don't the fact these VNs, as nukige, hinders any try at creating a profound and interesting plot?

Thank you all, and may the force be with you. 

[Narcosis]

I'm here for the fun... and lulz, but mostly fun

[tymmur]

eroge: story with many H scenes

nukige: H scenes without a story worth reading

That's how I view the definitions and I know other people here have mentioned those definitions as well. However it's not universally agreed upon because VNDB has a tendency to add the nukige tag to eroge.

[sena]

I think it's more worth to read a nukige than certain regular novels. Just joking.

I'm not really into nukiges, but I think if a author manage to create a profound plot it can't be labeled as nukige anymore.
I mean, just a huge amount of sex scenes doesn't determine a nukige.

On the other hand, if the history is just about sex (and conviniences to lead to it), there's a nukige.

[Rose]

Euphoria?

[Dergonu]

11 minutes ago, Rose said:

Euphoria?

Most people wouldn't actually call that a nukige, as the plot in the game is the main focus, with H being used as a tool to aid it. (Something like beat blades haruka is the opposite, where the H is the main focus, and the silly plot is just put there to make the H fit in somewhere.)

[Rose]

7 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

Most people wouldn't actually call that a nukige, as the plot in the game is the main focus, with H being used as a tool to aid it. (Something like beat blades haruka is the opposite, where the H is the main focus, and the silly plot is just put there to make the H fit in somewhere.)

Hm, fair point.

[Deep Blue]

Sukui no Serenade has some really good story(at least at to some point) and the development of the characters is actually pretty amazing, sadly it all goes to shit by the end of the novel. So the answer is NEH xD

EDIT:After reading sena's post I have to agree, if the author or the novel manage to create something decent with the plot then you cant keep calling it nukige... that's what I believe.

[Narcosis]

A nukige is still a nukige, regardless whether it has plot or not; we're so used to pidgeonholing vn's by their traits, we're usually ignoring the simplest point - whether it was made mainly for faps, or does it actually tell a story? One could argue most games have a beginning, middle and the end which makes it a story from that perspective, but each story has it's merit as well. If something is written as a lousy excuse to shuffle in more h-content, it's a nukige; if 75% of the story and plot are h-scenes, it's a nukige. It does not matter the remaining 25% might be fantastic writing, it doesn't make the game instantly into 'eroge with a lot of sex'. It's a nukige.

Not saying there aren't good games which have a lot more h-content than your standard 18+ vn, but the main point of a nukige isn't really to tell the 'reader' a good story

[Okarin]

A story as strong as Steins;Gate... never.

But Steins;Gate doesn't focus on porn since it doesn't have it, so it frees up time and effort to put into the plot and characters.

I'm not an expert on nukiges but I consider games like Eroge! (complete with fetishes) to be that. Lots of porn, fantasy-appealing concept, etc.

Yume Miru Kusuri is more debatable as a nukige, has loads of porn but also tries to have a serious story, and I say *tries*, because I think it fails spectacularly. At best it's just meh, at worst it's facepalm-worthy and jarring.

So, as far as I've seen: no, a strong story is not needed in a nukige, so it's no surprise they don't invest into it.

Also we'd have to make the distinction between porn-oriented nukige and regular eroge, that can tell a better story or focus on the characters and the environment, and be more balanced out.

Bottom line is they have a limited budget and you can use said budget different ways; you can go the H approach and a neat nukige will be born, you can spread the attention and effort more between the novel's parts, you can go full story, full characters etc. A novel that had it all, would have a tremendous budget.

[Narcosis]

A story-based game won't really ever focus on 'porn' as porn by definition isn't sacrum, nor even middle of the road. Granted, you can deal with topics that dwelve deeper into the sexual side of human nature and it obviously requires writing about it, but those are a rarity; themes of prostitution, love triangles, love conquests  etc. they'd all require a lot more erotic content to cover the topic; only a handlful of writers would be really capable to write something, that doesn't actually focus on the porn aspects, while still talking about sex.

[SCG_1037]

For me , i just ask myself this simple question  after reading a vn.

Was the story there to improve the h-scenes or was the h-scenes there to improve the story ? 

If the story was there to improve the h-scenes , then i consider it a nukige , since the vn is focusing more on the h-scenes  and uses the story to have those h-scenes happen for some reason , and if the h-scenes are there to improve the story , then the vn is focusing more on the story and only uses the h-scenes to developed the relationship between two characters.

ps: you can use h-scenes to improve the story in other ways than i said , i just give a example.

[DrDaxxy]

Having lots of sex scenes would usually make a story worse. Erotic literature (unless it's short) isn't all sex either. Overuse it and instead of providing a striking emotional element it just gets boring.

I could see comedy being an exception to that rule: If your story is already silly, I don't think throwing more sex in is gonna hurt it (especially if the sex scenes are themselves funny).

But if your only reason for calling something a nukige is that it has particularly explicit/kinky sex scenes: I don't think that makes a difference. I mean, sure, you probably wouldn't bother with a good story if you just want to cater to "weird" fetishes, but there's no reason you couldn't do that just as well as in any vanilla eroge.

[Tamaki Sakura]

Plot and nukige are mutually exclusive, but well-written nukige and sex-heavy games with good plots are both things that exist.