Umineko Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Mr Poltroon]

17 hours ago, kokoro said:

I never understood what happened in Episode 4. 

 

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Did everyone just played along to fool Battler for shit and giggles? I can't believe Sayo and the servants could overpower the rest of the family tbh.

Spoiler

Ultimately the family must have cooperated in some way. The most likely way was that Sayo solved the epitaph and managed to get acknowledged by the relatives, requesting their cooperation to fool Battler, separate them, and pick them off without their knowledge.

Why they would cooperate and not simply say the gold was theirs is a good question. The most intuitive reason I can think of is that Sayo brought a few ingots and showed them, proving she had solved the epitaph, but if she did not share the location the relatives would get nothing, so they cooperated in order to get shares promised to them.

Any number of lies, such as telling Jessica to say what she did on the phone in order to test Battler in an emergency to see if he's worthy of a share could've worked.

 

[kokoro]

52 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Ultimately the family must have cooperated in some way. The most likely way was that Sayo solved the epitaph and managed to get acknowledged by the relatives, requesting their cooperation to fool Battler, separate them, and pick them off without their knowledge.

Why they would cooperate and not simply say the gold was theirs is a good question. The most intuitive reason I can think of is that Sayo brought a few ingots and showed them, proving she had solved the epitaph, but if she did not share the location the relatives would get nothing, so they cooperated in order to get shares promised to them.

Any number of lies, such as telling Jessica to say what she did on the phone in order to test Battler in an emergency to see if he's worthy of a share could've worked.

 

Yeah that could work.

 

Still, why would Kyrie and Jessica go out of their way to lie to Battler even though they were about to die baffles me. Maybe they thought they could save their lives if they played along.

Would’ve really appreciated if R07

 

did a Meakashi and Tsumihoroboshi version of Episode 1 to 4 instead of giving some ambiguous truths in a few lines in Episode 7

Edited September 24, 2020 by kokoro

[Mr Poltroon]

1 hour ago, kokoro said:

Spoiler

Still, why would Kyrie and Jessica go out of their way to lie to Battler even though they were about to die baffles me. Maybe they thought they could save their lives if they played along.

 

Spoiler

That's what I mean. There is no reason to believe they knew they were going to die. For all we know they were asked to pretend in order to test Battler in some way and then got killed.

But yeah. I understand why it'd be nice to have some clear solutions, since people enjoy these things differently.

 

[kokoro]

On 9/24/2020 at 5:45 PM, Mr Poltroon said:

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That's what I mean. There is no reason to believe they knew they were going to die. For all we know they were asked to pretend in order to test Battler in some way and then got killed.

But yeah. I understand why it'd be nice to have some clear solutions, since people enjoy these things differently.

 

Maybe not knowing the ‘truth’ is actually for the best in Umineko’s case. The main message I get from it is that feelings are worth more than any objective truth. I think it’s a powerful message. I’m glad I read this vn even though I hated it at first.

[littleshogun]

Spoiler

Considering on what the manga tell us about the truth, make sense that it would be the best to not knowing it (To Ange at the very least).

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by littleshogun

[Silvz]

12 hours ago, kokoro said:

 

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Maybe not knowing the ‘truth’ is actually for the best in Umineko’s case. The main message I get from it is that feelings are worth more than any objective truth. I think it’s a powerful message. I’m glad I read this vn even though I hated it at first.

this is exactly the message of Umineko! Glad that you reached it

[kokoro]

4 hours ago, Silvz said:

this is exactly the message of Umineko! Glad that you reached it

Too bad chiru anime never ever

[Silvz]

9 hours ago, kokoro said:

Too bad chiru anime never ever

that's actually a good thing, since the first season was terrible

[alpacaman]

So I'm currently re-reading episode 1 (at a very slow pace since I only pick it up when I have the mental capacity to properly process it, wich sadly isn't that often at the moment) and it's even better than I remember. There are just so many clever details I completely missed the first time. Like how the narration switches from first person to third person in the scene where Maria reads the letter after dinner. Which is such a hilarious scene btw, with this deep female voice coming from Maria's happily smiling sprite and all the adults losing their minds not over how absurd this all is but over the prospect of losing their share of Kinzo's inheritance.

Also so far the VN is stuffed with symbolism that went over my head the first time because I read it as a mystery novel, some of it rather obvious, like the wilting rose and the charm (especially as it's directly contrasted with the gold bar). It's pretty amazing how from the start the story is constructed in way that it can be read both as a murder mystery, as a fantasy story and as what Umineko calls "with love". To use the example of the charm Maria gives to Jessica who passes it on to her mother can be read either as a literal magic charm that protects Natsuhi, a gesture of sympathy (or love) from Jessica to her mother or as a clue for who the culprit is as

Spoiler

it could have been someone who knew about the charm since they explicitely decided to spare Natsuhi after seeing the charm on her doorknob.

One other random thought I had while reading: Could it be Maria is autistic, not in the internet insult sense, but going by actual diagnostic criteria? She displays quite a few typical symptoms. In the beginning it's mentioned how her she has rather minimal facial expressions. She has a rather monotonous way of speaking (not so much in the dub, but that wasn't part of the original release), using rather simple and stereotyped speach patterns and echolalia. She lives in her own world and is neither able to pick up irony, fit in with her classmates, nor is she able to adapt to different social contexts. She also displays some compulsive behavioural patterns, like when she obsesses over the wilting rose and even heavy rain cannot stop her from keeping up her search for it.

[Dreamysyu]

Well, I think most Ryukishi's VNs need to be read at least twice if you want to properly understand them. I personally read Higurashi after I already watched the anime adaptations, and I was really impressed with how well-written and filled with small unnoticeable details it was. To be honest, I think that it probably made me enjoy it even more than if I read it blind. The problem with Umineko is that it's just way too long. I've been wanting to reread it for years, but, honestly, I just don't want to spend 100 more hours on a story that I already know, no matter how much I love that story. Even if it probably deserves it, but, well...