What makes Grisaia no Kajitsu so great?

[Nightmare799]

I've just finished Yumiko's route and I felt it was just okay. Nothing special, nothing as good as Rewrite. The first half was bad, the second one was better.

 

I wonder why it's so popular... 

 

I believe it has to do with the raw brutality and it´s sober approach to the reality of the world as whole. Up to now, (I have only read the story up to Sachi rout starting from Amane and Makina) Every single person at that academy has some past with devastating outcome behind them.

 

On the side note, was Yumiko´s route the only one you have read?.

[starlessn1ght]

 

On the side note, was Yumiko´s route the only one you have read?.

 

Yes, I'm now reading Makina's route. Despite having a pretty light, slice-of-lifey beginning, up to now it has had a better introduction then Yumiko's route. Much better than a poorly developed conflict, with such sudden and fast approaches... 

[Vokoca]

It has the largest amount of retcons you will ever find in any visual novels, going as far as retconing retcons at one point. Isn't that great?! 

[icaros]

I think that Grisaia in terms of plot is not that great at all

There's a nice Slice of Life common route, comedy is nice and the stuff the happens are also fun to read.

and that makes you like the characters and when the route itself is coming even though its not a mindblowing plot its still REALY fun to read.

 

So in shot, the thing about Grisaia is that its very enjoyable and the characters are great, not the plot.

[Soulless Watcher]

For me it was the characters and character depth that really sold me on the vn. Each of the personalities of the heroines (and the protagonist in the sequels) are visibly shaped by their history and they are just really fun characters to watch be themselves.

 

On a side note I find it hilarious how many people are calling out Grisaia no Kajitsu for being "unrealistic" or "illogical". Did I just jump to a parallel timeline in which some of the best vns do not include a underwater themepark that doubles as a biological weapons lab, a brain in a vat that managed to summon its' crush from accross time and space with the power of love, and a war in which people summon famous dead blokes to fight for them?

[Zalor]

I've just finished Yumiko's route and I felt it was just okay. Nothing special, nothing as good as Rewrite. The first half was bad, the second one was better.

 

I wonder why it's so popular... 

 

Kind of funny how I completely agree that Grisaia is nothing great but disagree with you on Rewrite. Rewrite suffered from a similar problem of having an insanely long common route (that bored me to tears). Admittedly, I dropped Rewrite and never finished it (same with Grisaia), but my rule is that if something can't captivate me within the first 5 - 10 hours; I'm better off moving on to something else.

[starlessn1ght]

[starlessn1ght]

Michiru and Yumiko's route are generally thought of as the worst.  

[hussien-11]

because the slice of life, I think. its very very very well done, the best I've read with Rewrite. though I didn't finish the common route yet.

[bogdankl]

in my opinion it is the combination of a badass reliable and somehwat likable protagonist helping pretty drawn girls with severe problems, the art, protagonist and theme are all pretty good and fuse together verry well and it's more accessible in my opinion, when i first started vn's the style of vn's like rewrite used to turn me off completly, but grisaia is somewhat... i dunno feelt more accessible, also probably a gateway into vn's for many people similarly to katawa but that's unfounded speculation

 

sometimes you don't need to do one amazing thing, all you need is a lot of things good enough to creeate something great, but i have been known to be somewhat bakka so you shouldn't take me seriously ^^

[Suzu Fanatic]

 

Um... I don't really care if the common route is boring, as long as the routes are good. But Rewrite had the best common route I've played, the best routes I've played too, the only thing bad about it was Terra.

 

 

 

 

And that's why opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one. For my own, I was tempted to drop Rewrite because the common route lacked anything engaging, and tried for way too long and too hard to be "funny" - whereas Grisaia at least had enough foreshadowing into each heroines story to keep me interested. And the mixture of seriousness and humor just felt a better blend.

 

This is one of those situations where no one will ever universally agree on a VN being "good" or "bad", there will always be exceptions. So, asking "what makes it so good?" is completely pointless, due to the subjectivity of a persons tastes and what they want/get out of a story.

[storyteller]

For me, GnK was good because its common route had me laughing at my hardest in a loooooooong while.

I also loved Makina and Yuuji as characters. Makina's ending creeped me out, too.

[Albedo]

It's very simple, really.

 

The premise, it's the ultimate white knight simulator. Think about it, "you" are the ultimate delta special forces ex-secret agent sarcastic badass marine, a dude that weights 120 pounds wet and has the same muscle mass as your average pro-ana supporter but can take out the entire UFC roster if need be, a mary sue if there ever was one, who comes to a school... that only has girls. And they all want the D, or will want the D (since it's that kind of game, you KNOW that they will want the D, you are supposed to know) So far so good. Except that you find out that the girls are damaged. They have "issues," they're complicated. But you? Oh, you can fix them. And they will want your D in the process. Some of them might even call you daddy. Of course, you have to save them, but you'll be a badass about it, sometimes to ridiculous extremes, to a point where the MC's actions defy logic and human rights themselves. But that's okay, because he's a badass former ranger 00 agent licensed to kick ass who's never wrong, so everything will be fine in the end. 

 

It's about wish fulfillment, in the end. It's designed to push an otaku's romantic buttons with surgical precision, and I really admire the writers for it. Oh, and the common route drags like fucking hell, but Angelic Howl is really good. And Makina's bad ending is gold.

[CHITARD]

just finished Amane's route and have to say wow... love the MC so fcking cool and relatable.

does anyone know what was inside the hole that a certain person dug up? maybe its in another route to hint whats inside

[Rose]

does anyone know what was inside the hole that a certain person dug up? maybe its in another route to hint whats inside

[Clephas]

I haven't played the English version, so I honestly don't know what it is like.  However, from my experience with the Japanese version, as well as with hundreds of other VNs, I can easily tell you what I think stands out about it.

 

1.  A solid plot for each heroine's path- This might sound like a matter of course, but in most VNs, heroine paths are generally excuses for H-scenes, with minimal drama and weak stories.  Michiru's path is the weakest by far, but even hers was fairly solid from an objective perspective (setting aside the fact that Michiru sucks except for comic relief).

 

2.  A protagonist who stands out as a round character- To be blunt, VN protagonists tend to be flat or a bit weak-willed, to allow people to self-insert into the story.  Grisaia's protagonist is a powerful personality, with a strongly written internal narrative that draws you into his somewhat warped vision of the world (he is also a bit of a tribute to the protagonist of Full Metal Panic, lol)

 

3.  A background setting that stands on its own and is properly utilized to strengthen the plot- Very few VNs manage to both create an interesting setting and utilize it properly.  This is an important element when writing any story, but failing to fill out the setting and/or failing to utilize the setting's properties as part of the plot are weak points.  The fact that Grisaia manages to so thoroughly fulfill this requirement is one of the secrets to its success.

 

4.  An interesting/amusing character dynamic and characters in general- Simply put, developing the story's characters as well as their connections to one another is probably the biggest strong point of many high-quality VNs.  Grisaia fulfills this aspect in spades, as the heroines' relationships to one another as important as their relationship to Yuuji, birthing many interesting situations and much laughter.

 

 

Edit: Another important point is that two of the characters - Amane and Yuuji - are basically adults in all but name.  Most VN heroines and protagonists tend to be pretty immature.  This allows Yuuji to take on the role of a mentor to Makina and for Amane to be something of a mother to all the characters.  Speaking from experience, one of the best protagonist roles is for them to be a mentor (outside of rapegames and choukyou).  Just off-hand, I can think of four kamige where the protagonist fulfills such a role in at least one path.  The simple act of putting a (relatively speaking) psychologically mature protagonist into such a role creates some really interesting character interactions. 

[starlessn1ght]

Trust me on this.  Best start ≠ good route.  The first half is good, and then the second half gets dumb, even dumber than the frozen turkey bit in Yumiko's route.  There's a reason why so many people dislike it.

 

Hm... I've just finished Michiru's route and I really liked it. It was the best of the three I've played until now: Yumiko, Makina and hers. I saw nothing dumb like that turkey shoot here. I liked the way it dealt with

egoistical suicide

I'm also liking the way Grisaia plays with common character archetypes, giving them more depth and also the sociology themes. This route made me like Michiru much more, now she's my favorite heroine.

[Nightmare799]

It's very simple, really.

 

The premise, it's the ultimate white knight simulator. Think about it, "you" are the ultimate delta special forces ex-secret agent sarcastic badass marine, a dude that weights 120 pounds wet and has the same muscle mass as your average pro-ana supporter but can take out the entire UFC roster if need be, a mary sue if there ever was one, who comes to a school... that only has girls. And they all want the D, or will want the D (since it's that kind of game, you KNOW that they will want the D, you are supposed to know) So far so good. Except that you find out that the girls are damaged. They have "issues," they're complicated. But you? Oh, you can fix them. And they will want your D in the process. Some of them might even call you daddy. Of course, you have to save them, but you'll be a badass about it, sometimes to ridiculous extremes, to a point where the MC's actions defy logic and human rights themselves. But that's okay, because he's a badass former ranger 00 agent licensed to kick ass who's never wrong, so everything will be fine in the end. 

 

It's about wish fulfillment, in the end. It's designed to push an otaku's romantic buttons with surgical precision, and I really admire the writers for it. Oh, and the common route drags like fucking hell, but Angelic Howl is really good. And Makina's bad ending is gold.

[starlessn1ght]

Really?  You didn't think the whole "double personality because of a heart transplant" thing was stupid?  That's

pseudoscience, and makes absolutely no sense with the rest of the routes.  Instead of pure emotional trauma, they involve ridiculous stuff that would be out of place in any story that wasn't a fantasy novel.  It was so poorly received that it got retconned in the sequels.  Vokoca said that the "Other Michiru" basically gets turned into an imaginary friend in Meikyuu.

 

In the world of Grisaia it was possible. It was science there. This is what matters.

[starlessn1ght]

Pseudoscience is not science.  Pseudoscience is stuff people claim is science without any actual proof, hence why it's labeled as pseudo(fake)science.  Just because it was in a visual novel doesn't make it scientific. 

The fact that they used pseudoscience, instead of something real like multiple personality disorder or borderline personality disorder, is what ruined her route for me.  Instead of having Michiru actually have an illness related to her trauma, she instead gets a pseudoscientific affliction.  That just screams weak plot.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Michiru, I just hate her route because it could have been so much more than what it actually was.

 

It is pseudoscience in real life. But in Grisaia, it was real science. You just have to close your eyes to reality while reading it.

[Down]

I wouldn't call that science or pseudo-science but rather mysticism/magic. It's kinda light, like what Key does sometimes, but it's still that.

 

The question of what is okay or not in fiction is kinda tricky (suspension of disbelief etc) and sadly varies from people to people... in my opinion it's bad in Michiru's route because it comes out of nowhere and is kinda bullshitty, but also because the story would have been much more interesting with a different explanation imo. It's an easy way out that's too big to swallow.

[TexasDice]

Unrealism isn't the right thought here, it's being unbelievable. Something this weird and alien needs to be setup properly, or it will come out of nowhere, confuse and break immersion. Especially considering how it's an anomaly limited to a single route.

 

Compare it to the following scenario: You're watching a Liam Neeson revenge-movie about him trying to free his daughter from a bunch of thugs in a war-torn country. And halfway through the movie, Dr. Frankenstein appears and starts to resurrect corpses. 

[starlessn1ght]

Anyway, I find it rather amusing that reading Michiru's route makes you think that Kajitsu is a good VN.  

 

Eh... Not really... I really liked her route, but if I would rate it I would give it a 7.6 or something close to that. Makina's would be 6 and Yumiko's 5. One okay-but-a-little-bad route (Yumiko's), one yeah-good route (Makina's) and a-quite-above-good route (Michiru's) doesn't make Grisaia good, because I still have to read the other two.

 

Comparing it to Rewrite, it is almost already worse than it. All Rewrite routes (except Terra) were at least, impressive imo. There was the awesomest of the awesomes, Lucia's route, the very touching and amazing Shizuru's route, the interesting and epic Akane's route, the action-packed and cool Chihaya's route and the dark, kinda meh, but still impressive Kotori's route. All of them were high quality and all gave useful information about the main plot. Next in Grisaia I'm going to read will be Amane's route. 

[Rose]

It is pseudoscience in real life. But in Grisaia, it was real science. You just have to close your eyes to reality while reading it.

 

Really small spoilers from Meikyuu, not even from the plot, just about the specific issue here:

 

It was so bad that it got changed on the sequels. The routes tried to be as believable as possible given the characters' abilities and all that, but Michiru simply did not fit into it.

[starlessn1ght]

Unrealism isn't the right thought here, it's being unbelievable. Something this weird and alien needs to be setup properly, or it will come out of nowhere, confuse and break immersion. Especially considering how it's an anomaly limited to a single route.

 

Compare it to the following scenario: You're watching a Liam Neeson revenge-movie about him trying to free his daughter from a bunch of thugs in a war-torn country. And halfway through the movie, Dr. Frankenstein appears and starts to resurrect corpses. 

 

Um... Thinking about it, yeah... You have a point. But it still didn't feel like that for me, and I didn't have any problems with it. I still really liked her route.