Otakon speculation and discussion thread

[littleshogun]

1 hour ago, Fred the Barber said:

My face when Sona-Nyl is put below Rance on the same tier with SonaHana:

About tier there, don't worry too much about it (And I apologized if some of you dislike my tier here). It didn;t mean to express my dislike toward Sona-Nyl here, but rather of how much I looking forward to the release and if the announcement caught my attention here or not. Okay, the answer here would be I also looking forward to Sona-Nyl here, but right now Hapymaher and Sorecery Joker caught my attention more here. As for Rance, the reason was I'd already keep my eye on the translation project before delayed back at 2015. So I couldn't help to be excited here to see Rance VI announcement here. For Sono Hanabira, well I kinda want to see the three cute couple there.

tldr - I was also looking forward to Sona-Nyl here. And the opening song was quite good.

PS - Maybe I should keep explaining that my tier was more in term of interest rather than if the game was bad or not here for next time here.

[ChaosRaven]

Not sure if it was already mentioned here (at least I didn't see it), but Sona-Nyl is getting the better art assets from the console version and Rance 6 will get a high resolution update for the English version.

[Fred the Barber]

48 minutes ago, littleshogun said:

About tier there, don't worry too much about it (And I apologized if some of you dislike my tier here). It didn;t mean to express my dislike toward Sona-Nyl here, but rather of how much I looking forward to the release and if the announcement caught my attention here or not. Okay, the answer here would be I also looking forward to Sona-Nyl here, but right now Hapymaher and Sorecery Joker caught my attention more here. As for Rance, the reason was I'd already keep my eye on the translation project before delayed back at 2015. So I couldn't help to be excited here to see Rance VI announcement here. For Sono Hanabira, well I kinda want to see the three cute couple there.

tldr - I was also looking forward to Sona-Nyl here. And the opening song was quite good.

PS - Maybe I should keep explaining that my tier was more in term of interest rather than if the game was bad or not here for next time here.

Nah, it's all good, I was mostly kidding. Everybody's got their own opinions, and I just really like the Steampunk games

Edit:

16 minutes ago, ChaosRaven said:

Not sure if it was already mentioned here (at least I didn't see it), but Sona-Nyl is getting the better art assets from the console version and Rance 6 will get a high resolution update for the English version.

They haven't guaranteed that they'll get the better art assets yet for Sona-Nyl, but yeah, koestl said they're going to try at least. No rights issues there, only potentially technical issues. For Rance 6 they guaranteed it, though.

[Narcosis]

I still can't believe Sona-Nyl got announced... but then, I already knew this will happen, sooner or later.

Thank you, based MangaGamer.

[Basileus777]

1 hour ago, sevencamelot said:

you think they will sell a box release of the Rance game or just digital?

I'd be very surprised if Rance doesn't eventually get a hardcopy. It won't be at release though.

[XReaper]

18 minutes ago, Basileus777 said:

I'd be very surprised if Rance doesn't eventually get a hardcopy. It won't be at release though.

they mentioned it´s indeed possible for rance to end up getting hardcopies, but that pretty much depends on its sales.

[Basileus777]

2 hours ago, XReaper said:

they mentioned it´s indeed possible for rance to end up getting hardcopies, but that pretty much depends on its sales.

Rance will definitely sell enough to get a hard copy.

[sevencamelot]

4 hours ago, Basileus777 said:

I'd be very surprised if Rance doesn't eventually get a hardcopy. It won't be at release though.

Kinda lame then.  It's not like most people would buy the digital then another hard copy.

[Basileus777]

1 hour ago, sevencamelot said:

Kinda lame then.  It's not like most people would buy the digital then another hard copy.

I agree, MangaGamer doesn't do hardcopies at launch to minimize risk, but with Rance they would definitely sell enough to justify it.

[Kairix360]

From Sekai Project's announcements, I think Fatal Twelve sounds like it could be interesting, and I would like to hear more about it. I'm glad to hear that they are going to bring the whole Narcissu 10 Anniversary Anthology Project to the Vita as well; more VNs that I can play on the Vita is always good! Hooray!

It sounds like MangaGamer is going to be releasing a lot of interesting things soon! Glad to hear Sono-Nyl was announced since that sounds like something I would enjoy. Not familiar with Hapymaher or Sorcery Jokers, but it sounds like they are very good games. I will have to look into those.

[Crayten]

Instead of announcing even more games it would be nice if Sekai Project would actually start releasing some of these titles. I mean just look at the huge backlog they allready have https://vndb.org/p162 and its getting bigger and bigger with every passing month.

[RikiSanic]

48 minutes ago, Crayten said:

Instead of announcing even more games it would be nice if Sekai Project would actually start releasing some of these titles. I mean just look at the huge backlog they allready have https://vndb.org/p162 and its getting bigger and bigger with every passing month.

This complaint is a little silly, though. People were disappointed that Sekai Project didn't announce a whole lot and yet MangaGamer announces 5 major titles and everyone's happy to accept. At this point, though, MangaGamer has announced more big titles than Sekai Project this year, and they have even more unreleased titles that were announced previous years. For example, MangaGamer still hasn't released Bokuten, Himawari, Da Capo 3, Kuroinu, and the Shadows of Pygmalion. Sekai Project's unreleased major titles from last year are Chrono Clock, Tenshin Ranman, and Wagamama High Spec. As you can see from their translation progress page, titles are being worked on, and many of their smaller VNs (some announced just a few months ago) are already 100% translated. Their big titles seem to progress rather slowly, which can be annoying, but the translations are all contracted, so it's not like they can force them to hurry up. They're also not going to wait for all of their titles to finish before they license more, because every publisher needs a constant stream of work so they can stay in business.

Look at MangaGamer's backlog: https://vndb.org/p428. If you remove the EVNs and currently-in-development titles from both companies, the number of titles each have is about the same, even though Sekai Project has more doujin VNs. Wait for convention season to be over and check back in a year from now. If they still aren't close to releasing their earlier announced titles, then you can worry.

 

[sanahtlig]

1 hour ago, RikiSanic said:

This complaint is a little silly, though. People were disappointed that Sekai Project didn't announce a whole lot and yet MangaGamer announces 5 major titles and everyone's happy to accept. At this point, though, MangaGamer has announced more big titles than Sekai Project this year, and they have even more unreleased titles that were announced previous years.

The difference is that Sekai Project relies on Kickstarter.  Having a large backlog makes backers uneasy.  The more projects going at the same time, the greater the loss to backers if Sekai Project suddenly folds.  A growing cascade of crowdfunding campaigns suggests reckless expansion, or worse, starting new projects to fund previous ones (a.k.a., a pyramid scheme).  Finally, too many simultaneous projects could stress the organizational apparatus overseeing all of them, resulting in lack of proper oversight and quality control.  These are all serious concerns.

MangaGamer is established, experienced, and boasts a fast-paced release schedule AND the quality control to back it up.  Not to mention that if they suddenly collapse, backers won't be left with the tab.

[RikiSanic]

I think they're kind of finally getting a hold on their Kickstarter campaigns, though. Grisaia should be fully translated by the end of the year (whether or not it releases by then is a different story), World End Economica's third episode is finally coming out soon, Narcissu has had steady releases, Memory's Dogma's first part is coming out soon, and Vita ports have been officially announced.

They also haven't launched a Kickstarter since Root Double back in January. They did launch two Indiegogo campaigns since then but their turnaround has been much faster. Still, other than the Nekopara anime, they haven't announced plans for more Kickstarters of their VNs, which is what I'd be concerned about. People are complaining that their non-crowdfunded titles are taking too long to come out. How do we know that they aren't focusing on their crowdfunding promises while those are being translated?

Like I said, though, they've had three panels in the past month and have only announced a few doujin titles. With only one planned convention left, it seems a little weird to tell them to stop announcing stuff. They probably will stop soon.

edit: Look at it this way: if Sekai Project had planned Kickstarter projects for even two or three of the VNs they announced this year, I'd be concerned too. But it honestly looks like their non-crowdfunded titles are taking longer than their crowdfunded projects. It's not like the promises to their backers are going to the wayside and other titles are being released sooner. It seems like they're just slow in general.

[Suzu Fanatic]

Time will tell. I have some concerns about the internal restructuring going on - but it may bear no weight.

[Basileus777]

2 hours ago, RikiSanic said:

For example, MangaGamer still hasn't released Bokuten, Himawari, Da Capo 3, Kuroinu, and the Shadows of Pygmalion. Sekai Project's unreleased major titles from last year are Chrono Clock, Tenshin Ranman, and Wagamama High Spec.

 

That example doesn't really illustrate your point as all of those MG titles other than Kuroinu are fully translated and near release while those SP titles are in early stages and probably a year+ away from coming out.  Clannad is pretty much the only example of a major SP title that was translated internally that wasn't beset with delays.  MangaGamer has the occasional project that takes too long, but they churn out longer titles much more reliably than anyone else in this business right now.

[Chuee]

11 minutes ago, Basileus777 said:

Clannad is pretty much the only example of a major SP title that was translated internally that wasn't beset with delays.

Most of their translations are outsourced anyways. Not to mention translation is always done by individuals, not the organization as a whole. If a translation is going at a slow rate then that's because the people working on it don't translate as fast as others you're comparing them to. 

[RikiSanic]

4 minutes ago, Basileus777 said:

That example doesn't really illustrate your point as all of those MG titles other than Kuroinu are fully translated and near release while those SP titles are in early stages and probably a year+ away from coming out.  Clannad is pretty much the only example of a major SP title that was translated internally that wasn't beset with delays.

That just means MangaGamer is better at announcing titles they've already begun translation work on. My main point was that publishers will add titles even if they have a backlog. As long as the new wave of titles is in a different stage of development, then that shouldn't affect too much what's being worked on currently (theoretically). Two of the big titles Sekai Project announced this year are using finished fan translations, so I still feel like their backlog is manageable and not out of control—not yet, at least.

One other title that was released timely from Sekai Project is KARAKARA. They estimated the release date back in February when the Indiegogo campaign launched and they managed to hit their date exactly. Pretty impressive for Sekai Project.

[Basileus777]

4 minutes ago, Chuee said:

Most of their translations are outsourced anyways. Not to mention translation is always done by individuals, not the organization as a whole. If a translation is going at a slow rate then that's because the people working on it don't translate as fast as others you're comparing them to. 

By internal I meant not using an already done fan translation, obviously everyone uses contracted workers. But it's a management issue if you are consistently unable to find translators that can work at a decent rate (or at a high quality considering some of the work SP has published). The WEE debacle and how they went through like 4 translators is a pretty glaring example of this.

[Chuee]

17 minutes ago, Basileus777 said:

By internal I meant not using an already done fan translation, obviously everyone uses contracted workers. But it's a management issue if you are consistently unable to find translators that can work at a decent rate (or at a high quality considering some of the work SP has published). The WEE debacle and how they went through like 4 translators is a pretty glaring example of this.

So you just want them to fire all the translators that don't work as fast as you want them to? Maybe you should manage the company then. I'm sure they'd be able to get work out at a much faster rate with 2-3 translators. The problem with some of the translations has to do with the fact that they started late. Wagahigh probably got off to a late start because, you know, the game didn't even release in Japan until this year. They probably waited until then or shortly before to begin translating it. Chrono Clock apparently they spent an assload of time sorting out engine problems (not that I would've waited on translation because of that, but it is what it is) and Tenshin Ranman had one of the planned translators quit abruptly (which is naturally going to set it off pace). Mangagamer and JAST have had plenty of translations run at a slow rate. Let's not forget that it took 3 years to translate all of Da Capo III, yet nobody's hounding them over their decision to not assign another translator to it. 

The WEE thing was an issue stemming from the fact that the existing translation for the first part wasn't done by them, and the translator that worked on for Mangagamer was fired by them for being mediocre. I have no idea what happened to it after that, except for the one translator they assigned to it but later replaced. To my knowledge that's the only time something like that's happened so there's no need to crucify them over it.

[Decay]

The only in-progress translation from SP I'm really confused about is Ley Line. But then again, I never fully understood what was holding it up when it was a fan project, either. I think what's most telling of SP's situation is Wagamama High Spec. They announced it long before the game's release, said they wanted to release it this spring and even entertained the possibility of a simultaneous release. Then after some delays they finally started listing progress a month ago, and it was at like 23% translation. It basically seems like Sekai Project has a manpower issue, they seem to have had some staff turnover issues that have kept some projects from progressing and generally don't have as many translators as they thought they would for handling everything in their pipeline.

SP actually have been announcing fewer big translations lately, though. At least, ones they'd have to handle from scratch. They announced SakuSaku and Baldr Sky at AX, both of which were adopted fan translations. Koikuma will be the big "everything must be done from scratch" project from AX. And nothing of particular note was announced at Otakon. As some of their smaller titles are releasing they're shifting staff onto bigger projects and are still finding new talent from outside the VN industry, which is a talent pool other companies haven't been able to tap into . The person they hired just a few weeks ago for Tenshin Ranman will have that as their first VN translation, for instance. 

So basically, things actually are progressing there now, and I think they're done announcing a large number of huge projects for the time being. It's interesting that the topic of SP announcing too much stuff for them to handle happened right after the con where they basically announced nothing.

[Chuee]

9 minutes ago, Decay said:

The person they hired just a few weeks ago for Tenshin Ranman will have that as their first VN translation, for instance. 

Just for clarification, that person worked on 2236 AD. When they finished working on that they got put on Tenshin Ranman (probably because they want the game out faster). 

[RikiSanic]

Hm, I had no idea that the Tenshin Ranman translator needed to be replaced; no wonder it didn't get much progress for a long time now.

I will say that the KARAKARA translation was pretty damn solid from what I can tell. Definitely one of Sekai Project's best releases, translation-wise. Hopefully that trend continues.

[Fred the Barber]

4 hours ago, RikiSanic said:

Hm, I had no idea that the Tenshin Ranman translator needed to be replaced; no wonder it didn't get much progress for a long time now.

I will say that the KARAKARA translation was pretty damn solid from what I can tell. Definitely one of Sekai Project's best releases, translation-wise. Hopefully that trend continues.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the Karakara translation. But Chuee's point is relevant there, as well - like all the translation companies, SP isn't a monolith. Even after one high-quality release, you can't really expect high-quality releases to become the new norm, unfortunately. You do have me wanting to find out who did that translation and what they're doing now, if anything, though...

[RikiSanic]

11 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

I also thoroughly enjoyed the Karakara translation. But Chuee's point is relevant there, as well - like all the translation companies, SP isn't a monolith. Even after one high-quality release, you can't really expect high-quality releases to become the new norm, unfortunately. You do have me wanting to find out who did that translation and what they're doing now, if anything, though...

True. The hope is that if a translator does a good job Sekai will hire them again, and eventually, after working with a number of good and reliable translators, they'll finally have a "team" of quality translators, similar to the way MangaGamer operates now. All it requires is someone at Sekai Project who can spot the good from the bad. I don't know whose responsibility that is but I hope they're keeping a lookout.

For starters, though, they should definitely hire KARAKARA's translator again, if they're open.