Logo Contest Feedback

[Nosebleed]

Again, it might be useful to actually read what Zodai wrote.

What do you think the coma and the 'or' mean? 

It means that they aren't all for the same contest, he's giving examples of potential themes for various contests. 1 theme per contest.

Or do you actually plan to have all the contests with the same theme?

No they won't all be the same theme. 

I guess I am too sleep deprived to think clearly and notice what he was just doing was suggesting themes.

Theme suggestions are appreciated. Sorry for being incredibly blind right now. 

 

 

 

 

*sigh* By trying to defend the 2 votes thing it's just making me want to reject it more. It's becoming more and more complicated than it needs to be so here's the deal:

 

If we have 2 votes, you will be forced to vote for both. If you don't, your vote will be counted as null.

or

We keep it single vote.

 

This won't change. It's all about picking a side now.

 

My side has already been stated, single vote is simpler and quicker, it makes everything easier for everyone.

But since people complained about it I'm proposing a solution.

This is the only solution i see makes things fair enough for all participants.

If you can't agree with it then we will keep it single vote.

[Mr Poltroon]

*sigh* By trying to defend the 2 votes thing so far everyone just managed to make me want to reject it more. 

Everyone? What everyone? It was just me, mate. 

 

It's becoming more and more complicated than it needs to be so here's the deal:

 

My side has already been stated, single vote is simpler and quicker, it makes everything easier for everyone.

The only reason it's becoming more complicated than necessary is because you guys are making it so:

"Oh, god, the tirany! This is simply horrid, how DARE they make me vote twice?!!! Ridiculous, I say, outrageous! Who came up with this ludicrous idea of making us vote twice instead of once?! Can't they see that in these 15 banners only one is good and everything else is utter garbage that doesn't deserve my vote?! I refuse to vote on more than once." - An oppressed user of Fuwanovel who's being forced to vote on two banners instead of once. 

 

I honestly don't get why you say it's complicated. It's the same poll, just twice. The only rule is not to vote on the same one (and to vote, of course). Even if the rules were broken, the vote would just be nullified by the ever so eager staff.

Or is it such a sacrifice to check the votes from TWO (not one!) polls? I'll do it for you Mr. Handicap 

 

Could someone explain what makes 2 polls more complicated? Once again, I don't get it....

(I feel like I'm the handicapped one  )

[Nosebleed]

If 30 users cast votes for their first choice, then 30 users should also cast for their second one. Not 10, not 15, but all 30.

Because otherwise you're making things unballanced, the numbers won't match. It's just that simple.

 

I will make you vote for 2 banners because otherwise it won't  be fair statistically. That's all there is.

And I won't go back on this.

 

If you don't like being oppressed, then we go back to single vote which is obviously the best choice at this point.

 

And I guarantee you i'll check every vote wether it's 2 votes or 1 vote, i don't care for that factor.

[Mr Poltroon]

If 30 users cast votes for their first choice, then 30 users should also cast for their second one. Not 10, not 15, but all 30.

Because otherwise you're making things unballanced, the numbers won't match. It's just that simple.

I already conceded on this earlier... You're right. So... why did you mention it again? Did I bring it up by mistake?

 

What I'm asking is what makes two polls complicated.

For the user, all he has to do is vote twice, making sure not to vote on the same one.

For the mod, it seems you have no problem counting them.

 

So... What's all the complication about?

[Darklord Rooke]

The only reason it's becoming more complicated than necessary is because you guys are making it so:

 

*Fufufufufu*

 

What is the purpose behind the competition? Is it to vote for the banner you like the best, and the banner most people consider "the best" will be rewarded by going on the logo? If it is, then it should be a single vote. Or is it vote for the banners you like, and the "most liked" banner will be used on the logo? If it is, then you should be able to vote as many times as you like. What is this '2 vote' system supposed to represent? Vote for the banner you love, and the one which didn't quite cut it? Vote once with your heart, then vote for your mate?

 

The winning banner will represent what exactly? It's not the banner most people liked, nor is it the banner most people thought was the best. What is it exactly?

[Nosebleed]

I already conceded on this earlier... You're right. So... why did you mention it again? Did I bring it up by mistake?

 

What I'm asking is what makes two polls complicated.

For the user, all he has to do is vote twice, making sure not to vote on the same one.

For the mod, it seems you have no problem counting them.

 

So... What's all the complication about?

I was mostly refering on how this turned into such a big argument over something that should be "either pick option A or option B"

When you're sleep deprived, even small things give you a headache, really.

 

 

*Fufufufufu*

 

What is the purpose behind the competition? Is it to vote for the banner you like the best, and the banner most people consider "the best" will be rewarded by going on the logo? If it is, then it should be a single vote. Or is it vote for the banners you like, and the "most liked" banner will be used on the logo? If it is, then you should be able to vote as many times as you like. What is this '2 vote' system supposed to represent? Vote for the banner you love, and the one which didn't quite cut it? Vote once with your heart, then vote for your mate?

 

The winning banner will represent what exactly? It's not the banner most people liked, nor is it the banner most people thought was the best. What is it exactly?

I'm mostly sold on remaining single vote at this point to be honest.

It just makes it an actual contest which is the purpose of it to begin with. 

 

But I tried coming up with a solution to see if people were interested since it was brought up last time. It seems that most are not now, or if they are they didn't post about it.

 

Thus I think I'll scrap the 2 vote thing at this point. I don't want to go on an endless loop.

[Mr Poltroon]

What is the purpose behind the competition? Is it to vote for the banner you like the best, and the banner most people consider "the best" will be rewarded by going on the logo? If it is, then it should be a single vote. Or is it vote for the banners you like, and the "most liked" banner will be used on the logo? If it is, then you should be able to vote as many times as you like. What is this '2 vote' system supposed to represent? Vote for the banner you love, and the one which didn't quite cut it? Vote once with your heart, then vote for your mate?

 

The winning banner will represent what exactly? It's not the banner most people liked, nor is it the banner most people thought was the best. What is it exactly?

Hmm... You have a point. I personally can't say anything about this because I don't care either way.

Although it might look it, it's not like I prefer 2 votes. What I like is variation and change. And more votes means it'll be different from the last contest. 

 

As for the "most liked" system of yours... instead of using that to make a point, why don't you suggest it? Maybe the reason why we have the 2 vote system is because nobody thought of anything better. It is a feedback thread after all, suggestions are welcome. 

 

Actually, I think giving suggestions is way more efficient than throwing back and forth over whether to have chicken or beef for dinner.

[Guest]

It's just a logo... things escalated a little to quickly for such a trivial thing.

 

*The correct way to do this usually would be to - for example - make three choices who would each weight for a different amount.

first choice : 3

second choice : 2

third choice : 1

Then statistically you'll get the banner which would please the majority.*

 

Since it's not possible to do so, single voting is fair and there's not reason to change.

 

What you should think about is how to create variety in the displayed banners, trying to avoid "lolis everytim" phenomenom kind of thing.

[Darklord Rooke]

As for the "most liked" system of yours... instead of using that to make a point, why don't you suggest it? Maybe the reason why we have the 2 vote system is because nobody thought of anything better. It is a feedback thread after all, suggestions are welcome. 

 

Because I don't like it

 

But what I did was take things back to first principles. What is the purpose of the contest? I see only two goals, finding 'the best banner' or finding 'the most liked banner.' These are the two systems which (imo) best support those two goals.

 

I think trying to find 'the most liked banner' is messy though, I prefer the simplicity of a one vote system. For all those people out there who can't decide between two, I would like to suggest using a coin. A dartboard. You could blindfold yourself and point at one ...

[Nosebleed]

Updated the OP.

 

Final decision:

Further contests will remain single vote. Subject to change if there's any major changes with IPB related to how polls work.

[Mr Poltroon]

What you should think about is how to create variety in the displayed banners, trying to avoid "lolis everytim" phenomenom kind of thing.

As I mentioned before, the only reason the loli outnumbered everything else is because all the loli fans got compressed into one banner (I guess two would have been a loli as well, but going from Mare to Shinku had it's special significance).

So long as we don't have 1 highly recognizable loli and then everything else again, then this phenomenon shouldn't repeat itself.

 

 

It's just a logo... things escalated a little to quickly for such a trivial thing.

It seems everyone thinks that's the case except for me. 

The only reason there was so much arguing is because our dear Nosebleed here, is working sleep deprived, and has to have me translate everytime someone posts something, so that he gets it right.   

Other than that it was people making a fuss over, oh, how very complicated having two polls would be, and it not clicking for me how unfair it would be to have a person vote only once. (Not that I ever really understood why not just make it a rule for people to vote twice, as was later decided. Maybe oppression? Yeah, right)

[Mephisto]

Can there be an option to just use whatever banner you like? I really don't like the feathers in the shinku banner, and I'd rather not have to see it. 

[Mr Poltroon]

Can there be an option to just use whatever banner you like? I really don't like the feathers in the shinku banner, and I'd rather not have to see it. 

Way to ruin the point of all this but I believe there is. 

You'll just have to give me a couple of minutes so I can find the post that has instructions for this.

 

Here: https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/5494-complete-fuwanovel-logo-randomizer/

Edited July 26, 2014 by Tiagofvarela

[Heizei_koukousei]

I think the user made logos are pretty cool, I installed greasemonkey on my browser as soon as I read about it.

The only problem is that I wish there were more of them...

[Mr Poltroon]

I think the user made logos are pretty cool, I installed greasemonkey on my browser as soon as I read about it.

The only problem is that I wish there were more of them...

Give it time. More contests will come up eventually... Just not for a few months

 

You can always make your own! 

[solidbatman]

You guys are taking this thing way way too seriously. I saw this as just a little fun exercise for everyone and a way to get people involved. If I had known it was going to turn into such a mess I would have never suggested it. What is happening is that it is getting too complicated. My original idea was something like this:

 

1) Users submit their design(s)

2)People vote for their favorite

3)Winning design is used for a few months. 

4)Winner would not be able to take part in the next one, but would be allowed back afterwards. This would encourage variety in winners, styles, and lolis (lets face it, a loli will always win)

 

Some good changes were:

 

1)Themes (Very very good idea)

 

Again, you guys have taken this way way too seriously and are allowing it to divide people. 

 

Keep the damn thing at one vote, amd enforce the themes better (winning logo has literally nothing to do with summer aside from a lolicon's dream). Keep it simple, and don't over complicate what was to be a fun little community involvement campaign. 

[Nayleen]

^ This, and:

 

A vocal minority != a majority. You're mucking up "cute things are cute" and "*fapfapfap*", and quite frankly I would've been pretty disgusted by being thrown into the same pot as people belonging to the latter group - that is, if I voted for the option that didn't have any place in this themed contest.

 

What this "contest" turned out to be was a political shitfest, a travesty and quite eye opening as to what's really going on behind the scenes, as a small group of no-lifers and latent criminals is trying to at least seize control over a part of the website - ironically enough the one that doesn't do much to further "the cause" that gets brought up so often.

 

The only logical conclusion?

• Placing a logo of my choice back in there
• Not taking part in any of these farces in the future
• And getting others to do just the same

[Mr Poltroon]

You guys are taking this thing way way too seriously. I saw this as just a little fun exercise for everyone and a way to get people involved. If I had known it was going to turn into such a mess I would have never suggested it. What is happening is that it is getting too complicated.

From what I've seen of this thread I think it's just me vs the world really...

People complained, Nosebleed tried to address the issue, but apparently two votes is too complicated. I've got it, I don't care either way.

In the end, the idea was his so I can just say that he came up with a terrible idea.

 

Again, you guys have taken this way way too seriously and are allowing it to divide people.

Again, just who are you referring to? If anything, people became more united to make me see just how very much better a system of 1 vote is.

If you're referring to during the actual voting and all the dastardly deeds that happened back then, that's why this thread exists, for you to provide feedback on how to address said problems.

 

[Down]

 

A vocal minority != a majority. You're mucking up "cute things are cute" and "*fapfapfap*", and quite frankly I would've been pretty disgusted by being thrown into the same pot as people belonging to the latter group - that is, if I voted for the option that didn't have any place in this themed contest.

 

What this "contest" turned out to be was a political shitfest, a travesty and quite eye opening as to what's really going on behind the scenes, as a small group of no-lifers and latent criminals is trying to at least seize control over a part of the website - ironically enough the one that doesn't do much to further "the cause" that gets brought up so often.

What this contest revealed to me was how quick people are to place others into "groups" over trifling matters such as personal tastes, but more than anything then proceed to hate, which is much more disturbing.

 

You're calling people latent criminals, you throw your disgust at them, because of a sexual preference in drawn characters? Something which is supposed to be joking material? And then you even proceed to make some of them into a group of people trying to control the website? Like, seriously?

[Guest]

Wow...I had to stop reading and just skim to the bottom.  So this is what Fuwanovel's become...I'm glad I left when I did.

 

This petty arguing is just about as stupid as it gets really.  I may not have read all the childish bickering, but I did get the gist of what this here is about.  So, if you'll listen, I'll speak some sense and be on my way so my boyfriend doesn't have to be so upset about this site anymore.

 

1. Lolis: Okay, so you like little cartoon girls.  Although what defines a loli is debatable, it is clear that lolis are basically girl portrayed as prepubescent children.  All that means is that you boys like cute things, and that you probably masturbate to them.  If that's your sexual preference, then so be it.  Just like playing Shooters doesn't make you a killer, getting off to little anime girls doesn't make you a pedophile.  Boys having a sexual preference for prepubescent girls IS a natural thing, and as long as they don't break the law by acting on those preferences, then there really is no issue to be had; they're projecting their desires on fictional characters, and that's a helluva lot better than them raping little girls, like the lot of you seem to think they want to do.  Now. personally, I dislike lolis being portrayed as sex objects; but then again, I dislike any girl being portrayed as a sex object.  But hey, boys will be boys.  Now, if I've failed to get my point across, what about monster girl fettishes?  That's another niche of sexual preference, and I don't usually see them getting bashed too often.  And lolicons, you do realize what you like is a niche thing right?  I get that you like lolis, and I'm not going to judge, but can you please stop trying to force lolis all over Fuwanovel, like on the banner?  It's not because it's morally wrong, it's because there are people who just don't want to see that kinda thing that frequent Fuwanovel.  They should tolerate loli pride in your signatures and avatars, but posting that niche as our banner is a bit outlandish.  A more generic banner would be far more appropriate, one that even you guys could appreciate, such as Nagisa from Clannad; she's cute, but not a loli.  I like Yaoi, but you don't see me trying to make the boys from Dramatical Murder our banner, do you?  No, it's because I know many of you don't like that sorta thing, so I leave that for my signatures and whatnot to express my niche interests.  This is all about respecting the person next to you, and once you can do that, you're in a better place.
2. Taking this too seriously: Bats is right that a good chunk of those in here are taking this too seriously.  Hell, you even managed to make one of the ex-admins mad enough to lash out at you.  Calm down, it's just a banner.  Respect those next to you, and shut your mouths about each other.  "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."
3. Self-entitlement: Let me make one thing clear: none of you are special snowflakes who deserve everything you want.  I get you want something, that's okay, but you should never try to stomp all over others to get what you want.  That's called being a dick, so knock it off.  You should all be appreciative that the staff are even willing to work for your benefit, so you can enjoy visual novels and have a safe place to express your interests--be it lolis or yaoi or monster girls or whatever else.  
4. "I'm more important than the Staff here, so I'll just disrespect them": Not all of you, but many of you are guilty of treating the staff poorly.  As an ex-mod here at Fuwanovel, I was treated horrendously  even though all I wanted to do was work for your own benefit--by spreading VNs in the West and nurturing a safe-haven for you to express your interests.  This goes along with self-entitlement: quit thinking you deserve the world and just be thankful that these guys even care enough to work for you.  This is their site, they're in charge.  Don't like it?  Get the fuck out, okay?  Seriously.  If the staff want a certain banner to go up, even if it IS a niche one like lolis, then you or I have no right to argue.  You can express distaste for the decision, but respectfully so.
5. Trolling: And to all of you that are guilty of trolling, even if a little bit--you now who you are--stop it as well.  This is nothing but a load of crap and needs to stop if Fuwanovel is to keep existing.  Let's be honest guys, most of the staff are gone now.  We're trickling out one by one, and you trolls, jerks, and bullies are the cause of it.  We're tired of working our asses off for you and being abused as a result.  It's ludicrous.  Stop, or get the fuck out and go to 4-chan where you're welcomed with open arms.
6. Nayleen: I felt like you needed your own point, because you're my fiance and my life: STOP TROLLING, NOW.  I know that this is a reaction to all the trolling and crap that's been going on for months now, but stop.  I know that many of the people here at Fuwanovel are festering trolls with nothing better to do than hurt others, but seriously, you're better than that; you're an ex-admin and a big reason why Fuwanovel even stands now, you should be upholding its views of love and tolerance more than the average member.  

All in all, I have no solution for you banner issue, but that's not really the point of this post.  This post is to say: treat other people better.  Each and every individual has a life, feelings, and pain.  You should respect their views and tolerate that which you don't like.  I hope you all will stop this nonsense and go back to being the Fuwanovel I loved and worked so hard to nurture.

[Darklord Rooke]

Always good to see you around, Mayumi.

[Aniki]

Looks like Mayumayu delayed a storm. There isn't going to be a good reply in a while.

[Mr Poltroon]

Quite a bit of text, actually.

1. The point of this contest was to decide a banner. People voted for what they wanted, so at the very least, the majority decided what they wanted. I don't think there's much more that can be done than this. At the very worst, if you were to decide that the banner is an eyesore (Oh, no! I can't look at the top left of the screen! My eyes! They're melting) an option to change it to whatever you want has been made available to you. So you can do that on your own computer without inconveniencing anyone else.

 

2. I'm always serious . Seriously, though, this is getting me rather annoyed now. Below you'll see a summary of everything that happened on this thread. Then, will someone please tell me where people are taking this too seriously?

Fiddle: Agrees with the two polls system originally proposed.

Funyarinpa: Suggested that there would be different categories for the voting.

Nosebleed: Doesn't see the point in that.

Funyarinpa: Gives up on different categories and suggests that there be two equal polls for voting, to help Nosebleed fine tune the two vote system originally purposed.

Flutterz: Says the exact same thing the above one said, he missed the post.

Nosebleed: Agrees with Flutterz, misses Funyarinpa's post.

Tiagofvarela: Disagrees with the loli's being an issue and comments upon it. Teels Nosebleed that he missed a post overly aggressive way. 

Nosebleed: Misunderstood me and still didn't find Funyarinpa's post.

Tiagofvarela: Points at the Funyarinpa's post again. Explains to Nosebleed that he misunderstood him.

Rooke: Says that the two vote idea is needlessly complicated.

Tiagofvarela: Disagrees with that.

Nosebleed: Notices that he missed Funyarinpa's post. Explains that people complained about there only being 1 vote.

Zodai: Suggests various different themes for the different contests.

Nosebleed: Misunderstands him.

Tiagofvarela: Comments on Zodai's idea, explains that he doesn't mind the two votes and tells Nosebleed that he misunderstood Zodai.

Rooke: Explains to me how two, if both people don't vote, would be unfair.

Tiagofvarela: Doesn't get it at all.

Nosebleed: Misunderstood yet again, but edited it later when he figured it out, but what he figured out was another misunderstanding. Agrees with Rooke.

Tiagofvarela: Explains that Nosebleed misunderstood Zodai's post. Still doesn't click for him how two votes could potentially be unfair.

Asonn: Prefers one vote.

Nosebleed: Still misunderstands Zodai and explains to me how two votes could be unfair.

Lewycool: Explains how in this contest the theme didn't really mean much.

Nosebleed: Agrees with him.

Tiagofvarela: Explains to Nosebleed that he misunderstood Zodai. Explains to Asonn his opinion on why two votes is better. Acknowledges that two votes is unfair if some vote only once.

Lewycool: Explains his satisfaction at Nosebleed doing something about the themes.

Nosebleed: Finally understands Zodai's post. Asks people whether to use 1 or 2 votes and gives his opinion.

Tiagofvarela: Doesn't understand why everyone's saying this is all so complicated. Suggests that the mod is too lazy to check the votes on two polls hence the cause of the complications.

Nosebleed: Continues arguing about a the two vote system. Explains that laziness is not a factor.

Tiagofvarela: Concedes on the two vote system. Asks why two votes is more complicated.

Rooke: Explains why two votes is more complicated.

Nosebleed: Explains that two votes might be a bad idea after all. 

Tiagofvarela: Understands why it's complicated. Picks up one of Rooke's arguments and turns it into a suggestion.

Maefdomn: Explains that 1 vote is better. Explains that the loli could be an issue and suggest a fix.

Rooke: Agrees that 1 vote is better.

Nosebleed: Decided there will only be one vote.

Tiagofvarela: Explains his opinion on the loli issue. Doesn't understand why everyone says it's too complicated.

Mephisto: Asks for a way to chose your own banner.

Tiagofvarela: Gives it to him.

Heizei_koukousei: Explains that he's like there to be more banners.

Tiagofvarela: Tells him to wait for more or make his own.

Solidbatman: Says this is being taken way too seriously. Explains that change is bad.

Nayleen: No idea what he actually said... 

Tiagofvarela: Explains that there really hasn't been anyone taking anything seriously, since he was the only one arguing about anything.

Down: Disagrees with Nayleen.

 

3. Can't comment on this. I personally don't believe myself to be better than anyone else. But not worse, either.

 

4. Ok, this I have something to say about. I have a tendency to critique the staff at every opportunity (just check this thread), I mean it as a joke, but it might not come off as such. Since this is in ill-taste, I'll stop doing it if I can help it. I also apologize if I offended anyone. As I said before, I don't think anyone's superior or inferior to me.

 

5. Don't really know what this refers to or encompasses, so I won't comment. If I'm doing it myself, please tell me, so I can change my behavior accordingly.

 

...This took way longer than expected to write. I'll go have a bite.

 

Edit: 

Looks like Mayumayu delayed a storm. There isn't going to be a good reply in a while.

Denied!

 

Oh, wait...

There isn't going to be a good reply in a while.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Tiagofvarela

[Guest]

(Wall of text)

 

That's exactly the kind of answer that we need.  Positive and working towards mutual understanding and harmony; well said Taigo, and very much appreciated.

 

Since you ask about the seriousness factor in this thread, I'll "attempt" to graze the surface.  In case you haven't noticed, there's been a whole ton of drama around here.  I've already talked about this war of the lolicons and non-lolicons here and the mistreatment of staff.  Along with that, you guys are bickering over how to vote for a banner.  Seriously?  This is where a staff member should just ask Bats, the proposer of said idea, what he thinks, and then make a voting system without all of this.  That's more or less the issue.  Now, if you're a staff member out there, please end this thread's arguing with a poll or something and let the light-hearted Fuwa experience flow in.  Please.

[Aniki]

Denied!

That was reverse psychology, though our spies actually knew you were typing something down anyway.