Tay's Absence

[OriginalRen]

Hey Fuwanovel,

So this is a thread I had wanted to create before I went to sleep for the evening, and before I begin writing, I want it to be known that I am not trying to start any sort of unnecessary arguments because of it. Please do no think ill of what I am about to say, because I am worried about Tay's absence due to personal issues and other real life concerns like anyone else on this website.

Still, it is has been far over a month since planned changes for the website were announced, and due to Tay being in a state of absence for the majority of that time, I feel members have started to lose interest in Fuwanovel. While I can appreciate him popping in and out every so often to give us a status update on how he's doing, it upsets me that things are being announced without any sort of means to follow through with them.

Considering the fact we have 1 person "running" the site, it feels like a majority of members on Fuwanovel are losing interest in a lot of things surrounding the website; it feels like we are going to be stuck in a state of limbo for the rest of eternity. To me, it feels like Tay is becoming too mentally exhausted to handle the website. I understand he is an extraordinary individual, but doing something this large without any sort of help takes a toll on a person's body.

When a lot of feedback was being made back in July, Tay had stated that a lot of new changes would start to be implemented at the end of August. While some members were upset because of this, others were eager to see what sorts of changes were in store. However due to personal issues, no word was made regarding the changes. We were left sitting on the site without any sort of idea as to what was going to happen; the people who I noticed were on the forefront of trying to make everyone happy by helping the community keep its old traditions and gladly test the new changes started tapering off. Motivation for a lot of members started disappearing from Fuwanovel and a lot of them started disappearing into the shadows.

Eventually, a new change was announced with the board moderator positions opening up, and a lot of people seemed excited because of that. However due to personal issues once again, nothing was said. Another 2-3 weeks went by, and at the beginning of that 3rd week, Tay announced that he was doing what he could with whatever was going on in his life and that he would announce the moderators within the next few days. However, another week went and still nothing has happened. I understand that personal life always comes 1st, and I know that a person's mental and physical health is of utmost importance, but having been here for this long is starting to sadden me. I am seeing a lot of good people disappear or go into hiding.

I guess this post (if you can call it anything) is just a small concern I have for the members of this website. What will it take to keep people motivated? As an active member who is always trying to create projects for the community, I feel that people are starting to lose interest in a lot of things that help make this website tick. The logo contest is no longer a thing, and the MOTM for September has not been posted.

Tay, if you read this I hope all is well, and I hope everyone else who reads this continues to stay motivated as best they can. Even though this post may feel like I am telling you to give up on this website and what we do, it is actually quite the opposite. It may be harder to please people nowadays, but I promise it won't stop me from moving forward. I hope it doesn't stop you either.

[Kendjin]

Due to health issues Tay is currently unable to devote as much time as originally planned in the original schedule. We will attempt to provide a comprehensive milestone in the near future once we can get a few things organised.

I will note that the health issues with Tay are not mental fatigue but real physical ones and are not to be downplayed.

Steps are being taken to more things forward and at this time is as much as a statement that can be made.

[Guest]

I have no idea what's happened to him, I hope things are going to improve for him and we can't blame him for being sick or for any personnal issues.

 

However he decided to work alone and I can't defend him there.

It's obvious that if you work alone, your own motivation, the state you are in is going to have an influence, sometimes positive, sometimes not, on the site your are running.

I said it many times so there's no excuse there. That said, it's no surprise the forum is not as active as it was and that regular members are leaving.

 

I don't personnal care about a VN forum where 85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games.

And what do you expect from members spending dozens of hours on difficult projects, corrections, reviews only to see others rewarded for quickly set up, useless threads in Games and Chatter or where ever people put them first to get attention.

The "fun" part of fuwanovel has completely overtaken the real part, don't expect people willing to spend their freetime on the serious part to stay if this continues.

That was a small rant on how I see things.

Peace.

[Darklord Rooke]

It would reflect poorly on us as a community if we were to be so demanding of Tay during such a tragic time, and my best wishes go to Tay and his family. Basically there's a time and place.

 

However he decided to work alone and I can't defend him there.

 

It's obvious that if you work alone, your own motivation, the state you are in is going to have an influence, sometimes positive, sometimes not, on the site your are running.

 

I can vouch that he is aware of this and has formed some plans, unfortunately he hasn't had time to do anything about it.

[Kaguya]

I have no idea what's happened to him, I hope things are going to improve for him and we can't blame him for being sick or for any personnal issues.

 

However he decided to work alone and I can't defend him there.

It's obvious that if you work alone, your own motivation, the state you are in is going to have an influence, sometimes positive, sometimes not, on the site your are running.

I said it many times so there's no excuse there. That said, it's no surprise the forum is not as active as it was and that regular members are leaving.

 

I don't personnal care about a VN forum where 85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games.

And what do you expect from members spending dozens of hours on difficult projects, corrections, reviews only to see others rewarded for quickly set up, useless threads in Games and Chatter or where ever people put them first to get attention.

The "fun" part of fuwanovel has completely overtaken the real part, don't expect people willing to spend their freetime on the serious part to stay if this continues.

That was a small rant on how I see things.

Peace.

Well, he wasn't planning on working alone- it's just that he got sick before he had the chance to push is ideas forward. You can't blame him for not adding another admin, though- it happened more than once already, and we know how it always ended up. It probably felt safer to him to go with only one admin until he could put his plans in motion, and we can't really blame someone for not forseeing medical problems in their future.

 

How are these members getting rewarded? They're having more posts in their threads and/or are getting more likes, right? Because I don't remember any reward we've been giving out to threads on G&C.

Well, if that's the case, it's about what the members want. We can't force them to post on forums they don't want to- Something simple and silly can have the same entertainment value as the most well-written review, or even more, to a lot of people. And we can't do anything about it. I don't even get why this second part is related to Tay's absense- even if he was here, the people who make most threads and post of them are our normal members. We can't really affect that.

 

I will say (to Ren's post) that he's not outside the site because of physical or mental exhaustion, though. He's actually sick- The fact he even went to tell us that in the staff forum is very surprising to me, with that kind of condition, I wouldn't dream of getting near a computer, honestly.

[Mr Poltroon]

I can vouch that he is aware of this and has formed some plans, unfortunately he hasn't had time to do anything about it.

I see... So Tay set up some plans in case he didn't have the time or ability to make them work himself, but he can't put them in practice because he isn't present. 

Now those are some efficient backup plans for his absence.

 

More seriously though, I don't have much of an opinion on this matter. He is currently the head of the website, but he is unable to run it. Either we patiently wait for him to come back, whenever that may be, or we do things ourselves. 

 

I don't really care, since I don't have any plans to leave anytime soon nor do I have any pressing issues with the forum as it is now.

 

(God, such an ungentlemanly young man I am. It completely slipped my mind.)

Get well, Tay.

[Darklord Rooke]

I will say (to Ren's post) that he's not outside the site because of physical or mental exhaustion, though. He's actually sick- The fact he even went to tell us that in the staff forum is very surprising to me, with that kind of condition, I wouldn't dream of getting near a computer, honestly.

 

[Guest]

Well, he wasn't planning on working alone- it's just that he got sick before he had the chance to push is ideas forward. You can't blame him for not adding another admin, though- it happened more than once already, and we know how it always ended up. It probably felt safer to him to go with only one admin until he could put his plans in motion, and we can't really blame someone for not forseeing medical problems in their future.

 

How are these members getting rewarded? They're having more posts in their threads and/or are getting more likes, right? Because I don't remember any reward we've been giving out to threads on G&C.

Well, if that's the case, it's about what the members want. We can't force them to post on forums they don't want to- Something simple and silly can have the same entertainment value as the most well-written review, or even more, to a lot of people. And we can't do anything about it. I don't even get why this second part is related to Tay's absense- even if he was here, the people who make most threads and post of them are our normal members. We can't really affect that.

 

I will say (to Ren's post) that he's not outside the site because of physical or mental exhaustion, though. He's actually sick- The fact he even went to tell us that in the staff forum is very surprising to me, with that kind of condition, I wouldn't dream of getting near a computer, honestly.

 

Well we see how it happens when you have only one admin too.

 

"Likes", "thanks", "good job", this is what we call rewarding. It's so simple.

And when stupid useless shit gets thrice as much as when some of us spend hours helping, it pisses me off.

Listen, I beleive humility is one of the greatest qualities, and doing something without waiting for anything in return is remarkable.

But the thing is people can't go on doing things for no reason for ever.

 

And if the general consensus is that fuwa is a place to fool around in then let it be. But don't be surprised if it keeps going in that direction and if some of us leave. Rename the website to "comehavefunandmaybereadVNs.org".

 

And of course you can do something about it. But there's just no fuck given.

 

I wish you best luck for the continuation,

Maybe you'll do something with this website with some members who find motivation in nothingness.

[krill]

tays absence does indeed suck, but the man puts alot in to the community just keeping the doors open and lights on after aeru vanished.  i wish him a speedy and safe recovery and me and my family's thoughts are with him and his family. as for the meat of rens worries the disappearing fuwans. i agree it sad seeing ppl leave, and anyone whose been part of online communities knows it happens and tends to happen in waves groups of members leave new members arrive the circle of life and all that.

 

yeah ill agree a portion of that may be the lack of updates to the front page of the site and forums but i have faith in fuwa and believe its a temporary issue that will be resolved in time.  the members in hiding also may be doing so due to the school year having recently started and many fuwans are strapped for time between their schools and universities and their hobbies leaving less tiime for the community that will also fade as members readjust to the balancing act they deal with most of the year now that summer has come to a close.

i appreciate all the hard work,creativity and just great fun that ren invests in to the community and i understand the worries i do but im fairly certain it will pick up again in the near future.

 

on to maef's mini rant: ok i understand your frustration but chill man. the games and chatter section is not rewarded for anything. the posts don't count towards post count. and its moderated pretty actively. the anime,manga,video games and other otaku interest threads have been around as long as iv been here even when i lurked for a year before becoming a member. whats the harm in that , we aren't all able to provide visual novel content.

 

i have pretty much no skills i can offer localization projects other then as a gopher and spreading word or maybe making a crappy blog for them to use for updates. but i do watch tons of anime, play lots of games and read a fair share of manga is me offering opinions,recommendations, news sources and information on those things somehow bad for fuwa cuzz its not visual novel exclusive content? if some one makes a ama thread so people can get to know them a deterrent to new members joining? i don't believe so .

 

if you don't want to participate in that type of discussion or content you don't have to . want more content thats serious reviews and discussion of the visual novels exclusive side of the community then as a great man said, be the change you want to see in the world. im sure some others will join in and you can get that content and community participation your looking for.

[OriginalRen]

You bring up a good point krill. I myself tend to forget that school still exists for some people. Lol.

[arakura]

This is a really good thread. I know Ren is just concerned, and I know it may not be too early to voice those concerns, but I think it's too early to suspect that he is like Aaeru.

I also sympathize with Maef, but agree with krill here. I am a GD GandC guy mostly, but I have my reasons and my limitations. I don't read as many visual novels as you, and I definitely don't have the skills or motivation or knowledge to get involved with the deeper aspects of spreading vns, but I like the people here and I post to engage in community. There's not much more I can do without hours of passion that I use on the other aspects of my life. I just don't know what you think you can do about the way things are without butchering your community and your member activity by cutting away GD G&C, and Anime/Manga boards. I'd probably go back to being a lurker without them, and just try to reach out specifically to members I like. You should say something other than "there's no fuck given". That's just closedminded. Just as you said you don't care about a vn forum with 85percent other talk, I don't want a vn forum work mostly vn talk, because it's harder for me to engage in the vast number of those threads, because I've not read many vns.

So here's my suggestion to you: the way to implement the Fuwanovel you envision would be to utterly destroy or remove the off topic boards. Then people wouldnt talk much about non-vn things. Most people would leave, myself included, but you'd have your small group of actually motivated vn supporters. That's what your want, right? Good luck with that.

Lastly, I've always considered "not enough time" and "too busy" crappy excuses for not being around. It's an internet forum, it doesn't take any real commitment to spend ten minutes reading a thread and giving a quick opinion. I even do it on my phone between classes lots of the time. What's true of me and I suspect is true of many people is that "too busy" is an easy and harmless excuse for "lost interest" or "don't really care anymore". It's happened to me before and it's happened to people I used to talk with all the time.

I think Tay is amazing and I don't think this is the situation for him. I'm happy to wait for him to get better. Rooting for you, Tay!

[theboxcarracer]

I'm a new guy, and I haven't ever seen Tay around, but I hope he gets well soon. The little I've seen of him makes me think he's a great guy.

 

Good luck, I hope things turn out okay.

[Stray Cat]

Since everything I feel needs to have been said has been, I will simply say that health issues of any kind (especially severe ones as seems to be the case here) is a perfectly acceptable excuse for letting some things fall behind and no one should be criticized for such things. 

 

Therefore, I wish Tay a speedy recovery and him and his family all the best. 

[OriginalRen]

To clarify, I hope nobody thinks I am blaming Tay for being sick or saying that he needs to be criticized for not doing what he said he was going to be doing. The original intent of this thread was to ask what sorts of ways we as members can remain motivated and continue doing something for this website, even with his absence. I hope the Battle of the Guilds game is entertaining enough (a lot of members have signed up for it, far more than I ever imagined), however I am always looking for new ideas and feel a little concerned that people are going to give up.

 

I did a poor job of stating this in my original introduction, so I apologize if this was confusing. As with anyone else, I hope all is well.

[krill]

ren i dont think anyone felt you were in any way blaming tay for getting sick, it was clear in the opening post you felt that the members were losing interest and you were feeling a lil frustrated due to not knowing what to do to rekindle the masses in to motion. and i hear ya man. but as i said with the school year and the new university semester just getting under way for a lot of the world most of the younger members here are gonna be going awol. after a month or two of getting in the swing of there new schedules again this should even out a bit. as for what can you and by extension the rest of us do . i think we can support the staff in keeping things rolling smooth. and most of all keep up your excellent work at providing opportunity for member participation and games. im considering something in a similar vein. im starting a guild for fuwa members on spiral knights a free to play game on steam and considering a group stream for anime with a irc or skype chat running simultaneously and possible a manga discussion group where we select through vote a single manga series that has already ended its run and we read it at our own pace and discuss it together in the forum probably a monthly thing i think. not sure these are things i been kicking around my brain pan the last few days . ill let ya know when i figure out the plans for these.

[Heizei_koukousei]

After reading what everyone has had to say I have come to a few conclusions.

The biggest thing is that simply because Tay is the man in charge of this website does NOT mean he is to blame for the lack of updates to the main page and changes to the site overall. Its Tay's responsibility to himself to ensure his health, and no website is more important than that. But perhaps it is a wake up call that he cannot and should not go it alone in running this site.

 

I see... So Tay set up some plans in case he didn't have the time or ability to make them work himself, but he can't put them in practice because he isn't present. 

Now those are some efficient backup plans for his absence.

 

More seriously though, I don't have much of an opinion on this matter. He is currently the head of the website, but he is unable to run it. Either we patiently wait for him to come back, whenever that may be, or we do things ourselves.

I think we do need to have more independence from Tay. I have made my complaints about the MotM, and looking back I will admit that I was being quite ignorant. However, Tay is not the only one on this site who is capable enough to implement changes (especially simple ones such as that).

 

 

Perhaps we should have a MotM solely based on contribution to a translation project or other major project. This brings me to my next topic...

 

Well we see how it happens when you have only one admin too.

 

"Likes", "thanks", "good job", this is what we call rewarding. It's so simple.

And when stupid useless shit gets thrice as much as when some of us spend hours helping, it pisses me off.

Listen, I beleive humility is one of the greatest qualities, and doing something without waiting for anything in return is remarkable.

But the thing is people can't go on doing things for no reason for ever.

 

And if the general consensus is that fuwa is a place to fool around in then let it be. But don't be surprised if it keeps going in that direction and if some of us leave. Rename the website to "comehavefunandmaybereadVNs.org".

 

And of course you can do something about it. But there's just no fuck given.

 

I wish you best luck for the continuation,

Maybe you'll do something with this website with some members who find motivation in nothingness.

This is bullshit. If we wanted a site strictly about the localization of visual novels, we would have all just joined Lemma Soft. Although you have made meaningful contributions to this site, I don't appreciate the lack of faith you show. If you are going to complain like that you can just leave. This site appeals to more than just those who have the ability to work on a translation project. Without the community members that frequent the other boards we would not have the fan base to achieve our goal of making visual novels a commonplace medium. The fact that this site is a friendly place where we can all discuss more than just VNs allows us to spread the good word. Translation projects are still a big part of this site, and I can agree that it doesn't seem like as much work is being done in general. However, people don't just get recognized for posting a thread saying they're going to be working on a project. As many people have stated, we all can't have the skills to make a difference, but it is still important for us to have a diversity of members who can still spread the news.

[Down]

This is bullshit. If we wanted a site strictly about the localization of visual novels, we would have all just joined Lemma Soft. Although you have made meaningful contributions to this site, I don't appreciate the lack of faith you show. If you are going to complain like that you can just leave. This site appeals to more than just those who have the ability to work on a translation project. Without the community members that frequent the other boards we would not have the fan base to achieve our goal of making visual novels a commonplace medium. The fact that this site is a friendly place where we can all discuss more than just VNs allows us to spread the good word. Translation projects are still a big part of this site, and I can agree that it doesn't seem like as much work is being done in general. However, people don't just get recognized for posting a thread saying they're going to be working on a project. As many people have stated, we all can't have the skills to make a difference, but it is still important for us to have a diversity of members who can still spread the news.

I think you've mostly misunderstood what Maefdomn was complaining about.

We all know that not everyone can get into a project to create or translate VNs, this is more about actually discussing VNs (ie reviews, thought-sharing, analysis, offering information and tools, sharing impressions).

 

 

In other news,

[arakura]

A lot of us aren't as interested in those things, Down. Or at least that's what the relative subforum popularity suggests. I don't like reading reviews, I'm not big into analysis, and I don't have a big enough list of completed vns to be able to read most of the threads on vntalk anyway. Should I just leave?

The problem is that you're seeing this as a new development. Which it is, but that's completely natural. The first people to join this community were heavily entrenched in the work of spreading vns, or at least the vns themself. As you get more popular, you attract a wider array of people. People who enjoy vns, but not as much as maybe anime or manga; who enjoy the community and try to help spread it's message just by making the community more vibrant. That's just because you've already trrapped a lot of the hardcore visual novel enthusiasts already.

If you want a strictly visual novel forum, you're going to have to implement changes that will effectively take this site back in time, removing the more stray fans such as myself. Or you could just produce more content, but whining about how we don't produce enough as is won't do anything. We are in our natural state.

And furthermore, for outsiders, the first thing they see is the front page, then the vn talk and projects subforums. THEN, if they like the site, they'll join or start lurking around GD and Anime/Manga. You only see all the non-vn stuff because you're here all the time. My first days as a lurker were spent in the vn focused subforums.

Yay Tay

[nohman]

I don't personnal care about a VN forum where 85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games.

And what do you expect from members spending dozens of hours on difficult projects, corrections, reviews only to see others rewarded for quickly set up, useless threads in Games and Chatter or where ever people put them first to get attention.

The "fun" part of fuwanovel has completely overtaken the real part, don't expect people willing to spend their freetime on the serious part to stay if this continues.

That was a small rant on how I see things.

Peace.

 

I joined Fuwanovel because of visual novels, but I stayed because of the community and the people here. I don't really see the problem: people still discuss visual novels and upcoming news, they are active projects on the forums, and most of the forum's real estate is devoted to visual novels. I wouldn't no where near call the VN portion of the forums barren. Not all of the discussion there has merit or is interesting, but that's a matter of personal opinion.The fact that people are able to contribute more to general discussion topics isn't really that surprising, nor is it anything to decry. General discussion topics are more digestible and more easily added to. That's how it has been on the majority of forums I've frequented.

 

As for the topic directly at hand, I feel for Tay. Since I've been a member, I've seen at least of couple of admins come and go. It always felt like Tay sort fell into his current position (that is being the sole one driving the direction of the site). He seems like a decent guy and the fact he continues to stick around, even through his prevailing health issues says something. I have faith in him that he will earnestly try to implement the changes that are being talked about, even if they don't really come to fruition. There may be a time where we arrive at a crossroads if he's no longer able to continue these efforts or the community as a whole becomes fed up with their lack of expediency, but I don't think we're at that point yet.

 

As for the state of the forums and people of the community, people have always come and gone and popped up when they felt like it. I'm sure there's some specific cases, but I'm not sure if on the whole it has anything to do with the current "languishing state" that the forums find themselves in.

[Kendjin]

In relation to the spam topics. We removed them from new posts so that new people wouldn't be exposed to them so much, allowing vn topics to flourish.

No one has ever underestimated the effort translators put in, but it's not for those looking for quick adoration.

All are welcome to express your feelings in this topic, just know we haven't dropped the ball and the patience you have shown so far will not be unrewarded.

[Clephas]

I hope Tay gets to feeling better soon...

[Kenshin_sama]

I don't personnal care about a VN forum where 85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games.

And what do you expect from members spending dozens of hours on difficult projects, corrections, reviews only to see others rewarded for quickly set up, useless threads in Games and Chatter or where ever people put them first to get attention.

The "fun" part of fuwanovel has completely overtaken the real part, don't expect people willing to spend their freetime on the serious part to stay if this continues.

I understand that this forum is affiliated with VNs, but the diversity and enjoyability of the forum can still help with the cause. Personally, I don't play as many VNs as a seasoned reader does (I spend most of my time on anime and video games), so this forum would be a little less interesting to me if every discussion was solely based on VNs. I do still lurk VN discussion threads, posting occasionally when a VN I've read is mentioned, and some of the things posted there do pique my interest. I can't say many others will be the same, but for the ones that are, this forum would be helping to better interest in VNs. And being apart of this forum has driven me to learn a little more about official English releases for VNs, in which I've started following Twitter accounts of companies like Mangagamer and Sekai Project. And it was through their tweets that I've discovered so many interesting projects that I feel like investing my money in (Like Eden and Planetarian). Now imagine the forum was as you wanted it to be, free of uselessly fun stuff and with little to no discussion for anything other than VNs. I wouldn't be able to interact with the community as much as I'd like to and would probably not stay around for long. And without lurking the VN discussions, I wouldn't be as interested in VNs. Even if a lot of forum discussion isn't centered on VNs, it can still, inadvertently, raise interest.

Just my two cents.

It's unfortunate to hear about your condition, Tay, and I hope you get well soon.

[Stray Cat]

I would say, at least in my case, that this site has definitely served its purpose. Before joining, I was curious about visual novels but didn't really know where to start.  Even, though I am quite busy and don't have much free time to devote to visual novels, since joining the site I have purchased and played several visual novels (some of which are my new favorite games), made a list of many more I would like to buy and play at some point, and begun following upcoming releases and localization companies such as Sekai Project. Additionally, I have been discussing visual novels with some of my friends, a few of which who have begun purchasing and playing visual novels themselves.  Therefore, I would say that for me, the goal of "making visual novels popular in the west" was successful. 

 

However, without the community here and the various other aspects such as "general discussion" and "games and chatter", it is likely that I would not have stayed long enough to become interested in visual novels.  Although everyone may not view this the same way as I do, I would still say that these aspects are imperative to the site and have done just as much to contribute to the site's overarching goal of "making visual novels popular in the west". 

[Clephas]

If he thinks he can't come back soon, I'm sure he'll set up a proxy.  He's never struck me as being irresponsible... quite the reverse, actually. 

 

I like this site because it gives me a place to talk about VNs where everybody else isn't a jaded bastard who takes pleasure in poking holes in everybody else's fun.  The only downside is the fact that most of what I talk about here is only directed to a small portion of the community (the Japanese-competent). 

 

As for motivation... to be blunt, if the community is good and the posts on the blog keep up, the forums probably won't die either.  This is literally the only community I'm still involved with, so if Fuwa dies, I'll probably fade out permanently, lol

[OriginalRen]

A lot of the posts in this thread remind me of an older thread I made upon returning to Fuwanovel some time ago and starting my 1st stream with Mephisto. While it may seem corny and outdated, I still think it holds a lot of value for how I view this website. I hope it makes you feel the same.

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/4710-reflections-on-fuwa