Opinions about Cartagra/Kara no Shoujo

[SilverLi]

Hi Fuwa,

I saw the Tweet from MG about a Cartagra/KnS bundle which catched my interest. I have been interested in the two games for a long while but I have never really met anyone praising the games. But I like the art and the setting looks intriguing. What are your thoughts of the games? Worth playing or is it a waste of time?

[Tsuruchinite]

I haven't read Cartagra yet but I really enjoyed Kara no Shoujo's story, I like sad and deppressing stuff.  plus the little parts where the game has you help solve the mystery is a nice touch, makes you feel like you as a player are contributing to the story and not just reading it.  I also enjoyed all of the characters in it, which helps.  Just don't expect any happy story, and it was even fun getting the bad endings.

[Down]

I'm kinda really fan of Innocent Grey games for various reasons so I can only recommend them to you, really. I wrote a review of Cartagra here.

[Mugi]

Kara no Shoujo has a really good story, but the game is just too damn depressing. Basically, if you want a good mystery/horror/drama and don't care about good endings, then go for it. 

[Kaguya]

They are the only two good mystery VNs translated. Kara no Shoujo more so than Cartagra. Go for it.

[Salurian]

A friend of mine would probably fight you to the death for saying that (he's a big Umineko fan).

Innocent Grey (the company behind Cartagra/Kara no Shoujo) does a lot of high quality work.  The art is good, the story is solid. Now, that said, these are murder mysteries, and you do see some pretty graphic depictions of murdered women.  They are also not happy fun time fuzzy feeling games - the stories are good, but as noted about they are very dark.  There are characters that you like.  Depending on the choices you make, some of the characters that you like may die.

If you decide to play, I do recommend playing Cartagra first, then go and play Kara no Shoujo.  Kara no Shoujo is not a sequel per se (different protagonist) but some of the characters from Cartagra show up in fairly important ways in Kara no Shoujo, and without having played Cartagra you're going to be missing out on your knowledge of those characters.

That said, Kara no Shoujo is the better game, in my opinion.  Kara no Shoujo 2 actually is a direct sequel, is also quite good, and its translation comes out quite shortly, so you won't have to wait for that either.

If you're feeling brave, PP -Pianissimo- and Caucasus are also decent (but only in Japanese).  I still need to get around to playing through the two Flowers games...

[Stormwolf]

I liked Cartagra, it was dark and engaging but not depressing.  But i won't ever touch Kara no shoujo since it's a utterly depressing vn as far as i've gathered.

Poor Rin though..  

Is Umineko like any of those two? 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Stormwolf

[Down]

Umineko is not really like those at all. It's story about mystery stories (not a very well informed one but it's a central theme), but it's hard to think about it as a mystery story by itself. There's a mystery but it's not the classic detective mystery like IG games.

[Salurian]

It really depends on what route you go down with Kara no Shoujo.  Some routes end perfectly happily.  Others... not so much.

Umineko is...

>_<

Hm.  How best to put it.  On one hand, it is a mystery visual novel.  A very good one.  It is, however, very long, and has a high overarching meta plot that kicks in shortly after the first arc.  It's especially enjoyable for those very familiar with mystery tropes, as it deliberately explores a lot of them.  If you get the right version, you get it all voiced with the higher quality sprites.

But that said, you can't really draw parallels between the games, because they scratch a different itch.

Cartagra/Kara no Shoujo are a 'solve the mystery, find the murderer' more standard sort of game - and I mean that in a perfectly good way.

As Down noted, Umineko is more high brow, well here is this whole big mystery of the witch and what does she have to do with the murders and theorize and speculate and... ect.  It's the kind of game that you settle down with people who've played it afterward and then you guys start arguing as to what the heck has been going on the entire time.  The mystery is the mystery, if that makes any sense?  And I mean that in a perfectly good way.

They're good games, but the target is somewhat different.

[Stormwolf]

Mehh, i like mystery, but i don't like inconclusive endings.

[Salurian]

Neither do I.  A friend of mine argued me into checking Umineko out, and I don't regret the time spent on it.  It is a quite fun read.

Innocent Grey games are much better for someone looking for a more straightforward mystery.  I'm still trying to get noted above friend to read them and get his take on them.

[SilverLi]

I am probably looking into the game whenever I feel I got time to play it. Thank you for some opinions.

[Decay]

Mehh, i like mystery, but i don't like inconclusive endings.

I wouldn't say that Umineko's ending is inconclusive at all. It leaves a thing or two up to interpretation but the actual storyline has a pretty firm resolution.

[Tyr]

I'm probably the only person who has this problem, but my biggest issue with Kara no Shoujo is ... that it's way too feminine for my male taste. XD

Yeah really, the game is so full of feminine tropes, it's like reading some cheap dime novel for bored housewives.
While this would technically not be such a big problem (there is at least a murder mystery one can enjoy!), it really shows when it comes to the portrayal of interpersonal relationships and of course romance. I just can't get into it. It's like reading a josei manga. It just ... disgusts me (for lack of a better word) because it's so much contrary to every single one of my ideals about these topics..
It's also the reason I can't fap to Noesis games. I especially can't stand the portrayal of men (which means, how women think men are (and maybe even want them to be)).

Especially if you compare Kara no Shoujo with Cartagra, which was written by a men (though it doesn't necessarily have something to do with the gender of the writer, more with the style of the writing), you can see some subtle nuances. There is a relatively big difference in how Shugo's and Kuzuna's relationship is represented in both games, for example.

It's the reason I personally enjoyed Cartagra more than KnS, although KnS is objectively the better game by far.

[hussien-11]

but it's hard to think about it as a mystery story by itself. There's a mystery but it's not the classic detective mystery like IG games.

 

but its a classic mystery story, really. and it uses one of the oldest techniques too, closed doors mysteries.

I've started reading Kara no Shoujo, I just wish they used a better font type for the translation.

It's the kind of game that you settle down with people who've played it afterward and then you guys start arguing as to what the heck has been going on the entire time. 

 

and you are also supposed to solve the mystery and finding out who the true culprit is, there is enough hints for that even from the first episode

 

[SilverLi]

I'm probably the only person who has this problem, but my biggest issue with Kara no Shoujo is ... that it's way too feminine for my male taste. XD

Yeah really, the game is so full of feminine tropes, it's like reading some cheap dime novel for bored housewives.

Well I like shoujo so I don't think that's a problem.

[CeruleanGamer]

I haven't played Cartagra yet. Is it even worth the read if I already played KnS 1 and 2?

[KuroganeHomura]

I haven't played Cartagra yet. Is it even worth the read if I already played KnS 1 and 2?

Definitely. You'll know in advance that a few characters definitely survive to the end if you've played KnS 1 first, but I don't think that matters all that much.

[VirginSmasher]

Haven't played Cartagra yet, but Kara No Shoujo is a masterpiece in mystery in my opinion. The only thing I hate about it are the h scenes that don't fit into or add anything to the story.

[Tawm]

Haven't played Cartagra yet, but Kara No Shoujo is a masterpiece in mystery in my opinion. The only thing I hate about it are the h scenes that don't fit into or add anything to the story.

I'd agree with this. Not to mention how poorly drawn the uncensored CGs are. I thought it was a joke at first. It has a few technical issues as well. Mostly with the way the voices play out. Early on, there was also a bug in the notebook which displayed all information about some of the characters, essentially spoiling the story for those who checked up on new characters with each update.

[VirginSmasher]

Haven't played Cartagra yet, but Kara No Shoujo is a masterpiece in mystery in my opinion. The only thing I hate about it are the h scenes that don't fit into or add anything to the story.

I'd agree with this. Not to mention how poorly drawn the uncensored CGs are. I thought it was a joke at first. It has a few technical issues as well. Mostly with the way the voices play out. Early on, there was also a bug in the notebook which displayed all information about some of the characters, essentially spoiling the story for those who checked up on new characters with each update.

I never had any of those issues with my playthrough but you're right. Whoever decided h scenes should be put into a mystery/thriller should be sodomized with a black egg.