What are you playing?

[ciel_yuri]

4 hours ago, adamstan said:

 

I liked PE very much, it is near the top of my VN list, with score of 8.5

I plan to reread all-ages version some day, as I bought it on Steam too. 

All-ages version is direct port of console version, with some replacement content for h-scenes. (that's why, unlike with the fandisc, there's no +18 patch from Mangagamer, as the versions differ too much). I think it should be good in this version too - while h-scenes were actually quite nice in this VN, not showing them shouldn't harm the story, assuming it's only the actual sex-scene being cut, like in Sanoba Witch.

But if you don't like moeges or anything close to them - obviously don't bother with it, as it is just sweet romance story.

I actually got mine in that humble bundle deal awhile back. I guess I didn't really pay enough attention, because I was kinda disappointed that I ended up with a few all ages versions. That really doesn't sound too bad though. When it's just removing scenes there's not much incentive, but if the new scenes are any good I might even prefer this version. (I just hate how some VNs the H scenes feel so random and kinda tacked on.) Thank you though. I think I'll definitely give it a shot.

[adamstan]

I haven't read that version yet, so I don't know how much new content is there, and where is it placed.

I just rely on descriptions from VNDB:
for PSP release: " Contains new CGs and improved graphics. "
for all-ages PC release: " Contains improved graphics and additional CGs from PSP version. "

BTW, it seems that adult version is currently on sale at Mangagamer, being almost 50% off, going for $25 instead of regular $45.

[snowbell55]

3 hours ago, ciel_yuri said:

I actually got mine in that humble bundle deal awhile back. I guess I didn't really pay enough attention, because I was kinda disappointed that I ended up with a few all ages versions. That really doesn't sound too bad though. When it's just removing scenes there's not much incentive, but if the new scenes are any good I might even prefer this version. (I just hate how some VNs the H scenes feel so random and kinda tacked on.) Thank you though. I think I'll definitely give it a shot.

For what it's worth I'm a really big PE fan, got the VN during the Humble Bundle sale, and read the all ages version. I haven't yet read the 18+ release yet but the all ages release didn't feel like it was missing anything and I didn't feel like it was cut, or frankly even notice the edits. Like adamstan said, if you do want to read the 18+ version it's on sale so may as well get it while it's discounted, but I don't think there'd be as drastic a difference between the releases to the point where one is clearly superior over the other. IMO it'd definitely be worth a read if you like the premise, and it's my third favorite VN (I'd give it a 9 out of 10). 

[LemiusK]

I hate to beat a dead horse but... after barely making through my second Bad End in Root Double, my feeling that this SSS system is clunky is further reinforced than before. During that moment that 

Spoiler

Kazami suddenly knocked Watase against the wall for acting like a reckless goof, Watase had claimed that he wanted to "protect her," which was why he recklessly grabbed the fire hose instead of letting her do her job. 

And that made me wonder if I had messed up somewhere with my previous choice, because that was definitely not my intention during that previous SSS choice.

And through trial and error, I did eventually discover that it was indeed my mistake. Because the system is so vague and uninformative, I had accidentally maxed out Kazami's senses bar because I thought it meant that Watase would put his trust in her, since that seemed to be what "maxing out the senses bar" seemed to do earlier on in the game. Now the game is telling me "maxing it out" means something completely different, and this led to Kazami calling me out as 

Spoiler

an arrogant chauvinist male trying to protect Kazami because she's a woman

which just felt totally unsatisfying and frustrating, because it's not what I had intended, and it's as if I have no control at all over the protagonist's actions, unable to prevent him from acting like an idiot.

This wasn't the first time the SSS has led me to a random result so far, and if the rest of the game is like that, I'm afraid I would definitely have to leave a negative review for it at its Steam page. It's not some unrelated issue like translating error (which can be blamed on the translators, not the developers); it's a gameplay issue that has to do with the design.

So, I guess I might as well just follow the walkthrough. I usually really, really hate using a walkthrough for VNs, because I like making dialogue choices by myself, but in this case, with how broken the choices are, I think I have no other option. Otherwise, the rest of the game will be filled with similarly unpleasant surprises.

Anyway, following the walkthrough means that all the decision-making process is pointless, since I would already know what is the "correct" choice to make. It will make my reading experience much more mundane and mediocre, but oh well.

Edited November 27, 2018 by LemiusK

[ciel_yuri]

3 hours ago, snowbell55 said:

For what it's worth I'm a really big PE fan, got the VN during the Humble Bundle sale, and read the all ages version. I haven't yet read the 18+ release yet but the all ages release didn't feel like it was missing anything and I didn't feel like it was cut, or frankly even notice the edits. Like adamstan said, if you do want to read the 18+ version it's on sale so may as well get it while it's discounted, but I don't think there'd be as drastic a difference between the releases to the point where one is clearly superior over the other. IMO it'd definitely be worth a read if you like the premise, and it's my third favorite VN (I'd give it a 9 out of 10). 

Wow, you guys are getting me pretty excited to read this. I thought it looked fun, but for some reason I didn't think it was supposed to be very good. I'll probably start this next once I can finish something else.

I've been jumping back and forth between so many things that soon I should be finishing a lot of stuff. I'll report back soon.

[Decay]

3 hours ago, LemiusK said:

I hate to beat a dead horse but... after barely making through my second Bad End in Root Double, my feeling that this SSS system is clunky is further reinforced than before. During that moment that 

  Reveal hidden contents

Kazami suddenly knocked Watase against the wall for acting like a reckless goof, Watase had claimed that he wanted to "protect her," which was why he recklessly grabbed the fire hose instead of letting her do her job. 

And that made me wonder if I had messed up somewhere with my previous choice, because that was definitely not my intention during that previous SSS choice.

And through trial and error, I did eventually discover that it was indeed my mistake. Because the system is so vague and uninformative, I had accidentally maxed out Kazami's senses bar because I thought it meant that Watase would put his trust in her, since that seemed to be what "maxing out the senses bar" seemed to do earlier on in the game. Now the game is telling me "maxing it out" means something completely different, and this led to Kazami calling me out as 

  Reveal hidden contents

an arrogant chauvinist male trying to protect Kazami because she's a woman

which just felt totally unsatisfying and frustrating, because it's not what I had intended, and it's as if I have no control at all over the protagonist's actions, unable to prevent him from acting like an idiot.

This wasn't the first time the SSS has led me to a random result so far, and if the rest of the game is like that, I'm afraid I would definitely have to leave a negative review for it at its Steam page. It's not some unrelated issue like translating error (which can be blamed on the translators, not the developers); it's a gameplay issue that has to do with the design.

So, I guess I might as well just follow the walkthrough. I usually really, really hate using a walkthrough for VNs, because I like making dialogue choices by myself, but in this case, with how broken the choices are, I think I have no other option. Otherwise, the rest of the game will be filled with similarly unpleasant surprises.

Anyway, following the walkthrough means that all the decision-making process is pointless, since I would already know what is the "correct" choice to make. It will make my reading experience much more mundane and mediocre, but oh well.

Yeah, the SSS system is a mess. There are way too many options available to the player (why do they give like nine settings per character??) with no indication on what any of them actually imply at the various branch points in the story. I don't have too much of a problem with inadvertently hitting bad ends, but in Root Double, getting the good ends requires way too much trial and error. I resorted to a walkthrough after running into the same situation you posted about with Kazami.

[Rain Spectre]

The kicker is that Root Double's actual writing and story is really good, but the SSS system is such a mess that it repeals people >>

[Inorin]

8 hours ago, LemiusK said:

Anyway, following the walkthrough means that all the decision-making process is pointless, since I would already know what is the "correct" choice to make. It will make my reading experience much more mundane and mediocre, but oh well.

Which walkthrough are you following? The steam walkthrough has a few missing choices so it's best if you proceed with caution. As for the SSS system, yeah it's irritating but don't let it get to you too much since the story's pretty good.

Edited November 28, 2018 by wei123

[LemiusK]

1 hour ago, wei123 said:

Which walkthrough are you following? The steam walkthrough has a few missing choices so it's best if you proceed with caution.

I'm following the Fuwanovel one.

 

1 hour ago, wei123 said:

As for the SSS system, yeah it's irritating but don't let it get to you too much since the story's pretty good.

Yeah, I know that the writer for Ever17 wrote this or something, which is the only reason why I'm still giving it a chance instead of dropping it. That being said, even Ever17 didn't exactly grab me as much as much better written stories with better pacing like Umineko or Fate/Stay Night (or even Grisaia for that matter), especially when you consider the criticisms I've posted earlier (regarding Sora's route in particular), and honestly, Root Double's story isn't that exciting either so far (and I'm starting with Root After too). Furthermore, I read that the final route is 90% flashback or something with repeated storyline... yeah, not having a good feeling about the story.

Edited November 28, 2018 by LemiusK

[Rain Spectre]

Correction. Ever17's director worked on Root Double. Uchikoshi was off working on Zero Escape by that point. 

[LemiusK]

1 minute ago, Rain Spectre said:

Correction. Ever17's director worked on Root Double. Uchikoshi was off working on Zero Escape by that point. 

Hm. Yeah, Zero Escape is yet another "popular" story/VN that didn't work for me either. I mentioned before in a comment for my blog entry about VNs with choices that I really don't care much for mysteries and "intellectual" stories; thinking about Zero Escape and Ever17 reinforces that feeling.

[littleshogun]

I guess it's up to each of their own in regard of Root Double there, so I wouldn't hold a grudge against the criticism to that lol. That said, personally I already used to using the walkthrough for each time I play the VNs, so I didn't really have the problem for using the walkthrough lol. So yeah I didn't really have the problem with SSS, although admittedly it's quite annoying though that I need to minimize the VN each time I played it full screen to see the walkthrough.

[LemiusK]

13 minutes ago, littleshogun said:

That said, personally I already used to using the walkthrough for each time I play the VNs, so I didn't really have the problem for using the walkthrough lol.

Yeah, it's a kind of problem that I only have, and maybe a minority of others who enjoy VNs with dialogue choices (or enjoy them as a form of pseudo-dialogue simulator) like I do. There's a reason why dialogue choices were designed that way in many visual novels. Maybe they started out as a convenient way to include a multiple-route system, but I feel like over the years, VN developers have utilized this gameplay to provide a deeper connection with the reader, and using walkthroughs just feel like it would cheapen that connection IMO, since you might as well be reading a kinetic novel without bothering with choices.

[Dreamysyu]

On 11/25/2018 at 3:25 PM, Dreamysyu said:

it looks like this could easily become one of my top-5 favorite VNs.

#animewasamistake

[littleshogun]

Finished with Sui's route at Hatsukoi Sankaime, and the ending was quite abrupt considering that the route finished at the same time they finished with the recording while back at Yurino's route they also allow the movie to be watched in school. Forget to say that the MC (Yanagihara Taichi) and the heroines did have setting that they have film club, and that they record the movie to have the achievement in regard of club activity. Anyway back to Sui's route, her conflict is just she attempted to ship both of Yurino and Taichi only to be ended in failure because Taichi was already firm with his decision with Sui, even with the fact that Sui herself is Taichi's blood little sister (Yeah the parents didn't have any problem with that whatsoever, and even Mrs. Yanagihara did teach Sui of how to do blowjob lol). As for Togawa, well he's slightly helpful here I guess even though his presence was still faint. Forget to say that Sui here is quite a brocon one.

As for the next route, I'll going with Himeka who is the 3rd grade and also the leader of film club and quite mischievous at that. Like I promised earlier, I'll explain about the route order here. In here, other than film club setting we also have loli character called Rin who is appeared in front of Taichi. At first she was only visible to Taichi, but gradually she started to be visible in front of heroines as well before Rin disappear at the end of common route, causing the casts to be grieving because of that seeing that they already bonded with Rin. For the route order, I'd play it based on the order of how they saw Rin. So the first girl that can saw Rin after Taichi is Emilia, followed by Yurino, then Sui, and the last one is Himeka. I knew that there's Misaki as well who is Taichi's first love, but she's special one so I'll save her route for the last. For the last note here, gonna look forward to both of Himeka's and Misaki's routes here seeing that both of those routes did contain the story context of Sankaime from what I'd hear.

PS - As for Sui's seiyuu, her name in here is Uehara Aoi or if you prefer the real name it would be Fukada Ai in which she'd more well known compared to Yurino's seiyuu. As for her role, she did voiced Nanase Koharu in Imouto Paradise (Coincidentally another blood little sister character), Asaba Konami in Saku Saku (Hattrick in voicing blood little sister character lol), Beethoven in Eiyuu Senki, Kazato Asa in Konosora, Shion Misono in Healing Harem, and Suzuki Miu in Chrono Clock. I just want to say that looks like she's been pigeonholed to voicing little sister characters here.

Edited December 16, 2018 by littleshogun

[adamstan]

I'm currently rereading Princess Evangile, this time All-ages edition. It turned out that I read it almost exactly year ago (Nov 2017).

It's still fun, and what stands out to me again is music - I really like it.

On a side note, I could swear that those background-dialogues (like girls whispering about Masaya in the classroom, accompanied by SD CG) were voiced, but it turns out they weren't But then, it's not the first time it happens. In my memories, girls from Katawa Shoujo have voices (and some even from PE - I "remember" Hanako speaking with Ritsuko's voice, and Lily with Marika's) - and that one was completely unvoiced.

[Alcorin]

Since my classes are canceled for the next two weeks (thanks, climate change!), I finally have the time to do some reading. Here’s what I’ve been up to:

Bad End. It was decent. I liked the story well enough, and the mystery of a killing game kept me interested throughout. The characters, while not all that interesting, were at least sympathetic enough not to turn me off. That being said, I have some minor complaints, so spoilers, I guess?

Spoiler

- I wish the introduction was longer. As it is now, we have one (1) short scene of the MC and his best buddy hanging out, and 5 minutes later (if you read slowly, like me), the buddy is dead. I’m sorry, what? I get that they didn’t want to waste resources on a character that was going to die in the first arc anyway, but his death is what motivates the MC to start playing Bad End and basically gamble his life to uncover the truth of it… So I suppose that their relationship was supposed to be important, right? Maybe it’s just me, I admit, but my reaction was literally just “Oh, he’s dead. Ok.”, and then “Nah fam, we’re good, drop it” (so my first ending was one in which the investigation ended before it even begun… didn’t even boot up the game). Yeah, yeah, I know, they’ve had a cool mystery story to tell and really wanted to get into it… As I said, it’s just how I feel.

- The bulk of bad ends are just the same shit over and over again. I thought that a game literally titled “Bad End” would have some cool game overs, but nope. It’s pretty much just both MCs dying in slightly different, but overall the same and repetitive ways. Did I expect too much? Some variety is all I’m asking for…

- The true ending was dumb. Ok, let me rephrase it: the shoehorned romance was dumb. Seriously, Kouko wakes up in the hospital and is like “You know, I kinda really want a boyfriend.”, and the MC goes “Well I guess she’s hot”, and then they start dating. Like… Really? Really? Did that really have to happen? Did someone put a gun to the writer's temple and threaten to fire if the game didn’t end in romance? No build-up, no previous relationship, no nothing. The MC has more relationship build-up with his class president, for God’s sake… He didn’t even see Kouko as a waifu before (which, by the way, is such a wasted opportunity…). Honestly, I’m just disappointed.

 

NOBY. Yeah, I’m still slogging through this one. To be honest, I’ve lost most interest in it. The girls’ routes just aren’t as engaging to me as Ryo’s was, I suppose… Plus, the errors kinda started bugging me (get it?!). I’ve finished Yui’s route since last time and am getting through Shiro’s. I don’t have all that much to say, except:

Spoiler

- The writer(s) have never had a cat. Seriously, they are nowhere near as dumb nor delicate as the ones portrayed here. A cat (a feral one especially) isn't going to die just because you left it alone for one day! Even if it rains! Besides, do you know what a cat would do if you left it alone outside an abandoned building and it started to rain? It would go the heck inside!!! Cats don’t like getting wet! Cats aren’t stupid! They would be just fine!!! What is this drama-forcing, cat-killing bullshit?!!

- Why did Yui kill herself in her bad end, exactly? I’m really confused. It just came out of a left field… I mean, I get that she thought she was a burden to everyone and all, but… Doing a Sayori, really? A bit over the top, if you ask me…

- One good thing that I have to say about Shiro’s route is the fact that the other characters do not get dropped it in. It’s such a basic thing, I know, but after Ryo’s and Yui’s routes it’s a welcome change. Uhh, how low are my standards by now? Ten, fifteen meters underground? Yeah, figured.

 

Legends of Talia: Arcadia. Oh yeah, that one. I’ve read that one as well. Um… The dragon was pretty cool. I mean, have you ever seen an uncool dragon? Thought not. Hmm… Yeah, that’s it. I got nothin’.

[LemiusK]

Man, Ever17's ending just dragged on and on and on... It felt like I was watching the ending to "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King".

I kept finding myself distracted and switching to another VN because it's so boring.

And that same soundtrack, that same song on loop; it kinda numbed my brain hearing the same music for 10 minutes. Ever17 definitely doesn't have a great selection of soundtracks.

Edited December 1, 2018 by LemiusK

[LemiusK]

Ever17 Final Verdict
Wow, so that epilogue sucks. Was thinking that I could at least kill some time by reading the Tsugumi-Sora epilogue first to avoid double-posting, but wow... that epilogue sure fell flat on its face. Pointless and utterly stupid. Its existence was far worse than Sora's route.

Anyway, finally got through the True End. Thought it would never end. It's not a bad ending, but even though it answered most of the questions and mysteries, the ending still dragged on and on past the "answer" part of the story, making the ending feel unnecessarily bloated

Spoiler

and saccharine. And this is taking into consideration that I already had closure with two of the characters - You and Sara - during their epilogues, so to have another "round-them-up for a big farewell" moment...

Sigh. I just think that it's way too verbose.

It's funny that people were saying that this game is only worth playing for Coco's route, and while that's kinda true (because of the answers provided), I felt way more satisfied and emotional with You and Sara's epilogues. When I think about it, the reason for this is that 

Spoiler

from the moment You-hana explained everything, that was the threshold where I knew things were going to be alright and turned out okay. There was no sense of tension from that point on, but the story kept acting like there's still danger involved when Hokuto/Blick Winkel jumped in recklessly to save Takeshi/Coco. If there was indeed danger and Hokuto did indeed die, then that would've been an even worse ending because it made no sense that You-hana wouldn't have already prepared a work sub in 17 years. So no, I knew there was no real danger involved without the existence of the aforementioned plot-hole. 

And the ending just kept dragging and dragging even past that threshold, creating one false tension after another.

Also, I think the writers made a mistake of revealing Coco's fate that late in the story. Sure, there were 'hints' of that one remaining lifesign at the end of each epilogue, but that's pointless if I didn't feel the despair of KNOWING that Coco didn't survive for a FACT. The fact that I had to learn that late in the story that Coco did in fact die, just right before that I know she will be saved anyway, her being alive later on feels hollow. At least let me be depressed about Coco dying for several routes so that the True End feels more powerful and desperate, so that I would be much more anxious to find out whether if she will come out alive or not. But of course, that never happened. Poor story writing.

And what's with Coco's existence in Hokuto's route anyway? Is she a ghost or some kind of hologram? That was never explained.

And what about this Blick Winkel whatever? I still didn't know the exact nature of his existence because it was left in vagueness... 'till I read the wiki to find out that it's supposed to be the reader. Heh... I could understand what the writers were trying to do, and it's a nice idea, but it's a nice idea with a lousy execution. How was I supposed to know it's supposed to be the reader? I thought he's some omniscient entity, perhaps even a deity you couldn't see from another Infinity game.

Going back to the lack of tension and how the true end didn't feel satisfying. Do you know what the main characters spent 80% of the story doing? Can any one answer that? That's right - chilling, relaxing, and fooling around. Not exactly your Muv-Luv Alternative or Steins;Gate, where the characters had to literally fight through Hell itself to get to that happy ending. So by the time the ending comes and force me to read 10 minutes of even more fooling around like they've been suffering all this time... it just feels stupid and insincere.

Let me explain the emotional impact of a happy ending. After seeing the characters go through so much trauma, the readers would feel sad as well, and would have a burning desire to see a happy end for the characters, and they might even question whether if those characters would get a happy end or not in the first place. The more traumatic the story is, the greater the relief when readers see a happy ending. In other words, the more happy the characters are during the main story, the lesser the impact of an happy ending. Adding on the fact that most of the characters' troubles were already resolved in their individual routes, I had no reason at all to worry myself about their fates. The only fate that was in danger was Coco, but I didn't know about that 'till the very end of the true route, and even then, the danger was quickly resolved anyway when You-haru explained Blick Winkel's plan.

Tension and relief. It's a balance that writers need to achieve to write an entertaining story. Make readers feel tension and sadness, relieve them with happiness in the end. Tension and relief. Not bombard them with happiness > happiness > sadness > happiness > happiness.

Man, the more I think about Coco's ending, the more frustrated I am with this game, what with its failure to live up to its high reputation.

Let's take a similar story and show how THAT story managed to make the ending feel powerful and earned, 

Spoiler

AKA, Steins;Gate.

Like Ever17, Steins;Gate has a pretty similar tone at the beginning of the story - happy, comedic, and light-hearted. This changes, of course, when that unfortunate incident happened and about 70% of the story becomes this desperate struggle to prevent that tragedy from happening. It's a constant struggle just to ensure a bittersweet end could come about, let alone a happy one. THAT kind of desperation the characters feel was missing from Ever17. In contrast, when the happy ending DID come and we learned of Okabe brilliant plan, when Skyclad Observer started playing (in the anime anyway), that felt awesome, didn't it? Why did it feel so awesome and wonderful? To see Okabe and the rest finally get a win? Because they've been fighting all this time. Because they've been suffering all this time.

So when it finally comes to seeing the characters happy and moving on with their lives, that feels meaningful and powerful, because they've earned it, and we've been there with them, fighting alongside them.

Final Verdict: 5/10

Yep.

Edit:

Sigh. Fine. Maybe that's a little harsh. I was just so pissed with the ending. I did at least enjoy the other routes, so that 5/10 score wouldn't reflect my enjoyment at all.

Final Verdict: 7/10

Coco's route sucks.

Now that I think about it, doesn't Coco's route feel like Saber's route in Fate/Stay Night? In other words, an infodumping route, where the "info" being "answers" instead? Most of the route involves answering the mysteries than focusing on introducing even more conflict to keep readers' heart beating. Much like Saber's route, which was more about talking about the lore of the game too.

Furthermore, if you look at a VN with an "answer route" like Umineko, even that answer route "true end" tries to incorporate tension and suspense in the end, rather than just dump a bunch of answers on the reader.

Don't tell me that all the praises Ever17 got was because of those answers? Pffthahaha, I really hope that's not the case, because then, non-mystery fans like myself who doesn't care for mysteries and answers would just be bored and indifferent... Was I supposed to be impressed by the answers?

Edited December 1, 2018 by LemiusK

[Thyndd]

20 minutes ago, LemiusK said:

Don't tell me that all the praises Ever17 got was because of those answers? Pffthahaha, I really hope that's not the case, because then, non-mystery fans like myself who doesn't care for mysteries and answers would just be bored and indifferent... Was I supposed to be impressed by the answers?

Yeah, you were supposed to. Kind of. There are a lot of clues along the way and it's possible to figure out a good chunk of what's really going on. I'd say it's nearly impossible to figure out everything though, and that's because of:

Spoiler

The big trick of Ever17, Blickwinkel. The fact that YOU, the reader, were personally there, switching perspectives and being confused all the time, and that it was the character's plan all along to confuse you so that they could get the help of this "time god". 

Once you realize much sense that makes in the story and how brilliantly they avoid paradoxes, yeah, you are supposed to be surprised. That is, unless you literally don't give a shit about the explanation of it all. Then Ever17 is probably just not the right VN for you. You remember I told you that I didn't think Ever17 had a particularly memorable cast of characters? If you go in expecting amazing development and interactions, you are doomed. That's how it is, and I don't think Ever17 is a bad VN... it's very good at what it is, just not good at everything and, as it turns out, not good at those points that you regard the highest.

 

[LemiusK]

2 hours ago, Thyndd said:

Yeah, you were supposed to. Kind of. There are a lot of clues along the way and it's possible to figure out a good chunk of what's really going on. I'd say it's nearly impossible to figure out everything though, and that's because of:

  Hide contents

The big trick of Ever17, Blickwinkel. The fact that YOU, the reader, were personally there, switching perspectives and being confused all the time, and that it was the character's plan all along to confuse you so that they could get the help of this "time god". 

Once you realize much sense that makes in the story and how brilliantly they avoid paradoxes, yeah, you are supposed to be surprised. That is, unless you literally don't give a shit about the explanation of it all. Then Ever17 is probably just not the right VN for you. You remember I told you that I didn't think Ever17 had a particularly memorable cast of characters? If you go in expecting amazing development and interactions, you are doomed. That's how it is, and I don't think Ever17 is a bad VN... it's very good at what it is, just not good at everything and, as it turns out, not good at those points that you regard the highest.

 

I'm sorry, but I've already seen 

Spoiler

Steins;Gate, so unfortunately, the answers regarding paradoxes

didn't impress me. It's not the VN's fault because that particular VN was released way after Ever17, but still, it's an unfortunate fact that affected my enjoyment. The story explained away the same problem in a much more emotional and character-focused manner.

In other words, perhaps Ever17 is just a tad dated.

Edit: Also, yes, I would admit that the twist that 

Spoiler

Blick Winkel is basically the reader

was a nice twist, but that fact was kinda vague and unclear, so I didn't get to experience the "surprise" the game wanted me to... I thought he was just another character.

Edit 2: I guess I should probably either drop Never7 and Remember11 or place them lower on my wishlist if they're also answer-focused stories rather than character (or emotion)-focused ones.

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by LemiusK

[littleshogun]

Perhaps it would be the best here, considering that most of Never7 here is more in line with charage that did have some death hanging and moreso that Never7 biggest twist is sort of Ever17 prototype. As for Remember11, well if you did mean answer-focused story as a grand route should do the info dump the answer here, then it's should be good for you because Remember11 itself is infamous for didn't have the clear answer, and for the info Remember11 only have two routes compared of Ever17 five routes for the info. If anything, at least Uchikoshi here did up his games thanks to Shibuya Scramble according to his tweet below, so we have 999 here.

 

[LemiusK]

1 hour ago, littleshogun said:

so we have 999 here.

 Yeah, 999 was definitely more polished, its ending more satisfying because all the closure was actually concentrated at the end, rather than diluted into separate routes. Virtue's Last Reward was even better because the character-writing was improved, and their personality more fleshed out than 999. Haven't played Zero Time Dilemma because of its reputation.

Might try Never7 some time in the future.

Edited December 1, 2018 by LemiusK

[Rain Spectre]

See now what I mean when I say that everything in Ever17 was done better in Uchikoshi's later work?

Also, since this is a discourse about Ever17, I'm just going to put this out, Coco is fucking annoying. 

[LemiusK]

11 minutes ago, Rain Spectre said:

Also, since this is a discourse about Ever17, I'm just going to put this out, Coco is fucking annoying. 

Well, while I still find her cute in some parts, her comedy routine certainly did little to improve her route. At all. Her route was fucking boring. 

This is coming from someone who laughed at her first joke in the beginning of the story.

Edited December 1, 2018 by LemiusK