What are you playing?

[Rain Spectre]

CSG intrigues me. It's a work that I know garners a fair bit of acclaim, but it's highly esoteric and I rarely if ever see people discuss it. I guess because the premise is rather off-putting to anyone burnt out on poor quality Isekai, and it's difficult to do a relatively detailed but cohesive description of why one should read it.

[Dergonu]

Just now, Rain Spectre said:

CSG intrigues me. It's a work that I know garners a fair bit of acclaim, but it's highly esoteric and I rarely if ever see people discuss it. I guess because the premise is rather off-putting to anyone burnt out on poor quality Isekai, and it's difficult to do a relatively detailed but cohesive description of why one should read it.

The lack of a good translation is probably a big factor in why it isn't discussed much in the west. It's nothing like any other "isekai" game or LN. It's not actually isekai at all, he warps back in time. (The whole story is deeply rooted in actual historical events, and features mostly historical characters and historically accurate information and refrences.) 

It is among the longest and most difdicult VNs to read, so it's hard to get into. (If you don't have a decent grasp of Japanese history, even native speakers will have some issues following the story.) 

[Rain Spectre]

Don't even see it mentioned by JoP's.

I know it's technically not Isekai, but "Guy gets sent back to fuduel Japan to take part in the 47 Ronin, only much of the cast are genderbent into hot chicks" is likely to give people the same sort of impression. 

[Dergonu]

3 minutes ago, Rain Spectre said:

Don't even see it mentioned by JoP's.

I know it's technically not Isekai, but "Guy gets sent back to fuduel Japan to take part in the 47 Ronin, only much of the cast are genderbent into hot chicks" is likely to give people the same sort of impression. 

I would personally say the utsuge tag is fairly fitting for CSG, so if you go into it expecting a fun and cute harem game like standard isekai shit you're in for a wild ride, lol. 

The only people I personally know of who has played the JP ver would be Clephas and Conjueror. The length and difficulty might prevent some JOPs from playing it, I guess. I'm sure you'll find some talks about it around the internet if you just do some digging, though. 

[Rain Spectre]

Muramasa is from what I've heard really long, difficult and brutal, and it's very popular among JoP's and highly requested for an official localization as well. Maybe it's because Nitro+ is deeply respected while no one can even name the dev that did CSG?

[Dergonu]

Just now, Rain Spectre said:

Muramasa is from what I've heard really long, difficult and brutal, and it's very popular among JoP's and highly requested for an official localization as well. Maybe it's because Nitro+ is deeply respected while no one can even name the dev that did CSG?

Hard to say. I personally don't see much talk about Muramasa from people who have actually played it, and mostly just EOPs who wants it translated. Kinda the same with CSG, tbh. Inre has really just made CSG and sequels, so if you don't know about that universe I guess you won't know about them at all. 

Guess we shouldn't clog up this thread too much, so if you want to talk some more about this you can PM me here or on discord.  

[littleshogun]

Currently play Misa's route of Hoshiori, and so far it's full of romance there. So I would say that if you dislike charage then perhaps Hoshiori wouldn't be a good VN for you, because it didn't have much of story and more the interaction between MC and the heroines. I'll try to comment more on Misa's route later.

Other than Misa's route, recently I managed to finished Himeka's route back at Hatsukoi Sankaime and let's just say that the content of the route is quite dramatic because of several reasons, and other than that it's also involved the story behind of the setting (Kirigamine Island). So let me try to summarized the story in the spoiler below.

Spoiler

From Himeka's route, we knew that both of her and Misaki was the victim of the big airplane accident at 7 years ago that causing her to be in comma and paralyzed in her lower half. Because Himeka was a prodigy in piano Hikami CEO who is Yurino's father interested to help her, and thanks to that Himeka managed to recover although she can only move her upper half though. Of course being bored, she decided to try to separated the soul from her body through the use of Zero Signal (The wave that causing electric device be usable by not using cable) in which it happen to be researched by the scientist at Kirigamine. Through her spirit body, she managed to befriended Yurino and started the film club. By the time Taichi grieving because of Rin's loss, Himeka decided to help him and as the result Taichi managed to find her secret. Long story short, Taichi decided to find the way to cure Himeka's problem with the help of Senri, who other than his homeroom teacher and film club advisor was also happened to be the scientist that was responsible to Himeka's treatment. Of course while at first Taichi was failed, in the end he was successful at curing Himeka after 13 years of hard works (3 years after Taichi managed to became Senri's assistant, and another 10 years after Himeka was fall in comma again).

While the story of Himeka's route here was quite dramatic, in exchange of that her chance to be together with Taichi was less because of the comma thing. Like Sui, Himeka also think that Taichi was should be together with Yurino because Taichi was shown to have some feeling to the former because Taichi was have a heartbreak after being rejected by Misaki, although it's not as blatant as Sui's route though. Other than that, I like that Senri whose in other three previous routes was more active in this route, with important role at that namely to help Taichi to achieve his goal (Of course Senri here was want Himeka to be recovered as well). As for timeskip, while the long time was a bit unnecessary I think it give some interesting message, namely that you can still start over your life whenever your age is as shown when Taichi said that he'll start a new life after he managed to finally recover Himeka after 13 years of efforts (At most Taichi should be at 28 years old by the time of the epilogue).

As for the next route, well there's no other choice other than play Misaki's route. As for Misaki herself, she was sort of the reason why Taichi was started to live on Kirigamine because Misaki was rejected Taichi's confession.

PS - As for Himeka's seiyuu, I think everyone at least should recognize the name of Kawashima Rino whose been in voicing a lot of eroge characters. As for her roles, she did voiced Yatsushiro Yuzuriha from Flowers tetralogy, Cro from Chrono Clock, Sakurai Kei from Dies Irae (Sort of The Danza here), Kariu Nagisa from Koiresort, Toomi Yuna from Kindred Spirit on Rooftop, Tokisaka Yukari from Kara no Shoujo duology, Usami Haru from G-Senjou, Servalwi Endoss from Kamidori, Minakami Yuki from Subahibi, and Tsujidou Ai from Tsujidou.

Edited December 7, 2018 by littleshogun

[ciel_yuri]

Well, I just got the "crossing paths" ending in Root Letter. I hope the other ones are better. The whole thing has been kind of a disappointment so far. It is really relaxing and roaming around an unknown town trying to solve a mystery can be fun, but I thought it would be so much better.

[Fred the Barber]

Playing Sakura Sakura. It's aight.

I like the art style a lot. It's aged well, and I'm sure the stupid amount of effort that went into upscaling made this a much more enjoyable experience for me. TBH, the game looks better to me than any other recent release that comes to mind, probably because it hasn't gone too far down the moe route; modern VNs tend to look a little too distorted, in a cutesy way, for my preferences. I tried Sanoba for a while, but the art is really squishy and rounded, relative to my preferences...

The story's pretty run-of-the-mill, but it's been a good backdrop for the characters, and it's played out pretty well. I like the way it's balanced showing off all four of the heroines; I never know where the focus is going to shift next, and the common route is usually juggling background exposition for multiple characters at once, in a very natural way. Good pacing. Doing the sub-routes (like the "seven mysteries" stuff) can make things drag a bit... but usually I end up happier for having watched them.

This is also one of the few games I've played where I really feel drawn to all the heroines. Like, whoever is on the screen at any point in time, I'm thinking "Oh, she's my favorite." I tend to either drop VNs early or play them to 100% completion, so knowing that I'm not gonna be kinda half-interested through an entire heroine route is a nice plus.

All in all, pretty happy with Sakura Sakura. Still early going, though.

[Inorin]

3 hours ago, ciel_yuri said:

Well, I just got the "crossing paths" ending in Root Letter. I hope the other ones are better. The whole thing has been kind of a disappointment so far. It is really relaxing and roaming around an unknown town trying to solve a mystery can be fun, but I thought it would be so much better.

they aren't gonna get much better. In fact, some of them are kinda ludicrous and have no relation to one another whatsoever (except for "crossing paths" and "the bond of marriage")

[ciel_yuri]

6 hours ago, wei123 said:

they aren't gonna get much better. In fact, some of them are kinda ludicrous and have no relation to one another whatsoever (except for "crossing paths" and "the bond of marriage")

Dang Is the bond of marriage the true ending? or closest thing to one anyway? I should probably just go for that and then move on huh? Because, there's other things I'd like to get to that I'm likely to enjoy a lot more.

[littleshogun]

Somehow I managed to finished Misa's route, and it ended with the marriage. As for more detail comment about her route, well I'll do it when Natsuki's patch released but let me say that so far I'd like Misa's route here. As for the interface, I like that the date after time skip is still accurate even though the after arc did have a lot of skipping, in which while it should be given actually it's also said a lot when we have a VN like Subahibi that managed to have the year was mismatched (Should be at 2009 instead of 2012, in which it's the latter year setting according to VNDB premise). Other than accuracy of the years, I did find that Ryousuke being nameable here is at most just a gimmick because there's a several lines when the other characters did call his default name, unlike Fureraba in which only the lover who call Kyousuke's default name (Obviously both of Hoshiori and Fureraba here is better compared to Dal Segno when it came to have MC's default name voiced). For the last comment about Hoshiori for now, I like that we can skip to the heroines school arc and after arc after we finished it, and of course it can save a lot of time if we want to replay the routes later.

For my next plan, I think I'll go with finishing Misaki's route at Sankaime. While for Hoshiori, I think I'll continue it with Touko's route which obviously mean that I need to wait until Touko's patch is released.

Edited December 9, 2018 by littleshogun

[Page93]

Planned wanna reread Hoshiori, for me Misa is so lovely simply cause her curiosity, Rikka & Touko also amazing .

But I think Rikka & Touko patch can't be done in the end of year.

So Im gonna try play Fuukan no Grasesta or Tsukioto while watting.

 

[Inorin]

6 hours ago, ciel_yuri said:

Dang Is the bond of marriage the true ending? or closest thing to one anyway? I should probably just go for that and then move on huh? Because, there's other things I'd like to get to that I'm likely to enjoy a lot more.

Yeah I suppose bond of marriage is the closest thing to a true end that root letter has. Generally I wouldn't recommend skipping any of the routes (since you can't actually say you completed the game without actually completing it), but I leave it up to your own discretion.

Edited December 9, 2018 by wei123

[Larxe1]

Finished playing Chapter 1 of Chusingura.

Wow, that was an incredibly long rollercoaster of emotions. Seeing Suguha's change into a proper samurai felt natural and was awesome.

Spoiler

The end was sad, I now understand why some people call it an utsuge. Aside from Suguha's unlucky fate of being assassinated, I still think everyone got a warped happy end for them, they fulfilled their goals and died happy. On the other side, you could call it fucked up as the person they killed wasn't even the real enemy. Kira was just a bystander who got manipulated by the enemies and now in the end both their clans get destroyed while the pig and the corrupt official get what they want. 

Initially, the first heroine I was drawn to was Yasube but seeing Kuranosuke fight for the clan wholeheartedly was worthy of support. (typing kuranosuke feels weird since I cant help but think of her as how Suguha refers to her as the lord.) It still didn't feel like an equal relationship to me. While they may be lord and vassal, I think lovers should be equal and their standpoints can't be anymore further from that. 

Also one thing I hated in chapter 1 was how some deus ex machina gave Kuranosuke a wakizashi to cut the insides of the snake to go out. While the time loop itself is probably unbelievable but it's the understandable as it's the rules of the game but somehow a random wakizashi suddenly saves them? I hope there's some kind of explanation in the later chapters.

Next chapter is probably focused on Yasube based on the extra screen. I cant wait to see how Suguha's gonna get fucked here and not get a happy ending based on the reviews. Can anyone tell me if this game has a happy ending. Also thoughts on chapter 4 and 5? People keep telling me CH 123 was amazing while 4 5 went downhill and I'm afraid of that.

10

 

[LemiusK]

More h-scenes in "The Labyrinth of Grisaia". Honestly not surprised anymore that there's a buttload of ecchi, but man, most of the so-called "sex scenes" here are blatant rape. It's the kind of stuff that the feminist media would have a field day over, plastering the net with headlines like "That scene in Labyrinth was blatantly rape, and we should call it what it is." People would normally shun such products too, like how "Big Bang Theory" was frowned upon for its sexist undertones, or how "Goldeneye" was called out on its controversial Pussy Galore scene in retrospect.

But because this is Japan and a visual novel, it gets a free pass, and both Grisaia and Labyrinth still received much popularity and acclaim all over the world. It's the "normal" kind of thing you'd see in ecchi, after all.

Edited December 10, 2018 by LemiusK

[Riku]

Finally read Muv Luv and Alternative (which I don't understand why it's marked as 50+ hours when it's like 30+ hours, and I'm not really a fast reader).

So, my overall disappointment for what many people overhyped aside, let's talk about the best point of both VNs: Sprite gimmicks.

This is the most freaking amazing usage of the sprites I ever saw in a VN (well, not like I read that many anyway).

Lips and eyes aside, the way the characters change expression and move during the conversation is good. The fact that they actually change their direction depending on who they talk to. The fact the characters you don't talk to also change their expression and even move in the background. The usage of the depth of the background. How cute Kasumi is when her rabbit ears move with a sfx.

All these sprite gimmicks make the overall experience so alive and so much better that all the VNs I read so far (minus Bladr Sky, which is amazing in a different sense) feel like shit. And from now on the still sprites I'll see in all the VNs I'll read will feel really stale.

I didn't read that much discussions about Muv luv, so I don't know if it's actually praised along the story and all, but I feel like it should be, because to me it's the most stand out point of the VNs and the only thing that actually left an impression on me.

[Stormwolf]

It sure is a shame that titles like that show how low effort regular vns are.

[Thyndd]

4 hours ago, LemiusK said:

But because this is Japan and a visual novel, it gets a free pass

Thank God. 

47 minutes ago, Riku said:

Finally read Muv Luv and Alternative (which I don't understand why it's marked as 50+ hours when it's like 30+ hours, and I'm not really a fast reader).

So, my overall disappointment for what many people overhyped aside, let's talk about the best point of both VNs: Sprite gimmicks.

I would say it actually is around 50 to 60 hours for most people. Did you keep track of the time? Otherwise it could be that you were so engrossed that time just flew by 

It makes me sad that you didn't get what you expected from MLA. I know how harmful hype can be to one's experience, that's why I always try to keep it to a bare minimum, even with the so called and widely regarded as 'kamiges'. Oh well, I'm glad that at least you enjoyed the technical aspects. For a 2006 VN (and even by today's standards) it's freaking amazing. 

 

[Riku]

I did my maths.

Started Thursday around 8pm until around 2am. (6)

Had classes, so only started around 5pm to around 3am on Friday. (10)

Then from 11am to 1am on Saturday. (14)

And finally from 11am to 10pm on Sunday. (11)

So 6+10+14+11=41. But of course I ate and did other things on the side, so you can at least remove 2 or 3 hours (but most likely more than that), rounding the total time at around 38 hours.

So yeah, how the hell is this considered 50+ hours?

Edited December 10, 2018 by Riku

[LemiusK]

48 minutes ago, Thyndd said:

Thank God. 

Could you explain this rather inappropriate response?

Honestly. I wish people wouldn't quote me at all if they're going to give me pointless replies like that. Saves me the trouble of clicking the notification. Really ticks me off. Just ignore my post if you're gonna reply like that again, m'kay?

Edited December 10, 2018 by LemiusK

[Thyndd]

Just now, LemiusK said:

Could you explain this rather inappropriate response?

Honestly. I wish people wouldn't quote me at all if they're going to give me pointless replies like that. Saves me the trouble of clicking the notification. Really ticks me off. Just ignore my post if you're gonna reply like that again, m'kay?

M'kay

[adamstan]

Yesterday I finished rereading Princess Evangile (+ after stories from FD), to check all-ages version.

It was almost as much fun as it was the first time, almost year ago - it felt a little like returning to visit good old friends

TL;DR version:
   - best girl: Ritsuko
   - best route: Ayaka
   - best epilogue: Chiho (in FD)

Spoiler

Happy family life with your osananajimi? Hell Yeah!

Under heavy moege disguise, there lies another VN with family as one of its main themes. In every route the conflict is caused by family issues.

Spoiler

 

In Rise's, Ritsuko's and Ayaka's routes it's their mothers - Kaori and Misako - being trapped in their memories of student life at Vincennes and refusing to accept reality, regressing into their own dreamworld, while the focus of Chiho's route is Masaya's relationship with his father.

I'd say that Misako's story and the "magic of Vincennes" form kind of overarching main plot for the VN. The first glimpse is in Rise's route, which is focused on Kaori, who broke down completely because she couldn't accept the changes. Then, Ritsuko's route gives some hints about Misako's situation (who, at the Chant de Noel  cries "Stop defiling my memories!"), which is fully explored in Ayaka's route, that I consider final. At first glance Misako adapted better than Kaori - she lives kind of normal life - but, as is revealed in Ayaka's route, she's also broken and denying reality. Her problem was, in addition to being trapped in past memories, like Kaori, her pride combined with extremely high (up to the point of being skewed) sense of justice. Because of that, she couldn't confess or even admit her sin - stealing her best friend's husband, and the pressure finally broke her.

 

It's possible, that all-ages version made it all clearer to me, as I wasn't distracted by h-scenes (which were numerous in adult version - 5 per heroine, each consisting of two "acts". I didn't remember there being that many of them )

PE has really great cast - both main heroines and side characters. Most of the Konomi's lines or Ruriko's comments are golden

As for routes, I went with the order heroines are introduced - Rise, Chiho, Ritsuko, Ayaka. Chiho's route is kind-of stand alone, but it's connected with Rise's, so that order seems the best for me. Whatever, it's good to read Ayaka after Ritsuko.

Rise is very nice girl, if a bit jealous Truly "sun of the school" I loved the scene in her route was when she

Spoiler

kissed the scar on Masaya's back (which he got while protecting her from her mother)

That was really moving for me.

Chiho gets bonus points for being childhood friend The scenes in common route (and in the beginning of hers) when she fights with Rise over Masaya are hilarious I also really liked caring side of her personality.

Ritsuko - ah, Ritsuko, best girl according to many (myself included). On a surface, very serious and strict, but hidden underneath lies quite playful and sweet girl.

Spoiler

She was forced into the role of "good girl" due to her family circumstances. Breaking free from that mold is one of the main points of her route.

I love how she gradually opens up in other routes as well.

Ayaka - like her sister, hiding many surprises.

Spoiler

She had to play "the clown", to cope with being rejected by her mother. It was quite heartrending, when she said something along "When I wear the mask, it hurts less"... Reminds me a little of Yuka from Crescendo, although their situations are different. But both try to hide great suffering under playful mask.

 

Now let's talk specifically about All-ages edition. I was really curious how they handled it. It turns out to be somewhere between ASFOS and Sanoba Witch. All sex happens off-screen, but it's clear that it happens. However, some of the random scenes are just cut out - and it isn't noticeable, I was actually surprised by the amount of scenes when I skipped thru adult version to compare.

First time in each route is handled similarly to Sanoba, meaning there's lead in, then black screen at the act itself, and then "cuddling (or morning) after". Introductions were slightly rewritten, and in case the scene in +18 didn't have the "after", it was added. So for each route there are new CGs for the first scene.

In Rise's route, the lead-in is rewritten so Rise asks to take a shower. After she comes out we get CG of Rise wrapped in bath towel, then there's black out, and after that the cuddling scene that was present in adult version too.

Spoiler

Beginning of Chihos first scene is handled in similar manner, so we also get her new bath CG (slightly NSFW - "steam censorship", but definitely most fanservicey among replacement CGs):

Spoiler

She also gets absolutely cute new "morning after" scene, that wasn't present in adult version.

Spoiler

In Ritsuko's route in the beginning there's new CG of her sitting on the bed, being a bit nervous. Masaya comforts her and then after blackout there's cuddling scene the same as in adult version.

Spoiler

There's also replacement scene in bath later, where they just sit in the bath (Ritsuko wrapped in towel) and talk about various things.

Spoiler

In case of Ayaka's route, in adult version there wasn't cuddling after scene, so it has been added (pretty nice, if you ask me):

Spoiler

Also, similar to Ritsuko's route there's replacement scene in bath, where Ayaka in swimsuit washes protag's back.

Spoiler

For other changes - in common route one SD CG was removed, and the scene with Konomi reading eromanga has been rewritten so she doesn't read it aloud.

In Chiho's route rather explicit picture of the book they use for "studying" is replaced with the cover that reads "How to...". Also, the dialogue about creating martial arts club is moved from the night in the classroom (when there was random sex scene in adult version) to some other point later.

In FD epilogues there are no replacement scenes (as in this case all-ages version was created by MG), instead there's just short description along the lines "and then we made love until the dawn" .

All in all, it was really enjoyable version, and the lack of sex scenes didn't bother me - it was handled very well. It is much tamer than AA version of Sanoba, and a bit bolder than ASFOS.

My score for the whole VN remains the same - 8.5/10, really enjoyed it.

Edited December 10, 2018 by adamstan

[LemiusK]

1 hour ago, Thyndd said:

M'kay

Just for that quote, welcome to the ignore list. I warned you.

You can quote me however you want now, I don't give a shit. Not going to read your posts from now on.

If any one else has something more meaningful to add, feel free. Otherwise, my ignore list is always open for troublemakers.

Edited December 10, 2018 by LemiusK

[Dergonu]

16 hours ago, Larxe1 said:

Finished playing Chapter 1 of Chusingura.

Wow, that was an incredibly long rollercoaster of emotions. Seeing Suguha's change into a proper samurai felt natural and was awesome.

  Reveal hidden contents

The end was sad, I now understand why some people call it an utsuge. Aside from Suguha's unlucky fate of being assassinated, I still think everyone got a warped happy end for them, they fulfilled their goals and died happy. On the other side, you could call it fucked up as the person they killed wasn't even the real enemy. Kira was just a bystander who got manipulated by the enemies and now in the end both their clans get destroyed while the pig and the corrupt official get what they want. 

Initially, the first heroine I was drawn to was Yasube but seeing Kuranosuke fight for the clan wholeheartedly was worthy of support. (typing kuranosuke feels weird since I cant help but think of her as how Suguha refers to her as the lord.) It still didn't feel like an equal relationship to me. While they may be lord and vassal, I think lovers should be equal and their standpoints can't be anymore further from that. 

Also one thing I hated in chapter 1 was how some deus ex machina gave Kuranosuke a wakizashi to cut the insides of the snake to go out. While the time loop itself is probably unbelievable but it's the understandable as it's the rules of the game but somehow a random wakizashi suddenly saves them? I hope there's some kind of explanation in the later chapters.

Next chapter is probably focused on Yasube based on the extra screen. I cant wait to see how Suguha's gonna get fucked here and not get a happy ending based on the reviews. Can anyone tell me if this game has a happy ending. Also thoughts on chapter 4 and 5? People keep telling me CH 123 was amazing while 4 5 went downhill and I'm afraid of that.

10

 

Glad to hear you liked it. All this talk about the game is making me want to read it again  

To answer your questions, first off, I personally absolutely loved chapter 5. I was fairly sceptical before starting it, but boy, it blew me away. It has some of the most emotional scenes in the whole game. Ch4 is a little different, but definitely still enjoyable.

As for the ending:

Spoiler

Short answer, yes. I don't want to spoil any details, but I'll say this: by the end you'll definitely feel satisfied and happy with how things turned out.