Donald Trump Megathread

[Jun Inoue]

1 minute ago, Prinny said:

No. Consequently it is a FACT. Confusing it with a responsibility does nothing than inflicting an imaginary burden on those that do not live in poorest condition. You say we have a responsibility because the generations that came before us worked their buttocks off to give us what we have?

Uh, yeah. That's why I said we should use our time trying to change something instead of playing "whose fault was it?" on the internet. Nobody said that we should not be conscious about our own existence. Is it even possible to be unconscious about it? And yes the world is still a jungle. The only difference is that the "loser" gets to whine on the internet instead of being killed. That's how all life in existence is. Nobody wants to get in a position where it is less comfy than before. If you can't fit in, you create your own place in it and if you can't do that, you die out. Natural selection. Nobody can say that it isn't a part of modern society. Saying that's wrong is like saying "No, it's not raining. My hair is not wet and I won't catch a cold." when in some heavy rainfall. Some things can't be changed by human virtue alone.

You want to tell a german about "refusing to accept responsibility for past actions"? We still pay for the crimes of some austrian madman. Being passive about something you can't change and accepting it are two different things. And having an advantage = others having disadvantages is kinda cute. How do you define "advantage" and "disadvantage" and how is it possible for everyone to have the same definition?

You seem to know your way around this area more than me. And my statement was never directed at you but at humanity as a whole. the whole second half was. Sorry if you felt adressed.

You pretty much said it. As a German, you know that people simply sometimes have a responsibility due to their background. And like I said, it's not smth to feel bad about, or even feel like you "owe" smth to the world. But even that is a bit different. What happened with Hitler didn't benefit you in any way, it's just a black mark on history.

What I'm talking about is inherent advantages. I, for example, am a white male, and for that I have certain advantages that I simply cannot deny because there are both many and obvious. I don't allow anyone to even try to make me feel bad for it, but I do realise I have a responsibility because being a white male passively benefits me in life (the difference to nationality, which doesn't really play a part). I'm not a saint nor do I dedicate my life to the well being of humanity and the universe, but there's a big distance between that and doing nothing, or even refusing to accept it.

Which is why I don't accept sexism or racism as an acceptable thing, be it here or around my irl. Because trying to make things at least more equal, when it only demands some attention and effort from me, is an obvious responsibility to me. There's no escaping it, people are born with advantages and disadvantages, and it's not a topic or a discussion about fairness or destiny. We are who we are and, then, it comes to what we decide to do. I personally decide to put my little bit of sand, and to accept who, and what, I am.

[bigfatround0]

Just now, Darklord Rooke said:

Internet culture is an oxymoron though.

Anyway, the Fuwanovel forums was built to be a respectful place where people didn't have to deal with unwanted abuse. Because of this, rule number 1 on the Fuwanovel Rules thread (found in the Introduction forums) is 'no insulting other users'. Personal attacks are included.

I don't think you can say this forum was created to be a "respectful place" when those rules were posted last year. From what I remember, this place was actually not that heavily moderated until like a year or two ago.

[Darklord Rooke]

1 minute ago, bigfatround0 said:

I don't think you can say this forum was created to be a "respectful place" when those rules were posted last year. From what I remember, this place was actually not that heavily moderated until like a year or two ago.

It was one of the main objectives of Fuwanovel from its conception, and it's been talked about many times. Rules were added later to reinforce this, mainly because smaller communities often don't need codified rules or heavy mod policing. Problems occur when communities expand.

http://fuwanovel.net/about-us/ It's still listed at the number one goal on the Fuwanovel about page.

[bigfatround0]

4 minutes ago, Darklord Rooke said:

It was one of the main objectives of Fuwanovel from its conception, and it's been talked about many times. Rules were added later to reinforce this, mainly because smaller communities often don't need codified rules or heavy mod policing. Problems occur when communities expand.

http://fuwanovel.net/about-us/ It's still listed at the number one goal on the Fuwanovel about page.

Hasn't this community actually been shrinking? I remember there used to be more activity a few years ago.

Edited November 14, 2016 by bigfatround0

[Darklord Rooke]

3 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said:

Hasn't this community actually been shrinking? I remember there used to be more activity a few years ago.

Doesn't seem to be. And it used to be a lot smaller 'back in the day'.

[Kuma]

17 minutes ago, Jun Inoue said:

And like I said, it's not smth to feel bad about, or even feel like you "owe" smth to the world. But even that is a bit different.

What I'm talking about is inherent advantages. I, for example, am a white male, and for that I have certain advantages that I simply cannot deny because there are both many and obvious. I don't allow anyone to even try to make me feel bad for it, but I do realise I have a responsibility because being a white male passively benefits me in life (the difference to nationality, which doesn't really play a part). I'm not a saint nor do I dedicate my life to the well being of humanity and the universe, but there's a big distance between that and doing nothing, or even refusing to accept it.

Which is why I don't accept sexism or racism as an acceptable thing, be it here or around my irl. Because trying to make things at least more equal, when it only demands some attention and effort from me, is an obvious responsibility to me. There's no escaping it, people are born with advantages and disadvantages, and it's not a topic or a discussion about fairness or destiny. We are who we are and, then, it comes to what we decide to do. I personally decide to put my little bit of sand, and to accept who, and what, I am.

You might have a point but I still think you somehow link "facts"  to be synonym with "responsibility".

Seeing the world in only black and white (no racist pun intended) is one way to live, but you kinda sound a bit preachy about your way of life. Changing the world is all fine and good but "blaming" people for not being part of the change is... it makes it sound like you're forcing you views onto everyone else. You might be right. Your way of doing things might be good. But some people do not want to be told that their way of doing things is wrong. That's the best way to get enemies.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Prinny

[EastCoastDrifter]

Just now, Darklord Rooke said:

Doesn't seem to be. And it used to be a lot smaller 'back in the day'.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't Fuwanovel used to distribute torrent links in the past? I think I recall that being the case back when I was just a lone internet lurker.

[Kaguya]

3 minutes ago, KonpekiUmi said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't Fuwanovel used to distribute torrent links in the past? I think I recall that being the case back when I was just a lone internet lurker.

Yep, we did that a couple of years ago. 

[Jun Inoue]

1 minute ago, Prinny said:

You do have a point but I still think you somehow link "facts"  to be synonym with "responsibility".

Seeing the world in only black and white (no racist pun intended) is one way to live, but you kinda sound a bit preachy about your way of life. Changing the world is all fine and good but "blaming" people for not being part of the change is... it makes it sound like you're forcing you views onto everyone else. You might be right. Your way of doing things might be good. But some people do not want to be told that their way of doing things is wrong. That's the best way to get enemies.

More like I was linking responsibility as a consequence of those facts. As in "this is pretty much reality, and a responsibility is born from the fact that we live in this world."

I do sound preachy, but here you can think back to the example I mentioned about bullying in school. It's not about being black or white, but rather that if you know bullying is happening right in front of your eyes, you know it's wrong, you know someone is taking the bullet for it and your decision is "meh, I'm not the victim so who cares" well, wouldn't you say that's a pretty sucky attitude? It's not smth as extreme as "you are either the answer or the problem," but I'd argue it is a case of the vast majority of people being the silent element that ducks and walks away, happy enough that someone's paying the broken dishes but that since they are not the ones doing the bullying, no one can really fault them for anything. This is a case of "let's all just look after ourselves, and we'll see how the world ends up."

Like I said, I personally decided I didn't want to be any longer part of the group that pats itself on the back and thinks "I'm not actively being an ass, so whatever, no one can blame me for society." I might be preachy, but I'd say this stings a lot of people because they see themselves in the examples I mentioned. And, well, no one likes being told that they are actually part of the people that allow these problems to exist and persist. No one wants to be neither the evil guy, nor the sucky ass the spectators dislike with a passion.

[EastCoastDrifter]

1 minute ago, Kaguya said:

Yep, we did that a couple of years ago. 

Ah... No wonder why most of my anime friends then told me to not go to Fuwanovel because they said it was for pirating. I'm guessing this changed now huh?

[Kaguya]

Just now, KonpekiUmi said:

Ah... No wonder why most of my anime friends then told me to not go to Fuwanovel because they said it was for pirating. I'm guessing this changed now huh?

Yes. Our main goal, as grandiose as it is for small forums, has always been to "make visual novels popular in the west." Aaeru's vision (our creator) was incredibly pro-piracy, and she thought that making visual novels easily accessible to everyone would be able to do that.

After she left, and our leadership changed, so did our ways. The core of the site is still the same, though.

[EastCoastDrifter]

1 minute ago, Kaguya said:

Yes. Our main goal, as grandiose as it is for small forums, has always been to "make visual novels popular in the west." Aaeru's vision (our creator) was incredibly pro-piracy, and she thought that making visual novels easily accessible to everyone would be able to do that.

After she left, and our leadership changed, so did our ways. The core of the site is still the same, though.

I'm glad you made this change for the better. It'll help this community grow as a legitimate forum site, and I for one do not support piracy.

[Tyr]

1 hour ago, Jun Inoue said:

As I said, the responsibility is inherent. Do you deny having an inherent advantage due to your background? With your answer, it seems you don't deny it. Consequently, there IS a responsibility. Maybe the problem is that you are misunderstanding the message.

I don't deny having an advantage in some regards (as I have disadvantages in others), but I strongly deny that some kind of responsibility is a result of that.
Responsibility is something that you decide for yourself to have, based on your own values and morals. No one can give you social responsibilities based on his own ideologies.

Exactly for these reasons people find this social justice mentality so repulsive. We don't want to be told we have to care. Caring is something that needs to come from your own heart, not because other people tell you to do so.

44 minutes ago, Jun Inoue said:

wouldn't you say that's a pretty sucky attitude?

Yes, but it is not for me to decide whether he has to feel bad about it or not.
Maybe I would tell him that he sucks, because I believe that this is the right course of action. Maybe then he would think that I'm right and change his way of behavior.
But it's also possible that he doesn't care what I think or that he actually understands that he has a sucky attitude and is perfectly fine with it, maybe even proud to be the gangsta he is. And he has the right to think this way, just as I have the right to think of him as scum.

You can't expect everyone to have the same moral grounds as you. You can't take your own ideology and say that this is the best and only good way of living. It may be for you, but everyone else has to decide for themselves and they have the freedom to disagree with your views.

 

1 hour ago, Darklord Rooke said:

Internet culture is an oxymoron though.

If there is one thing, I would probably agree with Millennials on, then that the Internet is indeed culture. Sorry Rooke, but that is a very narrow-minded view you have here.
For example, you may not like 4chan, but denying that 4chan is a big part of modern culture is simply just close-minded.

1 hour ago, Darklord Rooke said:

Anyway, the Fuwanovel forums was built to be a respectful place where people didn't have to deal with unwanted abuse. Because of this, rule number 1 on the Fuwanovel Rules thread (found in the Introduction forums) is 'no insulting other users'. Personal attacks are included.

Some fragile minds have difficulties with differentiating harmless banter from vicious insults. Sadly, that is a very big problem here on Fuwa.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Tyrosyn

[Jun Inoue]

2 minutes ago, Tyrosyn said:

I don't deny having an advantage in some regards (as I have disadvantages in others), but I strongly deny that some kind of responsibility is a result of that.
Responsibility is something that you decide for yourself to have, based on your own values and morals. No one can give you social responsibilities based on his own ideologies.

Exactly for these reasons people find this social justice mentality so repulsive. We don't want to be told we have to care. Caring is something that needs to come from your own heart, not because other people tell you so.

Yes, but it is not for me to decide whether he has to feel bad about it or not.
Maybe I would tell him that he sucks, because I believe that this is the right course of action. Maybe then he would think that I'm right and change his way of behavior.
But it's also possible that he doesn't care what I think or that he actually understands that he has a sucky attitude and is perfectly fine with it, maybe even proud to be the gangsta he is. And he has the right to think this way, just as I have the right to think of him as scum.

You can't expect everyone to have the same moral grounds as you. You can't take your own ideology and say that this is the best and only good way of living. It might be for you, everyone else has to decide for themselves and they have the freedom to disagree with your views.

I'm not sure I even need to answer, since you yourself argued your own points. So you accept the argument, but refuse the premise of there being a responsibility because it depends on the individual's morals? Well, that IS what I said. But I don't really think it's a "view" to say that sexism and racism is bad. You don't find them bad, or at least bad enough to demand an actual conscious effort not to be so? Well, good for you I guess, but this is not a case of difference in opinions, it's a case of you saying "yeah I might be sexist but I don't care." If you don't feel any responsibility, that's your own stuff, but I very much doubt there's any argument to be had about that not being smth bad.

People find that moral justice repulsive because they don't wanna know that being sexist and/or racist is bad? Uhm... knock knock, the real world is here. And, as I said about 3 or 4 times, it has nothing to do with feeling bad. A responsibility is, believe it or not... a responsibility. You can do smth or not do anything at all, that's another topic, but bearing a responsibility does not depend on your moral compass, unless you are trying to convince me that racism is not smth bad.

I can't expect, and I don't, people to have the same views as me, but that doesn't change anything I've said. People will still have part of their identity depend on who they are, and that comes hand-in-hand with a responsibility. People then can decide how they feel about it and how to act in consequence with their lives, but there's no real case to argue since you cannot just say "lies, I refuse to believe I've had such advantages and hence reject having to think of other people."

Freedom of thought does not mean that all ideologies/thoughts are fine/correct, but merely that you are free of having them. This responsibility will still exist, and deciding you don't care about sexism/racism/etc will still be smth bad, not good. It's unrelated to whether people will act on it or not, or how they'll feel about it. They are free to think whatever they want, but it won't make their refusal of their background any less real or their inherent responsibility any lesser.

[ExtraMana]

On 11/13/2016 at 2:27 PM, bigfatround0 said:

Like I said, there are some people that believe it but they're a small enough number that they don't make much of a difference.

Are you even American? If that's your youtube channel then you're clearly not from the US. In that case your comment isn't really relevant here.

Telling me I'm 'not relevant' and then discounting the fact that racism towards whites has become acceptable to the point where it's permeated into Universities across the World. Tell me did you vote for Hillary? And since the election is often referred to as America's Brexit, a referendum in which you can be sure I voted in, I think it would pay you better mind than to discount other Countiries on such a whim.

 

On 11/13/2016 at 3:47 PM, KonpekiUmi said:

This entire thread(s) is a mistake. Now users are turning on each other over ideologies and personal opinions.

Correction: Hillary supporters are turning on others personally.

Edited November 14, 2016 by ExtraMana

[bigfatround0]

3 hours ago, ExtraMana said:

Telling me I'm 'not relevant' and then discounting the fact that racism towards whites has become acceptable to the point where it's permeated into Universities across the World. Tell me did you vote for Hillary? And since the election is often referred to as America's Brexit, a referendum in which you can be sure I voted in, I think it would pay you better mind than to discount other Countiries on such a whim.

I'm not discounting anything. This thread is about Trump getting elected as the US president and my comment was talking about a problem the US is facing. You being from Britain and your experience isn't really relevant here. And racism against whites has not become acceptable. I don't know what news you watch or what websites you frequent but it's a very minor problem in the real world. Also why would it matter if I did vote for her? She was the only decent choice.

3 hours ago, ExtraMana said:

Correction: Hillary supporters are turning on others personally.

Have we been reading the same thread? Why does Trump resonate with you? Because you're tired of non-whites gaining a major foothold in your country?

Now before you guys start calling me racist or whatever I just want to mention that I am considered white in the US and that I'm not one of those people that think white people can't be victims of racism. I've seen it happen to a friend before.

Edited November 14, 2016 by bigfatround0

[solidbatman]

7 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said:

I'm not discounting anything. This thread is about Trump getting elected as the US president and my comment was talking about a problem the US is facing. You being from Britain and your experience isn't really relevant here. And why would it matter if I did vote for her? She was the only decent choice.

Have we been reading the same thread? Why does Trump resonate with you? Because you're tired of non-whites gaining a major foothold in your country?

Now before you guys start calling me racist or whatever I just want to mention that I am considered white in the US and that I'm not one of those people that think white people can't be victims of racism. I've seen it happen to a friend before.

I think, to maybe phrase it better, is that many Trump supporters feel demonized by the left, simply because they don't agree with many policy proposals by the left. For example, I don't care for Bernie Sanders because of the effects his tax plan would have on my 401k (basically make it pointless for me to put any money into it). However, when voicing that opinion, I could find myself being told that I don't care about the poor, or that I don't care about college student loans (despite the fact I have about $8k in debt right now) etc etc. 

So to place that on the Trump v Clinton level. You get many of the progressive left calling out the more conservative whites as racists, and bigots. Why? Sure, racists exist on the right, and likely in higher numbers. But most people voting for Trump, I've seen, are not voting for him because of racial issues. They aren't voting for him because he plans to build a wall (the press would lead you to believe that is the only reason). Many of them voted for him because their voices are not being heard by the left. Being a rural, poor, white person essentially leaves you abandoned by politicians. The Democrats ignored them for years, focusing instead only on building a coalition of minorities to propel them to offices across the nation. It worked too, because you had a good person running the show with Obama, who I feel was not a great president, but also is not a terrible one. He did what he thought was best for the nation. 

Clinton on the other hand is perceived as corrupt, and uncaring by those poor rural whites. She only wants to pander to minorities and feminists in their eyes. They might not be right, but perception is everything, and she did almost nothing to counter that. Her husband recognized this and thats why many sources said he was very angry at Hillary's campaign staff. Bernie Sanders has also recognized it, saying that it was embarrassing for the Democrats to lose so badly with that demographic. 

Unfortunately, in the immediate aftermath of the election, many mainstream dems still have yet to figure this out, and continue to label Trump supporters as racists, bigots, misogynists, homophobic and so on. Unfairly demonizing the very people you need to rely on to win elections is well... not a winning plan by any stretch of the imagination. 

 

And before you try to label me a Trump supporter, I can't stand Donald Trump. He is a terrible human being, and a terrible choice for President, but I also recognize why he won, and how he won. And it needs to be a lesson that everyone's genuine problems should matter. Dismissing someone's problem because they are privileged is just as bad as telling someone they aren't human because they are transgendered, or are a criminal because of their race. It only serves to divide people up even more. 

 

I just want to dispel the notion that all Trump supporters voted for him to bring back Jim Crow laws, or to put BLM members in jail or whatever. Most of them voted for him, because no one else would listen to their voices, and their problems. 

[bigfatround0]

14 minutes ago, solidbatman said:

long ass text

I agree with you on everything except that the majority of left leaning people are calling Trump supporters racist. I've seen it happen but I've seen more of the extremely right leaning Trump supporters actually saying racist shit about minorities and about the First Family. It's a self fulfilling prophecy created by the racist Trump supporters.

Edited November 14, 2016 by bigfatround0

[solidbatman]

2 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said:

I agree with you on everything except that the majority of left leaning people are calling Trump supporters racist. I've seen it happen but I've seen more of the extremely right leaning Trump supporters actually saying racist shit about left leaning minorities and about the First Family.

Deplorable on both sides I'm afraid  

[Soulless Watcher]

Depression intensifies

 

 

[Zakamutt]

Gah, I enjoy last week tonight, why'd they have to restrict this one

[Kenshin_sama]

2 hours ago, Zakamutt said:

Gah, I enjoy last week tonight, why'd they have to restrict this one

You can bypass the restriction by replacing /watch?v= with /v/. Try this link instead.

[Zakamutt]

2 minutes ago, Kenshin_sama said:

You can bypass the restriction by replacing /watch?v= with /v/. Try this link instead.

Sadly, same thing happens with your link. I was able to watch it using https://www.proxysite.com/youtube/ though.

[Kenshin_sama]

1 minute ago, Zakamutt said:

Sadly, same thing happens with your link. I was able to watch it using https://www.proxysite.com/youtube/ though.

Really? That use to work for me, but I guess it has been a while since I last tried. Thanks for link though; I'll have to bookmark this. Glad you're able to watch it.

[Tyr]

Yeah, I had to pirate this episode too.

But it's better that not many people can see it as it's the worst Last Week Tonight episode by far. I'm actually kind of offended by how bad it is even though I'm already not a fan of it.

Instead of trying to build bridges which is the most important thing right now, Oliver fuels the hate and dividedness even more.
I know how much of a libtard John Oliver is, but saying that journalists should report biased and opinionated (if they have the right opinion that is lol) is one of the worst things he said in his show. I also like how he spends ten minutes telling us that Trump is a liar and we should feel guilty for not voting for Hillary. Oh the irony!

In the end he blames everyone but himself for the end of the world which is apparently right now. So much unironic self-righteousness, it's kinda disgusting. It's like he's desperately trying to prove his critics right: "This show makes people dumb."