How do you think we should identify our game?

[beerbrew]

Hi guys,

Sorry, been away for a couple of days. Programming and stuff. So, I'm back, and here's a fun question I have for you guys:

If you were in our shoes, how do you think we should communicate to potential readers/players about something like our game, The Ramen Prince?

A light discussion if you will, I'm preparing virtual tea and coffee... and I'm curious as to what western VNs readers feel about this.

As you can see, the dilemma is many: the market is small, fragmented, and quite niche, and there are many experienced competitors from all fronts. and there's of course, limited budget. And then there are readers who already have strong preferences and taste. Some very strong already, and have a preference for very high quality materials such as art.

We could've gone with just sex, but that would put us in the league of porn games, which we don't exactly want to peg ourselves in as we know we can do more. We could've also gone with just putting up something with a good story without any mature stuff in it, but that's a very difficult and maybe risky route in terms of investments. So we decided for this game, that we wanted both a good story, and good, proper mature content - both to be enjoyed. It's a game that has the sex revolving around the story and vice versa, think of a binary star spinning each other around. There's substance that will tell you it's not a porn game, and it's not exactly a game you grabbed for the sole purpose of getting off (although we aim to make this satisfying as well). Going by both routes however, has its own risks, such as exposing us to compete in both genres - not just the story, but the mature aspect of it, too. Granted we're still the early stages of game development, a number of these game elements will go through evolutions and upgrades if you will, such as the art aspect, and we'll probably follow a closer style to Japanese anime treatment when the opportunity arises.

We could've also gone with the Sakura route - more ecchi titillation until you can't stand it, but that's a couple of notches ecchi/hentai than story.

What do you think? Given the equal treatment to both the adult entertainment and story aspect of the game, is this a hindrance? Should we focus on telling players it's both, or focus on one or the other?

Also take into consideration that it's a VN that's identifiable closer to the western audience due to the writing style.

If you want to check it out before writing what's on your mind, just click on my sig below, that'll take you to our Patreon page for the latest version.

PS: There's a big difference between the sexy scenes of the homeless and the ninja girl (ninja girl's 2nd scene onwards is newer) since we've been wracking our heads on improving this aspect of the game after feedback from our players these past few weeks. But if you guys can give me some feedback about these newer scenes, we'd love to hear them as we're still improving them.

 

PS #2: If you're wondering what's up next, we're working on a new character route, one with a kink. And although this is a kink and you'd think of some kinky porn material, the subject was well researched before being applied to the character's story.

[Kaguya]

I'd talk about the H. Not because I have any preference for it myself, as I tend to find the combination kinda annoying and would rather my story-focused VNs have only story and my H games to have overwhelming quantities of  H, but because of the stigma kinda attached to sex scenes.

The reasoning behind it is that if you talk about your game's great story and say that it also has H, presumably the story-focused crowd won't want to have that much to do with it, since they probably just have better options. Selling story is tough. The H might actually be a minus for a lot of people, and even if it's not, it doesn't actually grant you any edge here.

If you sell the H first, then I think people will get interested if they think your heroines are cute no matter what, and I think that's probably safer and will be better for you.

Still, this is all speculation and I could be way off the mark and all that stuff.

[beerbrew]

4 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I'd talk about the H. Not because I have any preference for it myself, as I tend to find the combination kinda annoying and would rather my story-focused VNs have only story and my H games to have overwhelming quantities of  H, but because of the stigma kinda attached to sex scenes.

The reasoning behind it is that if you talk about your game's great story and say that it also has H, presumably the story-focused crowd won't want to have that much to do with it, since they probably just have better options. Selling story is tough. The H might actually be a minus for a lot of people, and even if it's not, it doesn't actually grant you any edge here.

If you sell the H first, then I think people will get interested if they think your heroines are cute no matter what, and I think that's probably safer and will be better for you.

Still, this is all speculation and I could be way off the mark and all that stuff.

A logical observation! I suppose, you're a guy right? Have you tried this: You know those weird head massagers that look like steel wire fingers you hmm.. "rub" on your head and you feel all ecstatic, climaxing even? If you have a girl hmm.. go down on you, and have her rub you with that on your head, our brains cannot handle two sensations on both heads at once and will only register one of them. One part of your body will feel numb. Off tangent analogy, but I get what you're saying here. But do try this trick out... Haha!

[Hayashi]

I do believe that what makes a VN good usually will be the plot that it offers, I read for amazing plot and stories, if I need fapping material I would move onto ero-anime. Or at least, deliver what was meant to be delivered.

Semi-Rant

Let's also talk about the western market always complaining about 18+ patch, release date and all that drama. Keep in mind that many JP products are made solely "For Sale in Japan only" and thus the West was not the original target market. So don't complain if you are getting 80% of a VN with cut H content. Either wait or man up and pick up some textbooks and learn the language.

[beerbrew]

@kaguya - Another valid observation: Even when guys read all these technical reviews about tech products and what not, at the end of the day, the moment before they hand over their credit cards, it's not about what their heads calculated, it reverts back to basic human emotions that drive the purchase.

[beerbrew]

3 minutes ago, Kiso said:

I do believe that what makes a VN good usually will be the plot that it offers, I read for amazing plot and stories, if I need fapping material I would move onto ero-anime. Or at least, deliver what was meant to be delivered.

Semi-Rant

Let's also talk about the western market always complaining about 18+ patch, release date and all that drama. Keep in mind that many JP products are made solely "For Sale in Japan only" and thus the West was not the original target market. So don't complain if you are getting 80% of a VN with cut H content. Either wait or man up and pick up some textbooks and learn the language.

I read a Japanese VN reader poll from rocketnews24 that a good number rated story as being 50% of what they're looking for in a VN, but this is the Japanese market we're talking about. Still vague considering there's so much niche of a subniche there, so we don't even know what "quality" story is to them, but ok... haha ok...

The general vibe I'm getting in this forum, is that most readers here prefer Japanese-style VNs, period. Much like an audience that prefers JRPGs. Is this an accurate observation?

[Hayashi]

4 minutes ago, beerbrew said:

I read a Japanese VN reader poll from rocketnews24 that a good number rated story as being 50% of what they're looking for in a VN, but this is the Japanese market we're talking about. Still vague considering there's so much niche of a subniche there, so we don't even know what "quality" story is to them, but ok... haha ok...

The general vibe I'm getting in this forum, is that most readers here prefer Japanese-style VNs, period. Much like an audience that prefers JRPGs. Is this an accurate observation?

Well for me, I hate OELVN 100% and will never touch them, seems to be a waste of time to me after Katawa whatever that was.

And I only read untranslated VNs, I might just fit the observation. And in regards to what Japanese people look for in a VN, simply see each year's Moege Hr Awards and you will see the trend. 

[Kaguya]

6 minutes ago, beerbrew said:

The general vibe I'm getting in this forum, is that most readers here prefer Japanese-style VNs, period. Much like an audience that prefers JRPGs. Is this an accurate observation?

That would be accurate, yes. You'll probably have better luck with people interested in OELVNs at lemmasoft or something. Still, we do have our fair share of people like that around, so of course, feel free to ask. The answers you'll get will likely be more than a bit jaded by people who mostly play japanese VNs, though - me being no exception to that. 

[beerbrew]

2 minutes ago, Kiso said:

Well for me, I hate OELVN 100% and will never touch them, seems to be a waste of time to me after Katawa whatever that was.

And I only read untranslated VNs, I might just fit the observation. And in regards to what Japanese people look for in a VN, simply see each year's Moege Hr Awards and you will see the trend. 

Observation noted haha!

[beerbrew]

4 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

That would be accurate, yes. You'll probably have better luck with people interested in OELVNs at lemmasoft or something. Still, we do have our fair share of people like that around, so of course, feel free to ask. The answers you'll get will likely be more than a bit jaded by people who mostly play japanese VNs, though - me being no exception to that. 

I'm familiar with the feeling ;). Like how some of us prefer Japanese cars over Korean ones and will never touch the latter lol! But how much of the player base is like this? I have a feeling that there's a good chunk of the western player base that only entertain Japanese VNs and nothing else. I take it our game has more chance with casual players in the mobile space?

[Kaguya]

Just now, beerbrew said:

I'm familiar with the feeling ;). Like how some of us prefer Japanese cars over Korean ones and will never touch the latter lol! But how much of the player base is like this? I have a feeling that there's a good chunk of the western player base that only entertain Japanese VNs. I take it our game has more chance with casual players in the mobile space?

The mobile space is a dark, unknown universe to me, but presumably, yes. I know otome VNs thrive there, but not much else. 

At the very least, around here, I'd say that 90%+ of people on fuwa only really read japanese VNs, with maybe one or two OELVNs like katawa shoujo in there. 

[beerbrew]

5 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

The mobile space is a dark, unknown universe to me, but presumably, yes. I know otome VNs thrive there, but not much else. 

At the very least, around here, I'd say that 90%+ of people on fuwa only really read japanese VNs, with maybe one or two OELVNs like katawa shoujo in there. 

Hmm..

Here's another question. What if you played a VN, you presumed to be Japanese-made. You liked it, and later found out it isn't Japanese-made, but a western one. Basically take everything the Japanese is good at - the graphics, the sounds, the overall treatment, but has a western direction, namely the underlying story. What would you feel about that kind of trojan horse? Would you say - "yah, I kinda like it"; or "meh"; or "eww, never!" ?

[Kaguya]

Just now, beerbrew said:

Hmm..

Here's another question. What if you played a VN, you presumed to be Japanese-made. You liked it, and later found out it isn't Japanese-made, but a western one. Basically take everything the Japanese is good at - the graphics, the sounds, the overall treatment, but has a western direction, namely the underlying story. What would you feel about that kind of trojan horse?

I don't put any particular value on the VNs being japanese, so nothing. 

I just avoid works with low-quality artwork, music and no voice acting (or even worse, amateur voice acting.)

If you're presenting me a release on par with a commercial jp VN, then I'll try it. Since english VNs are normally indie works who fail at most of those categories, I don't read them. 

After all, if I just wanted a good story, I'd read a book. I'm actually quite picky with all aspects of my VNs, which often OELVNs fail to deliver on, from my experience. 

[beerbrew]

3 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I don't put any particular value on the VNs being japanese, so nothing. 

I just avoid works with low-quality artwork, music and no voice acting (or even worse, amateur voice acting.)

If you're presenting me a release on par with a commercial jp VN, then I'll try it. Since english VNs are normally indie works who fail at most of those categories, I don't read them. 

After all, if I just wanted a good story, I'd read a book. I'm actually quite picky with all aspects of my VNs, which often OELVNs fail to deliver on, from my experience. 

Hmm noted! How much of the VN players do you think have this level of expectation already?

[Kaguya]

6 minutes ago, beerbrew said:

Hmm noted! How much of the VN players do you think have this level of expectation already?

As a whole, I don't know, because I'm really out of touch with the steam community.

Still, looking around the forums and reddit, most of them, I'd say. It's part of why I think you should focus on the H when advertising. 

[littleshogun]

What kind of answer that should I give here I wonder? Maybe you should try to promote it as mature game if you want to had some attention from eroge player, or just put some fanservice there if you want to enter it to Steam because after all most male would be interested to fanservice. Either way, what's mattered after seeing the reception that you should work it between promotion material (Fan service CG for example) and the story if you want to focus on the story here ie don't make the fanservice and story felt disjointed there. Once again good luck on your VN project there, and if my answer didn't clear feel free to ask here.

[beerbrew]

5 hours ago, littleshogun said:

What kind of answer that should I give here I wonder? Maybe you should try to promote it as mature game if you want to had some attention from eroge player, or just put some fanservice there if you want to enter it to Steam because after all most male would be interested to fanservice. Either way, what's mattered after seeing the reception that you should work it between promotion material (Fan service CG for example) and the story if you want to focus on the story here ie don't make the fanservice and story felt disjointed there. Once again good luck on your VN project there, and if my answer didn't clear feel free to ask here.

Thanks! Hmm.. That seems to be the best way to go about it. Show more sexy stuff. Unless you got a ton of capital to tell the rest of the competition to screw their skin tactics lol