Intrinsic

My favorite VN is Saya no Uta. If it wasn't for this VN I'd not read VNs When people give examples of VNs where the sex is without a doubt well integrated into the plot this VN is often listed as an example. That said, it's not enjoyable sexual content, it just helps make things more creepy later when everything starts falling into or out of place depending on how you look at it. It's creepy without any cheap thrills or loud bangs you typically find from the horror genre It's like this nugget of epic dark poetry that will leave an impression one way or the other.

Still working on Grisiaia no Kajitsu. Despite starting it on day one, and playing a bit almost every day, I'm only 87% complete. I've complete all but makina's routes. All the other girls had some appeal, but Makina isn't developed physically or mentally and knowing each route ends up in a sexual relationship, in Makina's case I don't really want to go there. I like the game a lot so I'm going to complete all the routes, but I cringe as the inevitable creepy scenario draws near... Started Monmusu Quest! a couple of weeks ago too, and I'm already well into part 2 of it now. I started the first part out of curiosity and was somewhat surprised to find a rather decent story mixed in with all the odd and kinky stuff. Not to say all the kinky stuff is bad either; sometimes being molested by your travel partner, Alice, is entertaining in it's own way... Lots of the other stuff is silly though. I don't even read the text during combat any more.

1. While not my favorite, I do like anime \ visual novels with a sibling romance based plot. That type of theme isn’t something I actively seek out, so I’ve not seen many, but I’ve come across a couple of anime with that theme in it, and have enjoyed them. Why do I enjoy such a thing? I think it’s because I like most kinds of forbidden love stories. Romeo and Juliet type stories where the world states the love should not and cannot be. How the couple struggle and try to overcome that opposition makes for a neat story. When the world is against the relationship of the protagonist they often take their time progressing through the stages of the relationship and you end up with a story containing more simple platonic moments. Even when things turn sexual they don’t just jump right into the “main course” or even do everything shy of the main course. Once you just skip right to the end it’s boring. All other actions that precede that one “end result” are a lot more interesting to me. 2. I do not think fictional work should be censored at all. People think things that would be wrong to act out all the time. People getting to talk about and express what they think is a good thing. If something fictional becomes illegal, then you’ve pretty much made someone’s thoughts illegal, and pretty much just invented a “thought crime”; much like in those oppressive dystopia themed books like 1984

humm, might I not be the oldest person on these boards? If you don't mind me asking how old are you? You can reply in a PM if you don't want it public.Or not at all if you want to keep a secret from everyone.... Meh, don't hide. Nosebleed is just saying random stuff because he was a bit grumpy after missing the mark by "___" that much. The fact that he is saying such things just means he was really into it and really wanted to win, so I took it as a compliment and didn't plan on saying anything at first... If anything the visual novel community could benefit from having more girls in it. Writers just assume that plopping an h-scene in almost anywhere is good enough for the male audience, but it's not. More often than not they feel out of place and are cliche, so they end up being awkward and the most boring part of the read. Even these awkward events add to the story, because in my mind I consider the weight associated with what the characters have done, so I'd not want them removed. It would just be nice if they were done better. If the amount of women readers was larger, to the point were the writer considered them too, such scenes would likely be better integrated into the story, more realistic, and would contain new ideas. We'd likely see a bit more drama and some new themes in plots too. Their presence is the real world community would add diversity in thought and ideas, and of course most guys wouldn't mind that presence either. It'd be win win all around.

Ok, kendjin. Thanks for letting me know. I will contact boomer to see what he's up to. I'm not sure about sticking together, but postage might be a bit cheaper if he is in Canada, ;-P - his profile doesn't say. I felt bad for nosebleed, but even if the instructions in bold were overlooked, the gender was wrong too =( . It's all good though, thank you for playing along, it was fun. zhurai, I honestly thought the code idea was neat, but even without hints some things are much more likely than others. Since the pool of data itself isn't totally random it almost seems like a disadvantage to make your guesses totally random. For example, over half the people here are in their 20s, so an equal chance of guessing an age of 80 something just doesn't seem the best way to go. Even still thanks for the neat idea.

@zoom909 - Speaking of otaku, some day I should post pictures of the room I'm sitting in right now. Every wall is completely covered with posters and art prints. There isn't a physical spot big enough, on any of the walls, to hang a single additional poster. It looks pretty neat.... I wish I had more poster hanging room somewhere... @flutterz - If I had to guess, it's probably the rigid way in which I write. I usually make sure things are precise too. Like if I was making a shipping list I'd write 2% milk, and a dozen large eggs. While someone else might simply put eggs and milk on their list, leaving out specifics. Spending more focus and time on numbers odds and details is probably more likely a male thing to do. Like when I read the post from someone suggesting simple random math was good for guessing, I had to stop myself from posting a big rant reasoning out why that wouldn't be the best option. When I started thinking of Battleships it made me want to play because I spent a lot of time pondering the most efficient way to cover the board with guesses.

Sounds like you were really thinking about it. You're right 30F shouldn't be in that list. I just quickly came up with that list now... While this community is likely largely male, and it was probably the safer bet, I typically don't speak in a way that makes it that obvious, or I don't think I do at least? It's not that I'm intentionally hiding anything, I'm just am typically tactful with my words. So it makes me wonder what you're intuition was based on.

I thought people might read my posts for hints too. Like me saying I bought games from JAST USA = likely not under 18 as I likely have a credit card and likely passed their age gate while ordering. Though, thinking about it further, I'm sure me at 13 years of age would have loved to get my hands on and play eroge, lol. So maybe it's not that out to lunch.

well... Actually based on all the hints... 37 female 31 male 13 male 30 female 33 female 42 female in canada where the only options left. Some people chose things not on this list, while options on the list were not even selected...

It was odd watching people guess. For the most part people started at the most common age demographic for this type of forum and then slowly and methodically worked their way up. I have to say, this made me feel quite old, lol *cries a little bit inside* Gender is only two choices, this makes giving a hit for this choice without just giving it away hard. Most hints would be some type of male or female stereotype too, which I didn’t want to bring up. So I just left this a binary fifty fifty chance to the end. Canada recently phased out its penny, so we no longer have copper in our currency. When you buy things they round up or down to the nearest 5 cents now. I wanted the country out of the equation first as this was probably the hardest and most boring thing to guess. With this hint combined with the already short list of countries to pick from I hoped the choice would become clear quickly, without bluntly saying what it was. Then you had some odd answers, like the country of “North America”. Also, since most VNs are adult content the younger guesses at 12 and 13 years old were a bit odd too {Maybe this was just some people’s wishful thinking?} As people where guessing it was so hard not to make comments! Doing so would give stuff away, but so many times I wanted to comment on things people were saying as the days went on. Anyway I had fun with this, and I hope other people did too. Thanks again for all the warm welcomes and also thanks to all those who humoured me and played along PS. if you are reading this and haven't read my prior post the winner results are in my last post.

*whistles* What a mess I’ve made here, but it’s over! The person who correctly posted all the right info first was: It was a good win, as he was Johnny on the spot the day prior saying he should have guessed the right answer and then didn’t, which was pretty odd. Then today he was Johnny on the spot with the correct answer. Now, I do feel a bit bad that it came down to only a few options, which left a big advantage to people in the right time zone, or people who just happened to have computer access at the right time. For this reason I decided to also have a second place prize for one of the people who guessed correctly at a later time... Even though this is going to cost a fortune in shipping >_> From Flutterz, the first place winner, if you could please private message me your mailing address and your top three choices from the posters seen in the image in my first post {please use the letters beside each respective poster}. I’ve decided to send two posters to the first placed winner. The first choice will be a sure thing as promised in the original rules of the contest. Then a second poster that will be either the second or third choice depending on how second place person chooses. From the second place contestants: Kendjin Shcboomer Can you please private message me a guess at a number between 0 and 99 including 0 and 99. Whoever is closer to the rolled number tomorrow evening will receive the second place prize, and will also be mailed a poster. After the guessing for this is over I’ll get a first and second choice and mailing address from the closest guesser. I keep saying “posters”, but these are actually art prints I bought at conventions. All are in good shape, A and F have never been hung on display. A, B,C, and D have been on display so there are tack holes in the corners, but they are small pin holes. If I remember right A, B,C, and D are all signed by the artist who drew them too.

I really thought someone was going to get it the other day.. but since nobody did didn’t let’s start round number five. Making up some kind of guess this time without giving the answer away is kind of hard today >_>. It’s like all the wholes around the battleship have already been filled in, but somehow the ship has been missed… Today’s hint{s} The correct age was used by someone in the grouping of round four guesses. The age was just not paired with the other needed info correctly. That being said, I am aware that this scenario leaves less possible choices than people guessing {why I was really hoping someone was going to get it the other day}. If all possible choices are exhausted or you simply want to guess what someone else has already guessed please do still make an honest attempt and submit a duplicate answer. Anyway I’m a bit pressed for time this morning so I’m going to leave it at that, and I’ll have to see who all guessed right tonight after work, and thank you everyone for playing along, it’s been fun

No correct guesses so far… So it’s time for round four! This is starting to feel like a game of It feels more like later in the game when nearly every available hole in the board already has a peg in it. I’d be surprised if someone doesn’t get it quite soon… Today’s hint{s} Still to date, none of the age guesses have been correct. In other words it’s none of the following.. 12 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 32 35 90 91 Once again, have fun, and good luck.

No correct guesses so far… It is a bit early but let’s starts round three of the guesses. Don’t be shy, even if someone else is 124% sure they are right guess something else anyway! :-D Today’s hint{s} Still to date, none of the age guesses have been correct. In other words it’s none of the following.. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 90 Secondly, the country I reside in recently phased out all copper coins from its currency. Anyway, that’s it for now… Good luck.

Thank you all, for all the warm welcomes! This community seems really nice. Sorry for making the guessing game a bit difficult. I didn’t want someone to get it before everyone who wanted to guess had a chance to do so, and thought a few guesses before someone got it right might be more fun too. As time goes on I’ll start giving hints to make it easier, until someone eventually figures out... First hint{s} The country is one of the ones that been guessed so far: Canada Sweden USA Zimbabwe The age is not one of the ages that has been guessed so far: 17 18 19 22 23 24 90

The visual novels I have played were ones with few choices. I kept telling people I was playing a game, but really all I was doing was reading and not really playing anything. Eventually someone pointed out to me that "what I was 'playing' isn't much of a game". At this point I thought about it for a while..A really long fictional text is a novel by definition. Then of course there are visual elements involved as well, and hence I started using the term Visual Novel instead as I feel it better reflected what they are. I'm lazy, so I type VN instead of visual novel sometimes *shrugs* While the real reason I changed over to calling VN a VN is listed above, I'm glad it worked out that way. Trying to explain to people what a gal game was would just be embarrassing and brings with a lot of negative assumptions, most of which I feel are not true. Do we really need to call VNs by the same name the Japanese do? The Japanese call a green traffic light a "blue light". The word for greenery in Japanese contains the kanji for "blue" and "leaf". I've read the reason for these mix ups is because the Japanese didn't acknowledged green as it's own color, but thought of it as a shade of blue up until not so long ago...

I also love bad ending that are well written and complete feeling. *Sudo spoiler next.* For example, Saya no Uta is amazing, but all the endings are bad if you think about it.

Hello all, My profile is up to date now...If you have any questions after referencing it, please let me know... -=Edit=- There was a guessing game here, asking people to guess my age gender and location, but that's all over with now... Flutterz took first place, and won posters A, B, and D Shcboomer came in second place won F and C

heh, I can't help but notice there is now one vote for each of the three! lol. I'll add another vote for Grisaia. I can't really say why, but I really liked it.

Following the thread creator’s lead... My top four qualities for an ideal VN would be: 1. A strong emotion experience – The more crying the better 2. Largely or entirely female cast – Girls are pretty, cute, and most importantly I can relate to their emotions quicker. When a guy gets emotional it’s somewhat awkward, and they aren't cute or enjoyable to look at either 3. Physiological food for thought –Theories about the human condition for example 4. An underling plot thread that exists for the whole duration of the read - Small events in the story can be amusing, but a concept that always exist and is slowly progressing keeps you reading to see what happens next

The themes in all media are repetitive when looked at from a very high level. Most prime time North American television is a drama that revolves around cops, hospital staff, or lawyers for example. It's not the repetitive themes in games that I was complaining about, but the actual action of reading vs button mashing. In one case my time is being traded for a continual dialog and train of thought vs being presented with experience from killing a mob in the other case. Advancing through most games can usually be summarized as button mashing while you wait for something to die. At best you might be applying a bit of spatial reasoning, puzzle solving, and number approximation. While it's not to say these types of thought are totally useless, I'd argue that reading, even if it's the most repetitive drivel, is more beneficial. I was never a fast reader, but lately with all the reading I've done, mostly in the form for anime and VNs, I’ve gotten faster at reading. Reading speed as a skill directly helps me at work. The skills that are learned from conventional game play are pretty specific to games alone. Even if the plot of a visual novel is a very tripe and common in theme, at least there is a theme that is being painted and a story that is progressing with every word. When a jumping puzzle, or mob of monsters, is cleared there is not always the same clear advance in dialog. Sure you may be closer to the next spoonful of story element, but the story element is just that, spoonfuls here and there contained in an otherwise repetitive time wasting gauntlet.

If the majority of time with the piece of media in question is spent playing game play elements, then it is a game with a story. If most of the time is spent reading, and the emphasis is on the story, then it’s a visual novel with game play elements built in. Personally I enjoy a challenge in a game, or a good story, but not both in the same game. Getting stuck on a difficult game play element that prevents you from proceeding with the story is very frustrating. Also I do not like grinding in a game for a new bit of story. Games in the conventional sense have you mostly repeat the same action over and over again. This repetition provides nearly nothing in the way of food for thought, so conventional games seem mostly like a waste of time when compared to the value that visual novels offer.

Short answer: Yes, H-scenes are a necessary, as they are an valuable and irreplaceable tool that a visual novel writer has at their disposal to evoke specific enjoyable human emotions. Long answer: I dislike when creative expression is limited in any fashion. The idea of making an “all ages” game for the sake of making an “all ages” game is an irritating notion. When an artist is given complete freedom to create anything they want, the end result will be the best and the most pure expression of human thought and emotion that can be created. If the end result of unrestricted creativity is an all ages title, I have nothing against it, and it’s probably an all ages title worth reading. H-scence can serve at least two purposes I can think of. They can evoke feelings of closeness like an emotional bond and intimacy, or they can simply be indented to create sexual arousal. These two emotions are often avoided or approached in different ways in western media. I’d say H-scenes are one of the biggest defining differences VNs have when compared to other media. Many people want to experience these emotional states while reading, but it’s also clear many of these same people are uncomfortable doing so. In most cases people will not clearly come out and say the true reason they enjoyed eroge in their visual novel. People will either dance around the topic talking about the story only, or will make a joke out of it, making jokes about faping or what not. Not all H-scenes are will placed or well excited. It’s like the start of the punisher movie. The movie starts with a failed dig for sympathy before the guy goes on his revenge rampage. Just because that attempt failed at creating the motion the writer wanted, and might have been awkward, doesn’t mean digs for sympathy should be removed from movies. It’d be like starting a forum thread titled “are digs for sympathy in movies really necessary?” Not everyone will enjoy this type of emotional experience in a movie, nor will it always be well placed or excuted, but a writer should be allowed the freedom to try and evoke any emotion they want. I’ve not tried all that many VNs yet, but of the ones I’ve tried, I’d never want the H-scenes to be removed. In one visual novel I read the eroge was boring and awkward, but in the big picture it did create the building blocks and feelings that were necessary for the strong intimate relationship the story contained. In another NV a legitimately good story was married to arousing content. Enjoying a good story that is both intellectually stimulating and sexually arousing at the same time is a wonderful treat that I don’t think western media will ever provide me. Removing H-scenes from VNs would be removing a large part of what they are. Such honest and uninhibited attempts at expression are amazing and are not something that should be tampered with and censored. People who do appreciate eroge scenes just need to be more honest and mature when they express what they actually enjoyed while playing a VN. Context: The answer I provided above, to the question “H-Scenes. Really necessary?” was provided while considering the visual novel genre of media as a whole. In other words, would this genre of media be better off if all eroge was removed from it completely? If eroge was removed from all the VNs I’ve read, I’d feel like something was missing, even in the novels where I didn’t really care for the eroge at all.