Donald Trump Megathread

[Nosebleed]

[Deep Blue]

Damn I only went away for 2 days and I missed everything on this hugh mungus post

[Soulless Watcher]

49 minutes ago, Deep Blue said:

Damn I only went away for 2 days and I missed everything on this hugh mungus post

Well technically it's like three different threads Frankensteined together. 

[SeiZui]

Id vote for Donald Trump...i'd rather vote for the devil himself rather than  Clinton... trump for me is the lesser evil...It's a task to think any positive outcome either of two if they win . No real important issues were being attended to like reassessment of the US foreign policy and addresing the excessive power of the US executive brance or role of money in politics perhaps. Trump really seem as a racist anti-muslim,anti-political establishment and gives off a business-as-usual vibe. I'm looking for the unpredictability of what trump can do. . . maybe it's his Trump card ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).. God bless America

[Soulless Watcher]

9 minutes ago, SeiZui said:

 No real important issues were being attended to like reassessment of the US foreign policy and addresing the excessive power of the US executive brance or role of money in politics perhaps.

What are you talking about? Trump talked a bunch about foreign policy, like how he was going to pull out troops from South Korea and give them nukes instead. There was also the time he said that NATO would have to pay the USA for any assistance against a possible Russian invasion. 

[Deep Blue]

28 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

Well technically it's like three different threads Frankensteined together. 

yeah i missed to much

[Kuma]

14 minutes ago, Deep Blue said:

yeah i missed to much

The internet does not forget and never forgives.

 

But you gotta love how everyone either hates or loves Trump.

[SeiZui]

7 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

What are you talking about? Trump talked a bunch about foreign policy, like how he was going to pull out troops from South Korea and give them nukes instead. There was also the time he said that NATO would have to pay the USA for any assistance against a possible Russian invasion. 

What I thought was the reassessment/re-evaluation of the foreign policy like what part of the international and political context to be understood by the state for better foreign policy options and implementations. Those were foreign policy issues pressed by trump ,that is yet to come also somewhat different on what the previous administration would do.I was wondering if there was a need for reassessment of the foreign policy/analysis

[WinterfuryZX]

Why are the poor chaps from the contryside so eager to cancel obamacare? Do they enjoy being kicked out from hospitals? (strange hobby they have...)

[Jun Inoue]

44 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Why are the poor chaps from the contryside so eager to cancel obamacare? Do they enjoy being kicked out from hospitals? (strange hobby they have...)

The answer is as short as it's sad: Yes

Americans have a certain degree of difficulty at understanding what welfare state is and implies.
Well-being for all of the citizens? COMMUNISM, YOU MEAN!?

[Kuma]

2 hours ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Why are the poor chaps from the contryside so eager to cancel obamacare? Do they enjoy being kicked out from hospitals? (strange hobby they have...)

My guess would be masochism or some relict of the cold war. Either that or they really should check their educational system. Maybe they should, anyway. Better education and understanding of the world is never bad.

[Deep Blue]

[solidbatman]

5 hours ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Why are the poor chaps from the contryside so eager to cancel obamacare? Do they enjoy being kicked out from hospitals? (strange hobby they have...)

The poor chaps from the countryside can't afford it as it is (ie. my family; I can only go to the doctor for emergencies because our insurance really wont pay for anything else). Democrats want to expand on it to hopefully fix it, but in many people's eyes, its unfixable, and they think expansion of it will make it more expensive for them. They aren't eager to be kicked out of hospitals, they are eager to not be paying most of their income on medical insurance, like it was before Obamacare. Only then, god forbid you have a pre-existing condition, or were a student. 

Over simplifying, or dismissing the concerns of those poor chaps is unhelpful, and part of the reason the Democrats lost the working class white vote. 

[WinterfuryZX]

Do you mean health insurance costs for the people outside of obama care actually increased? I read something like that, but obamacare was a step in the right direction, you should get rid of Usa health care system asap. Even with our corrupted health care system where everyone involved steals a share of public fund, medical expenses are only 9% of the GDP, in the  USA they are like 17%. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by WinterfuryZX

[Jun Inoue]

5 hours ago, solidbatman said:

The poor chaps from the countryside can't afford it as it is (ie. my family; I can only go to the doctor for emergencies because our insurance really wont pay for anything else). Democrats want to expand on it to hopefully fix it, but in many people's eyes, its unfixable, and they think expansion of it will make it more expensive for them. They aren't eager to be kicked out of hospitals, they are eager to not be paying most of their income on medical insurance, like it was before Obamacare. Only then, god forbid you have a pre-existing condition, or were a student. 

Over simplifying, or dismissing the concerns of those poor chaps is unhelpful, and part of the reason the Democrats lost the working class white vote. 

It's a culture shock for many. Especially for Europeans, who see smth so basic, obvious and core to us, regarded as "unattainable" or "communist-like."

[Valmore]

On 11/11/2016 at 1:56 PM, solidbatman said:

white people amirite? 

Considering Trump did slightly better with black people and Hispanic people than Mitt Romney did... how weird is that?

[solidbatman]

1 hour ago, Jun Inoue said:

It's a culture shock for many. Especially for Europeans, who see smth so basic, obvious and core to us, regarded as "unattainable" or "communist-like."

Generally, Americans do not trust their government, especially in the Southern US. They would rather see the states run the show on a local level, than a large federal government. So anything that gives the government more power, and say in their lives, they don't like. A fear of many people against universal healthcare, is the government telling them what they can and cant have treated, where they can and can't go, and eventually, what some have labeled, "death panels" where the terminally ill, mentally ill, or elderly are denied healthcare to save costs. You can laugh at that fear all you want, but, at least here in the southern US, we are taught to not trust the federal government, to work more on the state level. This argument, strong federal gov't vs. strong state gov't goes all the way back to 1783 when the government was being set up with the Articles of Confederation, and again in 1789 with the Constitution. 

The irony in all of this, is the fact that many of these people want the government to dictate lifestyles and keep the LGBT community chained down. 

[Jun Inoue]

15 minutes ago, solidbatman said:

Generally, Americans do not trust their government, especially in the Southern US. They would rather see the states run the show on a local level, than a large federal government. So anything that gives the government more power, and say in their lives, they don't like. A fear of many people against universal healthcare, is the government telling them what they can and cant have treated, where they can and can't go, and eventually, what some have labeled, "death panels" where the terminally ill, mentally ill, or elderly are denied healthcare to save costs. You can laugh at that fear all you want, but, at least here in the southern US, we are taught to not trust the federal government, to work more on the state level. This argument, strong federal gov't vs. strong state gov't goes all the way back to 1783 when the government was being set up with the Articles of Confederation, and again in 1789 with the Constitution. 

The irony in all of this, is the fact that many of these people want the government to dictate lifestyles and keep the LGBT community chained down. 

Well, I'd laugh at it if it wasn't such a terrible situation. It's more like a sigh of desperation. It does feel like the US has its fair share of problems and evils due to a fear of losing "local power" or "culture." I'd say another great example is the huge perma-discussion on weapon control. It's insane how much of a problem it's in the US, and how so many people are absolutely against any form of control no matter how bad things might get.

[Valmore]

There's also that sense in the South and other places that they really dislike being looked down upon by those in other areas, also known as elitism. Maybe it's real, imagined or unintentional, but those that have higher educations from the North and West Coast are seen as elitist and trying to tell how everyone else should be "because they're right and we're wrong." It was a big problem Al Gore had in 2000, whether it was there or not, and it's something that's prevalent today. Basically, the perception of a know-it-all asshole telling you what to do can really hurt a candidate. Clinton has always struggled to really resonate with that sort of voter - let's face it it, it's hard to argue about "white privilege" when you're a walking example of it. (Yes, Trump is also a walking example, but it's not an unspoken part of his platform.) Whether Hillary did something criminal or not, the view is that her being rich and powerful let her get away with things others can't. Her daughter they tout about? Private school educated, hedge fund manager, hasn't done a real day of work in her entire life. That's great for her, but it's textbook elitism. Yes, Trump's kids are the same. But because Trump didn't come off as elitist (and his kids are much less well known, aside from Ivanka) and Clinton did, his kids didn't really hurt him, but I really don't think Chelsea helped Hillary at all and may have hurt.

A lot of the gun control boils down to the fact that we have a mess of gun laws that aren't enforced very well anyway, and adding more really doesn't help. We really need some sort of clean up on gun control. The one snag is that there's a group that doesn't want to ban assault-style weapons. The other main issue, really, is we need better mental health care attention in America. The mass shootings you see pop up every so often are usually (not always) the result of some white kid not right in the head seeking revenge or attention or both.

Which brings up another point that sounds laughable but is actually a large factor. In the race to be inclusive, the straight white male is being shut out and shouted down. Equality for all is a wonderful goal that needs to be reached, but you can't do it by exclusively shouting down one group, just because they have the "misfortune" of being born like the previous ruling class. If you keep saying to them, "You voted against Obama because you're racist," or "You voted against Hillary because you're sexist," and on and on, you're only inviting them to keep doing the same. That's not to say there aren't sexist, racist votes (there are), but to counter that there's another ugly truth - there are people who only voted for Obama because he's black, for Hillary because she's female. Obviously not everyone who voted for those two are like that, but you can't get away with saying that. Tell someone they only voted for Obama because he's black and you're going to get nailed by tons of people. Tell someone they only voted for Trump because he's white or male? Crickets, or agreement. Does that sound acceptable? If it does, you're part of the reason why Trump won. The country is becoming more inclusive, but the straight white male isn't going anywhere and if you want them to see things your way, you have to be as inclusive to them as well and listen to them and what they have to say.

We're a pretty darn good country, and we still will be. But we have some issues that need to be ironed out.

[Soulless Watcher]

44 minutes ago, Valmore said:

 But because Trump didn't come off as elitist and Clinton did....

So, because he talks like a grade schooler he doesn't sound like part of the upper class? I genuinely don't know what else about him doesn't ooze elitism.

44 minutes ago, Valmore said:

The country is becoming more inclusive, but the straight white male isn't going anywhere and if you want them to see things your way, you have to be as inclusive to them as well and listen to them and what they have to say.

Yeah, I mean it is like only 70% of congress that is comprised of white men. Although god knows how many of them are closeted gays.  We got to be careful that we don't alienate them when making important decisions regarding the country. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by Soulless Watcher

[Valmore]

32 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

So, because he talks like a grade schooler he doesn't sound like part of the upper class? I genuinely don't know what else about him doesn't ooze elitism.

Yeah, I mean it is like only 70% of congress that is comprised of white men. Although god knows how many of them are closeted gays.  We got to be careful that we don't alienate them when making important decisions regarding the country. 

Hey, I said the guy is clearly an elite, but he managed to present himself as something else (even if it is a con, which it is).

This is the attitude that got you Trump in the first place. Did you not notice some of the Heartland that went for Obama went for Trump, like Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania? Think white dudes may have made a difference there? Inclusion means everyone, and while the candidates themselves may not foster an image or directly be non-inclusive, their followers have certainly been more than willing to shout down those white guys. Thing is, they're people just like everyone else. And not all white guys have it so easy, and they're not all Congressmen and Wall Street Bankers. But if a particular party's members and followers keep acting like they're all just privileged white guys that can be ignored, don't be surprised when you get a result like this.

[Kenshin_sama]

32 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

So, because he talks like a grade schooler he doesn't sound like part of the upper class? I genuinely don't know what else about him doesn't ooze elitism.

It really depends on your perception. To many, he doesn't come off as elitist because his message resonates with what people are thinking, and he seems authentic when he talks.

[Soulless Watcher]

27 minutes ago, Valmore said:

This is the attitude that got you Trump in the first place. Did you not notice some of the Heartland that went for Obama went for Trump, like Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania? Think white dudes may have made a difference there? Inclusion means everyone, and while the candidates themselves may not foster an image or directly be non-inclusive, their followers have certainly been more than willing to shout down those white guys. Thing is, they're people just like everyone else. And not all white guys have it so easy, and they're not all Congressmen and Wall Street Bankers. But if a particular party's members and followers keep acting like they're all just privileged white guys that can be ignored, don't be surprised when you get a result like this.

Ok, I may be misunderstanding something or I have simply not stumbled across the right news or comment sections. I have not personally observed anything that indicates that there is a mass movement to suppress the "white man's" voice, I fully admit that I may just not be aware of it since I don't get out of the house much. It's just usually when I hear about white dudes complaining about their rights being violated or being "shamed" for their race it's because of something like a cakeshop being forced to serve a gay couple, or African american students being bussed into a white school, or because the movie 12 Years a Slave exists.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Soulless Watcher

[Kenshin_sama]

15 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

Ok, I may be misunderstanding something or I have simply not stumbled across the right news or comment sections. I have not personally observed anything that indicates that there is a mass movement to suppress the "white mans" voice, I fully admit that I may just not be aware of it since I don't get out of the house much. It's just usually when I see white dude complaining about their rights being violated or being "shamed" for their race it's because of something like a cakeshop being forced to serve a gay couple, or African american students being bussed into a white school, or because the movie 12 Years a Slave exists.

And see, this is where I think people should stop fighting with each other and unite under a better cause. It doesn't help at all that white people are fighting with minorities and homosexuals, and vice versa. What Americans need to realize is that everybody has it rough because of the oligarchs stealing our government and creating an economy that only works for them. Trump is far from the solution though; what we need to do is fight corruption at its core using the ballot initiate. And believe it or not, we're doing a really good job of that (I've posted this link before, but I thought I'd bring it up again for relevancy).                    

[Soulless Watcher]

@Kenshin_sama Huh, I didn't hear about this. That article is actually really encouraging.